Christian baptism is complete ritual that accomplishes what it signifies
Washing away of sin
new creation
Regeneration
Initiation into the new covenant
Member of Christ and his church
infused with sanctifying grace
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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Christian baptism is complete ritual that accomplishes what it signifies
Washing away of sin
new creation
Regeneration
Initiation into the new covenant
Member of Christ and his church
infused with sanctifying grace
Christian baptism
In the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit
puts us in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with the blessed trinity
Who told you so?
Here’s scriptures that proves otherwise.
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Tong
R4020
Everything involving God is extraordinary. Who knows if that was the only time God did that. The point is, the teaching that “You can’t receive the spirit without baptism” is false and not coming from the scriptures.
Tong
R4021
Christ died for a specific people only !
Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Paul stated that Christ died our sins according to scripture 1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
In other words, the OT scriptures gives us the pattern of what it means to Identify whose sins Christ died for.
As the High Priest and things pertaining to God, His death was confined to making reconciliation for the sins of the People.
In the greek it reads :
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:
He specifically was to make the reconciliation or propitiation, for the sins, not just for all sin in general, but for the sins of the people or "tou laou" The People, that is a specific people, which is Identified back up in Vs 16 as the Seed of Abraham.
The High Priest in the OT was a Type of the Work of Christ, and on the day of Atonement, the reconciliation or propitiation was restricted to the sins of the People Israel, God's Chosen People, and all other nations of people were excluded. The Atonement was not for the egyptians, the assyrians or any other races of people.
The Office of High Priest was never of service to all people every where, but only to a specific designated people.
Thats why Jesus when praying what is called His High Priestly Prayer in Jn 17, He makes it clear that He was not praying for the world of men in General Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
This Prayer was in conjunction with His impending High Priest offering of Himself Jn 17:19-20
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Now who are they that shall also believe on Him through their word ? Why it will be the other Sheep that He has Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
They hear His voice through the Apostles, and all others who shall not believe, its because they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Christ's acting and dying as a High Priest never changes, its always according to a High Priest that He performed and is performing the Work of God, even now it is written of Him Heb 5:10
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Now what him ? Who is or was Melchisedec ? He first comes on the scene in the sacred History book here Gen 14:18
18 And Mulched king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
He was King of Salem and priest of the Most High God. Now was He King of the whole World ? No, He specifically the King of a particular place, Salem which may have been Jerusalem, but the point being, He was an Priest and King for an Specific country and people, for the Most High God, and Christ is made an Priest in that Fashion.
Everything about Christ dying as an High Priest and Offering, makes His Death confined to a specific People and not the whole world of men individually, even though that specific people for which He died " The Seed of Abraham" it is scattered world wide and not confined to the land of Israel, but its within all Nations Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.520
Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Paul stated that Christ died our sins according to scripture 1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
In other words, the OT scriptures gives us the pattern of what it means to Identify whose sins Christ died for.
As the High Priest and things pertaining to God, His death was confined to making reconciliation for the sins of the People.
In the greek it reads :
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:
He specifically was to make the reconciliation or propitiation, for the sins, not just for all sin in general, but for the sins of the people or "tou laou" The People, that is a specific people, which is Identified back up in Vs 16 as the Seed of Abraham.
The High Priest in the OT was a Type of the Work of Christ, and on the day of Atonement, the reconciliation or propitiation was restricted to the sins of the People Israel, God's Chosen People, and all other nations of people were excluded. The Atonement was not for the egyptians, the assyrians or any other races of people.
The Office of High Priest was never of service to all people every where, but only to a specific designated people.
Thats why Jesus when praying what is called His High Priestly Prayer in Jn 17, He makes it clear that He was not praying for the world of men in General Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
This Prayer was in conjunction with His impending High Priest offering of Himself Jn 17:19-20
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Now who are they that shall also believe on Him through their word ? Why it will be the other Sheep that He has Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
They hear His voice through the Apostles, and all others who shall not believe, its because they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Christ's acting and dying as a High Priest never changes, its always according to a High Priest that He performed and is performing the Work of God, even now it is written of Him Heb 5:10
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Now what him ? Who is or was Melchisedec ? He first comes on the scene in the sacred History book here Gen 14:18
18 And Mulched king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
He was King of Salem and priest of the Most High God. Now was He King of the whole World ? No, He specifically the King of a particular place, Salem which may have been Jerusalem, but the point being, He was an Priest and King for an Specific country and people, for the Most High God, and Christ is made an Priest in that Fashion.
Everything about Christ dying as an High Priest and Offering, makes His Death confined to a specific People and not the whole world of men individually, even though that specific people for which He died " The Seed of Abraham" it is scattered world wide and not confined to the land of Israel, but its within all Nations Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.520
I do not believe those verses answer my question.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matt 16:18
"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt 18:18
What is normal and what is extraordinary for God?
How much like God are those who make up His Church? Are they all at the bottom or normal or extraordinary? Are those even the right choices?
Did they not all start out dead? Having come to Life, did they not begin as babies on milk? What in normal for a baby and what is normal for a mature believer in Christ?
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1
Do you think reasonable equals normal? What then would be extraordinary? Someone higher than the doorkeeper?
"For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness." Psalm 84:10
matt 16:18-19 matt 18:18 Jn 20:21-23
Peter the apostles and their successors have the authority of Christ
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
Well I have already been there and done that. I was hopeful, but only God gives the increase!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Rejection of scripture IS rejection of Christ . HOW TRUE THAT TRULY IS .
Now go ye and examine the RCC and you will find out why i wont JOIN THE RCC .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
While i was never there , but please dont think that means i was anything good , i have talked to a few bishops and deacons of said church .
And researched a huge book written by a STILL praticing catholic . And my only words to those in the RCC , Are COME YE OUT
and let us follow JESUS CHRIST in spirit and in truth . But then i say that too many a protestant church as well .
A person can effectively be living a lie in even the best of church groups because he listens too much to himself and his human leaders while failing to communicate with God.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Many do . They trust in men as though they are God . And wont test what their leaders teach against the Words of God .
This small babe simply says , TRUST THOU IN GOD my friends . And test any man , MYSELF INCLUDED , and do so always .
For man is not infallible . BUT GOD , HIS WORDS , THEY ARE INFALLIBLE . TRUST IN GOD and CLING TO CHRIST
That would be this simple mans message . Be as small children , who though they be not wise scholars
THEY SIMPLY TRUST IN THE LIVING GOD , TRUSTING IN CHRIST JESUS and EVERY WORD HE EVER SAID . THAT alone is who i can point folks too .
NOW LET THE KING BE PRAISED MY FRIEND . YES INDEED . JUST HOLD ONTO TO THE PROMISES OF OUR GLORIOUS LORD .
HOPING IN HIM TO THE END . LET the LORD be praised my friend .
Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity
Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity
Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I have given more examples than swiss cheese has holes .
But here i will give one yet again . Prayers to saints and mary , Yeah its blasphemous .
PRAY TO GOD IN JESUS NAME .
Heb 2:17 Reconciliation for the sins of the People !
Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Another scripture that speaks to the definite atonement of Christ is this one. This is one of a great many texts that teaches that the death of Christ was not for the sins of all mankind without exception, but that it was explicitly for a definite people. The definite people is the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
And all mankind without exception is not the seed of Abraham !
For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.NIV
For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
For death was not authorized over the Angels, but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.ABIE
It cannot be made more plainer whom He came to rescue !
The Seed of Abraham is who is meant in Vs 17 as being the People whom sins were reconciled for or propitiated.
In the greek it reads :
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:
Both the sins and the people have the definite article, indicating He made propitiation for definite sins and a definite people, just like the Type High Priest Aaron on the day of atonement.
Also notice the word reconciliation here in Heb 2:17, its the word ἱλάσκομαι here its a verb which means:
I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.
However, its noun form hilasmos is used here 1 Jn 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Jn 4:10
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Hence with comparing scripture with scripture, Christ's Propitiation sacrifice was only for the World of the Seed of Abraham.
That is, The Seed of Abraham within the jewish state and within the other nations of the World, remember God told Abraham this Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
The seed of Abraham meant in Heb 2:16 is not the physical seed of Abraham, or his descendent's according to the flesh [See Rom 9:8], but its Abraham's Spiritual Seed of Promise, which does include people from among the ethnic jews as well as from other ethnicities or gentiles.
His atoning as Per Heb 2:17 was for the sins of the people, and not for the sins of all mankind without exception. Yes He was the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the World Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
But that world is limited to the Seed of Abraham, which Seed was world wide as in all Nations of the world.537
Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Another scripture that speaks to the definite atonement of Christ is this one. This is one of a great many texts that teaches that the death of Christ was not for the sins of all mankind without exception, but that it was explicitly for a definite people. The definite people is the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
And all mankind without exception is not the seed of Abraham !
For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.NIV
For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
For death was not authorized over the Angels, but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.ABIE
It cannot be made more plainer whom He came to rescue !
The Seed of Abraham is who is meant in Vs 17 as being the People whom sins were reconciled for or propitiated.
In the greek it reads :
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:
Both the sins and the people have the definite article, indicating He made propitiation for definite sins and a definite people, just like the Type High Priest Aaron on the day of atonement.
Also notice the word reconciliation here in Heb 2:17, its the word ἱλάσκομαι here its a verb which means:
I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.
However, its noun form hilasmos is used here 1 Jn 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Jn 4:10
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Hence with comparing scripture with scripture, Christ's Propitiation sacrifice was only for the World of the Seed of Abraham.
That is, The Seed of Abraham within the jewish state and within the other nations of the World, remember God told Abraham this Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
The seed of Abraham meant in Heb 2:16 is not the physical seed of Abraham, or his descendent's according to the flesh [See Rom 9:8], but its Abraham's Spiritual Seed of Promise, which does include people from among the ethnic jews as well as from other ethnicities or gentiles.
His atoning as Per Heb 2:17 was for the sins of the people, and not for the sins of all mankind without exception. Yes He was the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the World Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
But that world is limited to the Seed of Abraham, which Seed was world wide as in all Nations of the world.537
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