Eternal Security Promised
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Which when you fail, Jesus get to lose you, according to your thinking.
And what does that mean for Jesus, but that He failed to accomplish what God had told Him to concerning those whom the Father had given to Him, that is, to lose none.
If you don’t see that, then so be it like so.
Tong
R4289
It is the Shepherd that keeps the sheep.
But if you think that the sheep keeps itself to be kept by the Shepherd, the so be it like so with you.
Tong
R4290
What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31
For a believer they have the right to know that God is for them, and that because of that God being for them who could be against them? Not to say that a person may or may not have enemies in their life however: Who can be against you as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and God?
To me the truth is yourself: You can change your mind: just like God can change His mind: All people are created in the image of God ~ That means people have a mind/will/emotion just like God does.
To suggest a person can not walk away from God is a lie because a person can make the choice to do so regardless of what one 'may think of the impossibility of it'.
With this said: You can walk away from faith... something can come in your life and you can just go the way of being hardened. It is a sad to watch though someone who was once for God walk away from God.
Suggesting - Renouncing God, Jesus in their life ~ The Word Apostate comes to mind; it is someone who no longer stands with God.
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
The choice is there to make. To me the best choice is believing, having faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
For a believer they have the right to know that God is for them, and that because of that God being for them who could be against them? Not to say that a person may or may not have enemies in their life however: Who can be against you as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and God?
To me the truth is yourself: You can change your mind: just like God can change His mind: All people are created in the image of God ~ That means people have a mind/will/emotion just like God does.
To suggest a person can not walk away from God is a lie because a person can make the choice to do so regardless of what one 'may think of the impossibility of it'.
With this said: You can walk away from faith... something can come in your life and you can just go the way of being hardened. It is a sad to watch though someone who was once for God walk away from God.
Suggesting - Renouncing God, Jesus in their life ~ The Word Apostate comes to mind; it is someone who no longer stands with God.
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
The choice is there to make. To me the best choice is believing, having faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
<<<To me the truth is yourself: You can change your mind: just like God can change His mind: All people are created in the image of God ~ That means people have a mind/will/emotion just like God does.>>>
To me the truth is Jesus Christ.
All people are created in Adam, born with corrupted flesh and under the reign of death.
Among them, the Father had given to the Son, who will come to Jesus in faith, believing and trusting in Him. They are created anew by God in Christ Jesus, who at the appointed time will all be given a new body, which unlike the body which they are born with in Adam, is incorruptible and immortal, free from indwelling sin and no longer under the reign of death.
<<<With this said: You can walk away from faith... something can come in your life and you can just go the way of being hardened. It is a sad to watch though someone who was once for God walk away from God.>>>
I do not have the thinking that those the Father have given to the Son, were given a power so great, greater than all other given powers that there is, to walk away from Christ and be lost, to the failure of Jesus to fulfill the will of His Father. For scriptures said that Jesus said concerning them, “This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. “
I share and have the same persuasion as apostle Paul who said “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Tong
R4291
I do not really know what you call Determinism.
So I could not really comment on your question.
I just happen to share and have the persuasion of Paul with regard that.
Tong
R4292
Will you answer my question though?
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
Some people become hardened in their heart and walk away from God...
Did you know that? Can they come back to God again ? Sure and God will help restore them, can they walk away? Yes they can.
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
Some people become hardened in their heart and walk away from God...
Did you know that? Can they come back to God again ? Sure and God will help restore them, can they walk away? Yes they can.
People are mixing up being out of fellowship with God and loss of salvation...
When a child has mis-behaved and disobeyed their parents... they are out of fellowship... but they are not out of their rightful position as CHILD.
God does NOT abandon HIS children when they misbehave... THIS is the big problem with this argument.
I am SO GRATEFUL that GOD has more mercy and patience than humans do.
Make sure the INSIDE of your cup is clean... I love that saying.
When a child has mis-behaved and disobeyed their parents... they are out of fellowship... but they are not out of their rightful position as CHILD.
God does NOT abandon HIS children when they misbehave... THIS is the big problem with this argument.
I am SO GRATEFUL that GOD has more mercy and patience than humans do.
Make sure the INSIDE of your cup is clean... I love that saying.
What question, if God is a determinist? It would be fair I think that you tell what you mean to say “determinist”. And I will be happy to answer your question after the clarification.
What is your point In citing those scriptures you quoted? I hope it is not to have that mixed up against the persuasion of Paul written in Romans 8:38-39.
Now, it is your position that the true believer can, at his own will, fall to unbelief. Granting for the sake of argument, that that is true. One would fall to unbelief for some reason, right? May I ask, what can you think of that would be a good reason, if not the best, that he would fall unto unbelief? A reason so big that it caused the true believer to separate himself from Christ?
Regarding Hebrews 6:4-6, I will move to ask some questions to clarify a few things:
1. what does the passage actually presents to the reader? Is it a real situation or is it a hypothetical one?
2. What does the passage says that is impossible?
3. What does the passage say is the reason of that which is said to be impossible?
Tong
R4293
Death of a family member, having losing a baby in the womb due to problems, there is all types of different reasons that can befall a person to turn from God. Losing a leg or limb, darkness consuming in their life all of a sudden and they desire it more than the light.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
"See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God." Hebrews 3:12
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Regardless of how you arrived at your definition of Predestination, your definition of Predestination is the Calvinistic definition of Predestination.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
In the context that we are discussing it, 'everlasting life' refers to a life that won't fizzle away on you and fail you, like the life given from an old covenant sacrifice did, because that's what the Bible says Christ's 'everlasting life' is.
I am not at all saying those aren’t difficult times. They are. However, would they be too big and difficult enough, would they have such power as to have you truly stop believing unto unbelief, too powerful to separate you from the love of Christ? Again, I refer you to Romans 8:38-39.
And speaking of difficult times and situations, let me ask the question asked by Paul in the following scriptures:
Romans 8:5 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
What would be your answer to that?
Tong
R4294
It seems to me that your answer to the question is a Yes.
Just be be clear, the question is in the context of the true believer, and not just any person for that matter.
Tong
R4295
Well if you say so, let that it be for you then. I will leave it that.
Tong
R4296
That choice is still predominant. Yes any believer can encourage another really depends on the individual…
The individual and their own relationship with God.
No one can have a relationship with God for other people… (you can pray on their behalf) It is a choice is made by the person to start having a relationship with God.
To think a person can not walk away when the Bible suggest for us to not walk away and become hard hearted.
People believe all kinds of things when it comes to the Bible. The thing is choice is something God have to human beings since the creation of Adam and Eve.
My suggestion is God did not know if they would disobey or not.
If someone is a deterministic in their thinking they would say God knew they were gonna disobey but is that really true?
God could have created them then let himself not know what they would do and let them choose for themselves whatever it is they may do… Though he knew what he would do if they did disobey.
Either walk in faith or walk away from faith.
Walk in faith; even in failure of the flesh, to love God and love others.
To think a person can not walk away when the Bible suggest for us to not walk away and become hard hearted.
People believe all kinds of things when it comes to the Bible. The thing is choice is something God have to human beings since the creation of Adam and Eve.
My suggestion is God did not know if they would disobey or not.
If someone is a deterministic in their thinking they would say God knew they were gonna disobey but is that really true?
God could have created them then let himself not know what they would do and let them choose for themselves whatever it is they may do… Though he knew what he would do if they did disobey.
Either walk in faith or walk away from faith.
Walk in faith; even in failure of the flesh, to love God and love others.
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