Some questions

[PooZy]

Ok so i have some internal quarrals. Firstly, free will.

If we all truly have free will, that means we can do what ever we wanted at any time and God would have no control over what decisions we made etc. Also, God is all-knowing and all-powerful. Seeing as he created the universe etc, he must've known exactly what was going to happen for the rest of time until any such culmination or judgement day or whatever. This means since before he even created anything, he knew exactly what every tiny decision and every tiny thought every one of us would ever have. Surely that means we don't have free will. We are not a seperate entity from god at all, because if he really was all powerful and all knowing that would be impossible.

Does this mean free will is an illusion? :S

Secondaly is science. Obviously the knowledge of science has excelled rapidly in very recent years as mans knowledge of the cosmos has improved. I know a lot about current theories but increasingly the universe's environment seems more and more impossible for a god as we would see it to exist. The main point is the logical error in an entity being all powerful which is in itself a paradox.

But then again that makes me more confused, maybe God isn't actually all powerful, we just see him that way because of the vast amount of power he holds compared to us and we have nothing to measure it against. This would mean we could have freewill, but it would warp current beliefs about god.

Lastly is the exploration of the universe. Why would God create all these other galaxies if he is only interested in Earth? Sure makes us seem insignificant. Who knows, maybe God has created many worlds and has pooled them in a single reality. Heck is boggles the mind to think about.


I know some of you would tell me to just have faith, but if you have blind faith and are unwilling to question then i believe that shows a lack of interest in the subject or an internal doubt which is in danger of being discovered. Hence i think questioning everything we know to be the best way to strengthen religion.

 

[Butch5]

Ok so i have some internal quarrals. Firstly, free will.

If we all truly have free will, that means we can do what ever we wanted at any time and God would have no control over what decisions we made etc. Also, God is all-knowing and all-powerful. Seeing as he created the universe etc, he must've known exactly what was going to happen for the rest of time until any such culmination or judgement day or whatever. This means since before he even created anything, he knew exactly what every tiny decision and every tiny thought every one of us would ever have. Surely that means we don't have free will. We are not a seperate entity from god at all, because if he really was all powerful and all knowing that would be impossible.

Does this mean free will is an illusion? :S

How would God knowing all things thwart man's free will?

Secondaly is science. Obviously the knowledge of science has excelled rapidly in very recent years as mans knowledge of the cosmos has improved. I know a lot about current theories but increasingly the universe's environment seems more and more impossible for a god as we would see it to exist. The main point is the logical error in an entity being all powerful which is in itself a paradox.

But then again that makes me more confused, maybe God isn't actually all powerful, we just see him that way because of the vast amount of power he holds compared to us and we have nothing to measure it against. This would mean we could have freewill, but it would warp current beliefs about god.

Are you relying on the testimony of men for this science? How many times have they been wrong in the past?

Lastly is the exploration of the universe. Why would God create all these other galaxies if he is only interested in Earth? Sure makes us seem insignificant. Who knows, maybe God has created many worlds and has pooled them in a single reality. Heck is boggles the mind to think about.


I know some of you would tell me to just have faith, but if you have blind faith and are unwilling to question then i believe that shows a lack of interest in the subject or an internal doubt which is in danger of being discovered. Hence i think questioning everything we know to be the best way to strengthen religion.

Perhaps there is other life, or maybe God put all those celestial bodies there because He intended to say to Abraham,

Genesis 15:5-6 ( KJV )
And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

 

[aspen]

Ok so i have some internal quarrals. Firstly, free will.

If we all truly have free will, that means we can do what ever we wanted at any time and God would have no control over what decisions we made etc. Also, God is all-knowing and all-powerful. Seeing as he created the universe etc, he must've known exactly what was going to happen for the rest of time until any such culmination or judgement day or whatever. This means since before he even created anything, he knew exactly what every tiny decision and every tiny thought every one of us would ever have. Surely that means we don't have free will. We are not a seperate entity from god at all, because if he really was all powerful and all knowing that would be impossible.

Does this mean free will is an illusion? :S

Secondaly is science. Obviously the knowledge of science has excelled rapidly in very recent years as mans knowledge of the cosmos has improved. I know a lot about current theories but increasingly the universe's environment seems more and more impossible for a god as we would see it to exist. The main point is the logical error in an entity being all powerful which is in itself a paradox.

But then again that makes me more confused, maybe God isn't actually all powerful, we just see him that way because of the vast amount of power he holds compared to us and we have nothing to measure it against. This would mean we could have freewill, but it would warp current beliefs about god.

Lastly is the exploration of the universe. Why would God create all these other galaxies if he is only interested in Earth? Sure makes us seem insignificant. Who knows, maybe God has created many worlds and has pooled them in a single reality. Heck is boggles the mind to think about.


I know some of you would tell me to just have faith, but if you have blind faith and are unwilling to question then i believe that shows a lack of interest in the subject or an internal doubt which is in danger of being discovered. Hence i think questioning everything we know to be the best way to strengthen religion.

These are great questions!! I will give you my opinion as soon as I can.

blessings

 

[aspen]

Here are some of my thoughts:


1. Free Will is not a consequence of the Fall - Adam and Eve had free will in the Garden.

2. We are like fish in an aquarium - we have freewill, as far as our thoughts, feelings and behavior are concerned, but our choices are limited by our environment.

3. God is only limited by His definition, which, unlike us, He has chosen for Himself (therefore His is all-powerful). An example, might be God has chosen to be Good, therefore He cannot sin.

4. God appears as a paradox to us because we are constrained by time, space, and creation.

5. One of the consequences of the Fall is dualistic thinking - we have the tendency to make judgments in a primitive manner (we were never created to make judgments; we took on the responsibility when we ate the fruit), therefore, we can only know God using reason in a limited way. After reason ends, we rely on emotion to know God, but this is limited as well. Our final method to know God is experience.

6. I tend to believe that God forgave Adam and Eve instantaneously in the Garden, but chose to stretch out time in order to teach us how our actions affected Him and our relationship with Him and so that we could learn how valuable we are to God and how valuable His gift of love truly is. Some of the lessons we have been taught so far include God's omnipotence (OT); our inability to relate to God without His intervention; how His heart was broken (Jesus on the Cross) when we disobeyed Him in the Garden; and finally, an entirely new skill/experience - one we would have never known apart from the Fall - Forgiveness.

7. God knows the ending of History because it has already happened and yet, has not happened.....we are standing before God at the judgment, right now, and Adam and Eve are eating the fruit right now. Time is the illusion, not freewill.

8. Scientists are great at studying the inside of our aquarium and even speculating about the confines of the aquarium from the outside, but science is not built to operate beyond reason. Since most of reality is beyond our reductionistic language and our material world, science is not the best vehicle for knowing reality.

9. God is an expert on human behavior and how it affects the rest of His creation - yet He has chosen to allow His creation a life of it's own, therefore we are operating under the direct supervision of our creator, rather than acting out a play. We are allowed the freedom to make choices limited by our environment, yet outside of our design (we were originally created to love, yet we were allowed to also work outside our design by making judgments - although God was not pleased with our choice.)

10. God is using our free will to help us regain what we have lost - we are now invited to learn from the Holy Spirit to love once more. His justification (forgiveness) and sanctification (teaching us to be citizen's of Heaven by re-teaching us how to love) are dependent on our freewill to choose His plan for us. If we do not choose His plan, we will remain unredeemed and eventually be abandoned by Him and our neighbors.

 

[aspen]

8. Scientists are great at studying the inside of our aquarium and even speculating about the confines of the aquarium from the outside, but science is not built to operate beyond reason. Since most of reality is beyond our reductionistic language and our material world, science is not the best vehicle for knowing reality. Most importantly, since science is under the assumption that it is capable of studying the extent of reality, it is naturally going to dismiss the notion of God and therefore make claims against His existence.

 

[PooZy]

Here are some of my thoughts:


1. Free Will is not a consequence of the Fall - Adam and Eve had free will in the Garden.

2. We are like fish in an aquarium - we have freewill, as far as our thoughts, feelings and behavior are concerned, but our choices are limited by our environment.

3. God is only limited by His definition, which, unlike us, He has chosen for Himself (therefore His is all-powerful). An example, might be God has chosen to be Good, therefore He cannot sin.

4. God appears as a paradox to us because we are constrained by time, space, and creation.

5. One of the consequences of the Fall is dualistic thinking - we have the tendency to make judgments in a primitive manner (we were never created to make judgments; we took on the responsibility when we ate the fruit), therefore, we can only know God using reason in a limited way. After reason ends, we rely on emotion to know God, but this is limited as well. Our final method to know God is experience.

6. I tend to believe that God forgave Adam and Eve instantaneously in the Garden, but chose to stretch out time in order to teach us how our actions affected Him and our relationship with Him and so that we could learn how valuable we are to God and how valuable His gift of love truly is. Some of the lessons we have been taught so far include God's omnipotence (OT); our inability to relate to God without His intervention; how His heart was broken (Jesus on the Cross) when we disobeyed Him in the Garden; and finally, an entirely new skill/experience - one we would have never known apart from the Fall - Forgiveness.

7. God knows the ending of History because it has already happened and yet, has not happened.....we are standing before God at the judgment, right now, and Adam and Eve are eating the fruit right now. Time is the illusion, not freewill.

8. Scientists are great at studying the inside of our aquarium and even speculating about the confines of the aquarium from the outside, but science is not built to operate beyond reason. Since most of reality is beyond our reductionistic language and our material world, science is not the best vehicle for knowing reality.

9. God is an expert on human behavior and how it affects the rest of His creation - yet He has chosen to allow His creation a life of it's own, therefore we are operating under the direct supervision of our creator, rather than acting out a play. We are allowed the freedom to make choices limited by our environment, yet outside of our design (we were originally created to love, yet we were allowed to also work outside our design by making judgments - although God was not pleased with our choice.)

10. God is using our free will to help us regain what we have lost - we are now invited to learn from the Holy Spirit to love once more. His justification (forgiveness) and sanctification (teaching us to be citizen's of Heaven by re-teaching us how to love) are dependent on our freewill to choose His plan for us. If we do not choose His plan, we will remain unredeemed and eventually be abandoned by Him and our neighbors.

Good arguments there. Just some thoughts:


4. Time is a dimension so we can bunch that all in as we are confined by space. The more you look into the nature of the universe beyond the dimensions our matter is confined to the more abstract it becomes. I seriously believe God couldn't possible look like we do as it says in the Bible because his nature would have to be so different for him to function. This leads to the questions such as what is God?

- He can't be a force because forces are defined by force-carrier particles such as bosons (and the possible exception of superfluids).
- He can't be a physical being in any sense of the word because to have mass would limit his power, and if god is to be all powerful then this would restrain that.

This means the only real answer is that God must be part of the fabric of the universe itself in its most abstract form. Abstract to a point where it can only be represented through complex mathematics and would not be recognisable as God. (personally I feel this is where god is hidden).

 

[aspen]

Good arguments there. Just some thoughts:


4. Time is a dimension so we can bunch that all in as we are confined by space. The more you look into the nature of the universe beyond the dimensions our matter is confined to the more abstract it becomes. I seriously believe God couldn't possible look like we do as it says in the Bible because his nature would have to be so different for him to function. This leads to the questions such as what is God?

- He can't be a force because forces are defined by force-carrier particles such as bosons (and the possible exception of superfluids).
- He can't be a physical being in any sense of the word because to have mass would limit his power, and if god is to be all powerful then this would restrain that.

This means the only real answer is that God must be part of the fabric of the universe itself in its most abstract form. Abstract to a point where it can only be represented through complex mathematics and would not be recognisable as God. (personally I feel this is where god is hidden).

I think God is outside His creation. I tend to believe that we are created in His image, only in our ability to relate to one another and Him. I doubt it is possible for us to know what God actually consists of, but it is fun to think about!