Outspoken Conjecture

[MatthewG]

This video is an Outspoken Conjecture: Along with an update about some things viewed in the bible based on conjecture, with an objective goal for all to consider that we are all still imperfect.

What do you think about Conjecture?
Do you believe it is used with the bible a lot or a little bit?
Have you ever considered this before?

conjectural

con·jec·tur·al | \ kən-ˈjek-chə-rəl , -ˈjek-shrəl \
Definition of conjectural
1: of the nature of or involving or based on conjectureWithout evidence, his conclusions are only conjectural.
2: given to conjectures… a conjectural critic …— Samuel Johnson

a matter of conjecture
noun phrase

Definition of a matter of conjecture
—used to say that something is based on an idea formed without proof or sufficient evidenceHer plans for the election are still a matter of conjecture.


How often do we all use Conjecture when it comes down to Christianity?


Thank you for viewing,
With love in Christ,
Matthew G.

 

[amadeus]

How often do we all use Conjecture when it comes down to Christianity?

Certainly one should, it seems to me, if a person really is a follower of Christ, have had a beginning that would have preceded any speculations or much [any?] outspoken conjecture.

Where were we before we met Jesus on 'our road to Damascus'? Where are we at the moment? Where does anyone begin?

"But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him." Heb 11:6

"And Jesus advanced in wisdom, and age, and grace with God and men." Luke 2:52

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.
We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known." I Cor 13:11-12

And so then walking in faith, what do we need to be seeing beyond our very next step as we move toward the Light, which is Jesus? If everything but our next step toward Him is in darkness, should we not be careful about shining our own lights as if they would bring it into clarity for us!

Could our own lights searching the things of God be considered as and treated like the strange fire offered by Nadab and Abihu? Could it not using even the Bible itself as something to understood by the logical ways of our own minds be a strange fire to God?

If we are speculating then let us be certain that we recognize that and that those to whom we are communicating also recognize that. Do we know the difference really between faith and knowledge when it comes to God and the things of God? If we do, how did we gain such knowledge?

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity/love, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2

 

[marks]

The closer we stick to exactly what is written, the less we will engage in conjecture.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Certainly one should, it seems to me, if a person really is a follower of Christ, have had a beginning that would have preceded any speculations or much [any?] outspoken conjecture.

Where were we before we met Jesus on 'our road to Damascus'? Where are we at the moment? Where does anyone begin?

"But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him." Heb 11:6

"And Jesus advanced in wisdom, and age, and grace with God and men." Luke 2:52

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.
We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known." I Cor 13:11-12

And so then walking in faith, what do we need to be seeing beyond our very next step as we move toward the Light, which is Jesus? If everything but our next step toward Him is in darkness, should we not be careful about shining our own lights as if they would bring it into clarity for us!

Could our own lights searching the things of God be considered as and treated like the strange fire offered by Nadab and Abihu? Could it not using even the Bible itself as something to understood by the logical ways of our own minds be a strange fire to God?

If we are speculating then let us be certain that we recognize that and that those to whom we are communicating also recognize that. Do we know the difference really between faith and knowledge when it comes to God and the things of God? If we do, how did we gain such knowledge?

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity/love, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2

Hello Amadeus thank you for adding more scripture to look at here.

Can you sum the mass of all of these things in what you are saying?

It is always God through us by abiding in the vine in which light is shown by ~ The holy spirit / spirit of Christ / spirit of God working in and through our hearts. That first is an inward working from God working n the heart of an individual in which they start reflecting more upon who they are as a person and in consideration start looking towards God for help. Which leads more to a person choosing to repent - to change their mind about the previous direction they were going. Now they are going in a direction in looking forward in hope in Christ Jesus of the life, death, burial and resurrection.

You are right by the scripture without faith it is impossible to please God; but does that meant hat God is displeased by another person decision or does God say okay if this person will not believe ; I desire to not interfere but will still be here for them if they desire me to be in their life for God is faithful because people are not faithful. God loves all people.

You also share scriptures about Maturing in faith and how that is important for a persons growth growing in faith and in spirit worshiping God in spirit and truth, having faith and love for God first, and others.

You also mentioned that we should not shine our own lights; making it out to be ourselves who are the one who is the bringer of light. However it is God from with-in us, the spirit of Christ, spirit of God with-in you as a believer that is where light is founded and comes from is above from Heaven by and through being born again and having a relationship with God and allowing Him to work in and through you and not hiding the light that is with-in you which is the inner new creation of the new spiritual man/woman the inner heart and spirit of your new born again life in which you abide in Christ and live worshiping God in spirit and in truth as you walk along in faith and trusting God in your own individual life.

 

[MatthewG]

The word outspoken itself has an interesting meaning.


Have you ever seen the definition of it or understand what it means?


Here is a look from Webster Thesaurus about the word outspoken.

http://[URL]https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/outspoken

[/URL]


Synonyms & Antonyms of outspoken

free in expressing one's true feelings and opinions

• a newspaper columnist who has been very outspoken on a number of controversial issues

Synonyms for outspoken

• candid,
• direct,
• forthcoming,
• forthright,
• foursquare,
• frank,
• free-spoken,
• freehearted,
• honest,
• open,
• openhearted,
• out-front,
• plain,
• plainspoken,
• straight,
• straightforward,
• unguarded,
• unreserved,
• up-front

 

[amadeus]

Hello Amadeus thank you for adding more scripture to look at here.

Can you sum the mass of all of these things in what you are saying?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" Jerem 10:23

Who knows the season and time for each us for each step we are to take in our walk with God?

It is always God through us by abiding in the vine in which light is shown by ~ The holy spirit / spirit of Christ / spirit of God working in and through our hearts. That first is an inward working from God working n the heart of an individual in which they start reflecting more upon who they are as a person and in consideration start looking towards God for help. Which leads more to a person choosing to repent - to change their mind about the previous direction they were going. Now they are going in a direction in looking forward in hope in Christ Jesus of the life, death, burial and resurrection.

Yes, the Spirit on the inside of us is there then to lead us.

Where I am on this is that once a person has received the gift of Holy Spirit as per Acts 2, he then must continue to partake of the flesh and blood of Jesus [John 6:53]. Simply, the flesh is what we consume when we read or hear the Bible. [I am not saying that God may not feed us from other places. Lots of good Bible students know the Bible however as Satan knew the Bible when he went with Jesus [Matt 4]up to a the top of the temple and quoted from it.

The blood Jesus told us to drink was Not the red blood which spilled from his body of flesh on Calvary, but rather the Spirit shed abroad onto whosoever will beginning in Acts 2. That Blood was not red! That Blood for everyone and was the Life that Jesus brought, the Life for His Body, the Body of Christ. Jesus was only the Head of that Body.

Like Satan, when people quote from the scripture without the quickening Spirit, they are speaking empty words. Those words are like the physical body of Jesus on the cross before His Resurrection. They are dead.

You are right by the scripture without faith it is impossible to please God; but does that meant hat God is displeased by another person decision or does God say okay if this person will not believe ; I desire to not interfere but will still be here for them if they desire me to be in their life for God is faithful because people are not faithful. God loves all people.

The other person criticizing, may be right if he is speaking the truth and he is led by the Spirit in his criticism.

People without the Holy Spirit do speak and do rebuke. People with the Holy Spirit, sometimes [too often, I believe] are quenching the Spirit and speaking from their own mind rather than from the mind of God. This is why sometimes Jesus remained silent while at others he sharply rebuked people. Jesus was never speaking at people like that from his mind of flesh alone.... but

...Jesus never sinned. Jesus never straying from the will of His Father... even though he was tempted.

None of us started as Jesus did in his ministry without any sin history at all and without any bad habits formed still in need of correction. All of us were clean when we met the Lord and accepted Him, but we needed to decrease in ourselves and increase in Him [see John 3:30]

You also share scriptures about Maturing in faith and how that is important for a persons growth growing in faith and in spirit worshiping God in spirit and truth, having faith and love for God first, and others.

You also mentioned that we should not shine our own lights; making it out to be ourselves who are the one who is the bringer of light. However it is God from with-in us, the spirit of Christ, spirit of God with-in you as a believer that is where light is founded and comes from is above from Heaven by and through being born again and having a relationship with God and allowing Him to work in and through you and not hiding the light that is with-in you which is the inner new creation of the new spiritual man/woman the inner heart and spirit of your new born again life in which you abide in Christ and live worshiping God in spirit and in truth as you walk along in faith and trusting God in your own individual life.

People as they do approach God more closely become, I believe, more susceptible to a pride in their accomplishments. They, of course, get into trouble for that. What they did was surrender to the Holy Spirit more completely. God did the work in them as they allowed it. Alone, no man could do it:

"Pride cometh before destruction... before a fall." [Prov 16:18]
We must shine the Light given to us by God for that purpose, but the glory always belongs to Him! We are simply a willing vessel. God will reward us for that willingness, but we need to careful about applauding ourselves. Sometime we can only see the very next step. What lies beyond that remains unknown to us. God always knows where our next step is. We need to keep on paying attention and following His lead.

Sometimes, we cannot even surrender more completely alone. We want to and so then we ask Him for help:

"Ask. and it shall be given you..." [Matt 7:7]

 

[Wynona]

Personally, conjecture over the Bible is not what I prefer, especially in the context of ministry.

If someone is trying to instruct me, they are held to a higher standard. I expect them to take a biblical stance one way or the other based on what is written. Id prefer someone to be wrong and strong in their stance, like how I think you're wrong about people's eternal destinies.

When someone takes a firm stance, I can compare it to Scripture and sharpen my worldview.

We live in a flaky time where no one wants to offend anybody or step on anybody's toes. But we have to learn how to have civil disagreements and also deal with those who are uncivil in a Christlike way.

Some things are worth taking a strong stance on.

I try to let the Bible ruin my theology. For example, someone on here believes we can attain sinless perfection. At first, I didn't agree. But in Scripture, sinlessness is not this rare unobtainable thing but a goal to strive for with the help of God's Spirit. Jesus commanded his disciples to be perfect.

The Bible is always stricter on the areas of obedience and maturity than I would be. But I need the Bible to give me the strength to pursue righteousness and sanctification as a daily goal.

If you look at what popular teachers and preachers are saying, you get this idea that sin is this muck that sticks to you that there is no hope of getting away from. But is that what the Bible says?

I think some people are reading their system of thinking into the Scripture, rather than letting Scripture reorder they're thinking.

Unbelievers who die unsaved go to hell and then are bodily resurrected for judgment and then cast into the lake of fire.

This is not a belief I would have come up with. But we must grapple with things from Scripture.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Wynona,

Would like to tell you it is nice to listen to what you have to say and what you share in your insights here when it comes to Conjecture over the Bible is not what you prefer especially in the context of Ministry.

What do you think a Ministry would be required to do if it was to go by the standards solely found with-in scriptures themselves? To me when it comes to Ministry; (Criticism). Am very critical because of the way being brought up in learning and understanding scripture that when it comes to the bible a person needs to use it in the context that the verse is given. For who was the context talking to or speaking about or what did God say, or promises, or what did scripture say about this group of people.

Ministry to me is something that should be done out of love for God and love for other people in desiring to teach the scripture and prayerfully understand what is written in scripture to also consider context surrounding the scripture and the times in the ages which the scripture was written and what is being talked about with-in the whole of the letters, and documents found with in the 66 books of the Holy Bible all people have today to look at and learn about freely; though some bibles may come at a bit of a price, some bibles can be found freely or given from churches if they desire to give bibles away.

Ministry would be importance of placing God first and fore most, teaching the word of God to other people free of charge, and teaching in a response to learn and grow and mature in their spiritual relationship with God.

Am glad you think that I am wrong about peoples eternal destinies. It makes me glad to know from your honesty to share with me that information. Because truly there are some topics that should be talked about and tackled around but maybe in Gods time he will bring forth that conversation when He is ready and that takes a lot of time searching and seeking God out in the scripture for the truths and answers that are found with-in the bible itself.

What do you mean you try to let the bible ruin your theology? What does that mean exactly to you? You are talking about someone when it pertains to sinless perfection.

My response to you about sinless perfection is false. No one can be perfect in their flesh for it is impossible to tame the tongue for it is a flaming fire that can set houses on fire and burn them down, or can speak sweet tasting smooth words of honey into another persons ear. It said that sweet encouraging words are like honey and sweet to the soul. (something like that in proverbs?). The seed of God in you and you receiving the holy spirit and if you walk by the spirit you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh now that is true. Though it is a condition if you choose to walk by the spirit or to walk by the desires of the flesh which the spirit and the flesh are always conflicting one another. Forever fighting.

That seed of God in you because of being born again being a Child of God will not have the desire to sin because it is the spirit of Christ in you that is living because of your faith in your newness of walking by faith in worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Your spiritual desire will have no motion to sin because it is from Christ with-in you the desire is coming from because of God. The more you think and pray and focus on the things of above the more the things of the earth itself pass away. The more your spiritual life grows in having a heart and mind changed for God in response the spirit from with-in you causes you to have love, to have compassion, to have mercy, to have longsuffering, to have patience, to have meekness, to have love, to have forgiveness, to have joy to anything one or problem that we may come up and face against.

You are right when you talk about Sin. How in reality in Christ we die to sin and our fleshly nature of covetousness, lust, greed, hatred, gossip, lying, stealing, slandering, fighting, and baptized in Christ death, and raised again in the likeness of our new life in Christ Jesus in whom we have placed our faith in whom is the Son of God. (Galatians 2:20).

Yes you are right when we disagree about your last two lines.

With love in Christ,
Matthew G.

 

[Wynona]

Hello Wynona,

Would like to tell you it is nice to listen to what you have to say and what you share in your insights here when it comes to Conjecture over the Bible is not what you prefer especially in the context of Ministry.

What do you think a Ministry would be required to do if it was to go by the standards solely found with-in scriptures themselves? To me when it comes to Ministry; (Criticism). Am very critical because of the way being brought up in learning and understanding scripture that when it comes to the bible a person needs to use it in the context that the verse is given. For who was the context talking to or speaking about or what did God say, or promises, or what did scripture say about this group of people.

Ministry to me is something that should be done out of love for God and love for other people in desiring to teach the scripture and prayerfully understand what is written in scripture to also consider context surrounding the scripture and the times in the ages which the scripture was written and what is being talked about with-in the whole of the letters, and documents found with in the 66 books of the Holy Bible all people have today to look at and learn about freely; though some bibles may come at a bit of a price, some bibles can be found freely or given from churches if they desire to give bibles away.

Ministry would be importance of placing God first and fore most, teaching the word of God to other people free of charge, and teaching in a response to learn and grow and mature in their spiritual relationship with God.

Am glad you think that I am wrong about peoples eternal destinies. It makes me glad to know from your honesty to share with me that information. Because truly there are some topics that should be talked about and tackled around but maybe in Gods time he will bring forth that conversation when He is ready and that takes a lot of time searching and seeking God out in the scripture for the truths and answers that are found with-in the bible itself.

What do you mean you try to let the bible ruin your theology? What does that mean exactly to you? You are talking about someone when it pertains to sinless perfection.

My response to you about sinless perfection is false. No one can be perfect in their flesh for it is impossible to tame the tongue for it is a flaming fire that can set houses on fire and burn them down, or can speak sweet tasting smooth words of honey into another persons ear. It said that sweet encouraging words are like honey and sweet to the soul. (something like that in proverbs?). The seed of God in you and you receiving the holy spirit and if you walk by the spirit you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh now that is true. Though it is a condition if you choose to walk by the spirit or to walk by the desires of the flesh which the spirit and the flesh are always conflicting one another. Forever fighting.

That seed of God in you because of being born again being a Child of God will not have the desire to sin because it is the spirit of Christ in you that is living because of your faith in your newness of walking by faith in worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Your spiritual desire will have no motion to sin because it is from Christ with-in you the desire is coming from because of God. The more you think and pray and focus on the things of above the more the things of the earth itself pass away. The more your spiritual life grows in having a heart and mind changed for God in response the spirit from with-in you causes you to have love, to have compassion, to have mercy, to have longsuffering, to have patience, to have meekness, to have love, to have forgiveness, to have joy to anything one or problem that we may come up and face against.

You are right when you talk about Sin. How in reality in Christ we die to sin and our fleshly nature of covetousness, lust, greed, hatred, gossip, lying, stealing, slandering, fighting, and baptized in Christ death, and raised again in the likeness of our new life in Christ Jesus in whom we have placed our faith in whom is the Son of God. (Galatians 2:20).

Yes you are right when we disagree about your last two lines.

With love in Christ,
Matthew G.

MatthewG, it's a good discussion you have going! I am not the best person to talk about attaining sinlessness. But if you'd like, I can do a further study about our relationship to sin as believers and come back with what I find.

I figured you would not be open to changing your stance on eternal destinies because I have a hunch that you tie your stance on it to God's character and His goodness. Let me know if Im off on that.

When I say let the Bible ruin your theology, I mean read the Bible without the opinions of yourself or other people as a bias.

I used to believe in OSAS, for example. But Scripture kind of proved me wrong in that area, so in that way, the Bible ruined the slightly Calvinist flavor I approached it with.

John Calvin, Wesley, C.S Lewis, Spurgeon or whoever--- they all are not the final authority. Scripture is.

We can really love a pastor or Bible teacher, but in the end, we need to know what's in the Word for ourselves.

 

[farouk]

Personally, conjecture over the Bible is not what I prefer, especially in the context of ministry.

If someone is trying to instruct me, they are held to a higher standard. I expect them to take a biblical stance one way or the other based on what is written. Id prefer someone to be wrong and strong in their stance, like how I think you're wrong about people's eternal destinies.

When someone takes a firm stance, I can compare it to Scripture and sharpen my worldview.

We live in a flaky time where no one wants to offend anybody or step on anybody's toes. But we have to learn how to have civil disagreements and also deal with those who are uncivil in a Christlike way.

Some things are worth taking a strong stance on.

I try to let the Bible ruin my theology. For example, someone on here believes we can attain sinless perfection. At first, I didn't agree. But in Scripture, sinlessness is not this rare unobtainable thing but a goal to strive for with the help of God's Spirit. Jesus commanded his disciples to be perfect.

The Bible is always stricter on the areas of obedience and maturity than I would be. But I need the Bible to give me the strength to pursue righteousness and sanctification as a daily goal.

If you look at what popular teachers and preachers are saying, you get this idea that sin is this muck that sticks to you that there is no hope of getting away from. But is that what the Bible says?

I think some people are reading their system of thinking into the Scripture, rather than letting Scripture reorder they're thinking.

Unbelievers who die unsaved go to hell and then are bodily resurrected for judgment and then cast into the lake of fire.

This is not a belief I would have come up with. But we must grapple with things from Scripture.

Hi @Wynona Best to stick to what the Bible clearly reveals, right? rather than through conjecture and 'wriggle room' try to force the Scriptures through some interpretation that accommodates human pride, right?

 

[Wynona]

Hi @Wynona Best to stick to what the Bible clearly reveals, right? rather than through conjecture and 'wriggle room' try to force the Scriptures through some interpretation that accommodates human pride, right?

Yes. Well put.

 

[marks]

No one can be perfect in their flesh for it is impossible to tame the tongue for it is a flaming fire that can set houses on fire and burn them down, or can speak sweet tasting smooth words of honey into another persons ear

This is an interesting example, since, we're told that if we can tame our tongue, we can control our entire body. Controlling the tongue will enable us to control ourselves completely. Can we? OR more to the point, can the Holy Spirit?

James 3:1-2 KJV
1) My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

James 3:8 KJV
8) But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

We cannot tame our tongue, no man can. However, we can walk in the Spirit, and the Spirit gives us self-control.

If we try to control our tongue by direct pursuit - commitment, dedication, determined to say the right things and not the wrong things, we will fail. No man can tame the tongue. But we can walk in the Spirit, and our tongue is tamed.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

You are absolutely right about that, Marks.

Walking by the spirit is so important to the Christian walk my friend. It is so true in how the Spirit gives a person self-control. And that if one walks in the spirit worshiping God in spirit and truth because of Christ in them they will not sin if one is living by the spirit. The flesh does come up and sometimes you or I mess up in our lives and that is simply times to have reflection and relooking at who we are and how we compared to God in knowing that He is our Creator. To reach out towards Him and be reminded that you are loved by God and the Lord Jesus Christ. That God is also reaching out towards you to have a relationship and to worship God in spirit and in truth in life in walking in faith by trusting God and our Lord.

Thank you for sharing a moment of your time and these scriptures,
Matthew G

 

[marks]

You are absolutely right about that, Marks.

Walking by the spirit is so important to the Christian walk my friend. It is so true in how the Spirit gives a person self-control. And that if one walks in the spirit worshiping God in spirit and truth because of Christ in them they will not sin if one is living by the spirit. The flesh does come up and sometimes you or I mess up in our lives and that is simply times to have reflection and relooking at who we are and how we compared to God in knowing that He is our Creator. To reach out towards Him and be reminded that you are loved by God and the Lord Jesus Christ. That God is also reaching out towards you to have a relationship and to worship God in spirit and in truth in life in walking in faith by trusting God and our Lord.

Thank you for sharing a moment of your time and these scriptures,
Matthew G

Amen!