Never mind the hell denier's disregard for written Bible scripture about hell as a real place. Who would most want someone to deny the existence of Satan and the abode of hell, and what for?
Where Does Denial of Scripture About Hell Originate?
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Alethos
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Hell in the Old Testament - Facts
The word 'hell' appears thirty one times in the AV of the Old Testament:
(Deut 32:22; 2 Sam. 22:6; Job 11:8; 26:6; ; Isa 5:14; 14:9,15; 28:15,18; 57:9; Eze 31:16,17; 32:21,27; Amos 9:2; Jon 2:2; Hab 2:5; Psa 9:17; 16:10; 18:5; 55:15; 86:13; 116:3; 139:8; Prov 5:5; 7:27; 9:18; 15:11,24; 23:14; 27:20).
You may be surprised that in the RSV of the Old Testament the word 'hell' does not appear in any of these above verses.
However, in its place is the Hebrew word 'Sheol'. What does Sheol mean?
Sheol means "a hollow and subterranean place, full of thick darkness".
The NIV of the Old Testament does not use 'Sheol' or 'hell' in any of these verses, rather 'grave', 'death' or 'the depths'.
In none of these verses is “sheol” associated with the idea of a place of torment or punishment.
“Sheol” indicates a complete lack of conscious thought or deliberate action there e.g
"For in death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave [sheol] who shall give Thee thanks?" (Psa 6:5);
"there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave [sheol]" (Eccl 9:10);
"the grave [sheol] cannot praise Thee, death cannot celebrate Thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for Thy truth" (Isa 38:18).
'Hell' in the AV of the Old Testament is to be understood as referring to that place to which all are gathered at death.
The grave.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Hell is real. It is eternal. It can be avoided. Only Christ's sacrifice justifies / only the Holy Spirit sanctifies; making us citizens of Heaven. Anything less than learning to love God and our neighbor results in Hell. We cannot learn to love fully without a personal relationship with God, made possible through Christ's sacrifice. Amen
Alethos
New Member
Hell in the New Testament - Facts
The AV of the New Testament has the word 'hell' appear twenty-three times. This can cause some confusion because in the original Greek three different words are used.
1. 'gehenna' (Mat 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mar 9:43,45,47; Luk 12:5; Jam 3:6),
2. 'hades' (Mat 11:23; 16:18; Luk 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Rev 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14).
3. 'tartaroo' (2Pe 2:4)
Some can be confusion when using the NIV, which states 'hades' as 'hell' in Luke 16:23, as 'grave' in Acts 2:27 and as 'Hades' in Rev 1:18.
However, in the RSV there is less confusion because there is more consistency in that 'gehenna' is always translated 'hell', and 'hades' is left as 'Hades' (Mat 16:18 'death', margin indicates 'Hades').
The AV of the New Testament has the word 'hell' appear twenty-three times. This can cause some confusion because in the original Greek three different words are used.
1. 'gehenna' (Mat 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mar 9:43,45,47; Luk 12:5; Jam 3:6),
2. 'hades' (Mat 11:23; 16:18; Luk 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Rev 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14).
3. 'tartaroo' (2Pe 2:4)
Some can be confusion when using the NIV, which states 'hades' as 'hell' in Luke 16:23, as 'grave' in Acts 2:27 and as 'Hades' in Rev 1:18.
However, in the RSV there is less confusion because there is more consistency in that 'gehenna' is always translated 'hell', and 'hades' is left as 'Hades' (Mat 16:18 'death', margin indicates 'Hades').
Alethos
New Member
Hell is real (grave Amos 9:2). It is eternal (grave Prov 21:16). It can be avoided (No! Even Christ went there read Acts 2:25, 26,27,28,29,30-31). Only Christ's sacrifice justifies / only the Holy Spirit sanctifies (true) ; making us citizens of Heaven (true Eph 2:19). Anything less than learning to love God and our neighbor results in Hell. We cannot learn to love fully without a personal relationship with God, made possible through Christ's sacrifice. Amen
Aspens words above with quotes added
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Though they dig down to the depths of the grave, from there my hand will take them. though they climb up to the heavens, from there I will bring them down. Amos 9:2
In other words if God chooses to slay the ungodly they cannot escape, they could try to dig in to the Earth of climb in to the sky (compare Psa 139:7, & Jon 1; 2).
Aspen & Veteran, if only you understood if neither heights nor depths can separate us from the love of God Rom 8:38,39, then the ungodly are unable to hide from the wrath of God.
Open your ears and heed the Scripture for it is trustworthy and true.
Alethos
Aspens words above with quotes added
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Though they dig down to the depths of the grave, from there my hand will take them. though they climb up to the heavens, from there I will bring them down. Amos 9:2
In other words if God chooses to slay the ungodly they cannot escape, they could try to dig in to the Earth of climb in to the sky (compare Psa 139:7, & Jon 1; 2).
Aspen & Veteran, if only you understood if neither heights nor depths can separate us from the love of God Rom 8:38,39, then the ungodly are unable to hide from the wrath of God.
Open your ears and heed the Scripture for it is trustworthy and true.
Alethos
Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
[sup]49 [/sup]So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, [sup]50 [/sup]and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
[sup]49 [/sup]So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, [sup]50 [/sup]and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Alethos
New Member
Do you believe the furnace is a literal furnace like those used in smelters? Like that below?
Please explain?
Alethos
Alethos
New Member
Upon coming into this forum I was genially surprised with how vocal a few are in regards to the old notion of Hell? The original teaching believed this place of fiery torment was somewhere below the earth. I don’t know where they place it now? They may not know themselves.
In many parts of Christendom we are seeing a turning away of this horrible doctrine that endless suffering is "just" retribution for the sins of a few years of mortal life.
I know...its repugnant! When considering the Fathers Character Exod 34:6 Hos 11:8; Mic 7:18; 2 Peter 3:9; Eze 18:28,32; Eze 33:11; Jer 29:11. Jer 24:7
It is impossible to reconcile the false doctrine of eternal torment with the belief in a righteous and loving God. It is clear in this forum most Christian could better understand sin, its origins and Gods viewpoint. God’s punishment of sin is a punishment consistent with God's character.
If only men allowed their beliefs to be confined to Bible teaching and not the surreal notions of pagan mythology. Another false teaching equally as offensive is the idea that “hell” is a “state of mind” being alienated from God and Jesus, again this has no Scriptural basis.
The truth, as always is “simple” and “beautiful”.
Hell is another word for grave.
Even using the KJV and reading in context we start to see a truth emerge about hell.
· "The mighty ... are gone down to hell with their weapons of war, and they have laid their swords under their heads" (Ezek. 32:27).
Is this your popular hell?
Do evil spirits take their swords to hell with them?
No, the bodies of all great men in these old times were buried with their weapons which they used during their lifetime. Hell here is the grave
· "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" (Psa. 16:10). This one is very confronting to eternal hell believers because here we have Peter quoting this as a prophecy of Jesus’ resurrection from the grave (Acts 2:27-32).
If you believed the conventional hell? This passage means Jesus went there for three days. Impossible, I say impossible.
· Jonah, referring to his temporary incarceration in a fish, says, "Out of the belly of hell cried I" (Jonah 2:1-3).
Here we see a symbolic grave in the belly of a fish...here too conventional hell is impossible.
· "Thou Capernaum shalt be brought down to hell" (Matt. 11:23).
Can a whole city go to the conventional hell? No, the ruin of a city can be described as bringing those ungodly inhabitants to the grave; but a physical city cannot be seen going down bodily into a fiery hell.
· "The sorrows of death compassed me: the pains of hell gat hold on me" (Psa. 116:3).
David is speaking of death. Do you believe a man after Gods own heart can be seared by the flames of hell? Didn’t think so!
· "My church: the gates of hell shalt not prevail against it'' (Matt. 16:18).
Do you believe Gods children are in the gates of conventional Hell? It is true the gates of the grave will close against his people put Jesus has the key to unlock the grave. No fiery hell here either.
· "I (Christ) have the keys of hell and of death" (Rev. 1:18).
· And if you need any proof this must send the message loud and clear. The grave and death is exactly what Jesus is coming to unlock through the resurrection and then the life.
· "O that thou wouldest hide me in THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Job 14:13).
· "Let the wicked be ashamed; let them be silent in THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Psa. 31:17).
· "O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades-the Greek equivalent of sheol), where is thy victory?" (1 Cor. 15:55).
· "Bring down my grey hairs with sorrow to THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Gen. 42:38).
· "He bringeth down to THE GRAVE, (sheol) and bringeth up" (1 Sam. 2:6).
· "IN THE GRAVE (sheol) who shall give thee thanks?" (Psa. 6:5).
· "Like sheep they are laid in THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Psa. 49:14).
· "There is no work, nor device, nor wisdom in THE GRAVE (sheol), whither thou goest" (Ecc. 9:10).
· "I will ransom them from the power of THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Hos. 13:14).
All these passages prove without any doubt that hell of the Bible is none other than the grave.
Alethos
In many parts of Christendom we are seeing a turning away of this horrible doctrine that endless suffering is "just" retribution for the sins of a few years of mortal life.
I know...its repugnant! When considering the Fathers Character Exod 34:6 Hos 11:8; Mic 7:18; 2 Peter 3:9; Eze 18:28,32; Eze 33:11; Jer 29:11. Jer 24:7
It is impossible to reconcile the false doctrine of eternal torment with the belief in a righteous and loving God. It is clear in this forum most Christian could better understand sin, its origins and Gods viewpoint. God’s punishment of sin is a punishment consistent with God's character.
If only men allowed their beliefs to be confined to Bible teaching and not the surreal notions of pagan mythology. Another false teaching equally as offensive is the idea that “hell” is a “state of mind” being alienated from God and Jesus, again this has no Scriptural basis.
The truth, as always is “simple” and “beautiful”.
Hell is another word for grave.
Even using the KJV and reading in context we start to see a truth emerge about hell.
· "The mighty ... are gone down to hell with their weapons of war, and they have laid their swords under their heads" (Ezek. 32:27).
Is this your popular hell?
Do evil spirits take their swords to hell with them?
No, the bodies of all great men in these old times were buried with their weapons which they used during their lifetime. Hell here is the grave
· "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" (Psa. 16:10). This one is very confronting to eternal hell believers because here we have Peter quoting this as a prophecy of Jesus’ resurrection from the grave (Acts 2:27-32).
If you believed the conventional hell? This passage means Jesus went there for three days. Impossible, I say impossible.
· Jonah, referring to his temporary incarceration in a fish, says, "Out of the belly of hell cried I" (Jonah 2:1-3).
Here we see a symbolic grave in the belly of a fish...here too conventional hell is impossible.
· "Thou Capernaum shalt be brought down to hell" (Matt. 11:23).
Can a whole city go to the conventional hell? No, the ruin of a city can be described as bringing those ungodly inhabitants to the grave; but a physical city cannot be seen going down bodily into a fiery hell.
· "The sorrows of death compassed me: the pains of hell gat hold on me" (Psa. 116:3).
David is speaking of death. Do you believe a man after Gods own heart can be seared by the flames of hell? Didn’t think so!
· "My church: the gates of hell shalt not prevail against it'' (Matt. 16:18).
Do you believe Gods children are in the gates of conventional Hell? It is true the gates of the grave will close against his people put Jesus has the key to unlock the grave. No fiery hell here either.
· "I (Christ) have the keys of hell and of death" (Rev. 1:18).
· And if you need any proof this must send the message loud and clear. The grave and death is exactly what Jesus is coming to unlock through the resurrection and then the life.
· "O that thou wouldest hide me in THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Job 14:13).
· "Let the wicked be ashamed; let them be silent in THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Psa. 31:17).
· "O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades-the Greek equivalent of sheol), where is thy victory?" (1 Cor. 15:55).
· "Bring down my grey hairs with sorrow to THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Gen. 42:38).
· "He bringeth down to THE GRAVE, (sheol) and bringeth up" (1 Sam. 2:6).
· "IN THE GRAVE (sheol) who shall give thee thanks?" (Psa. 6:5).
· "Like sheep they are laid in THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Psa. 49:14).
· "There is no work, nor device, nor wisdom in THE GRAVE (sheol), whither thou goest" (Ecc. 9:10).
· "I will ransom them from the power of THE GRAVE" (sheol) (Hos. 13:14).
All these passages prove without any doubt that hell of the Bible is none other than the grave.
Alethos
Alethos
New Member
So living truth can be sounded over the noise of error. 1 Peter 2:15
1Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in (the Christianity Board Forum), but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
Father...Thy Word is Truth John 17:17
DEATH!
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave* where you are going.
If you read this and still believe in everlasting torment then you haven't solved the apparent contradictions in your own understanding therefore you hold to what you want to believe and overlook the other.
You are showing your own lack of knowledge because in Ecc 9:10 the word Grave there is called HELL in other places in most English versions..
That is the HELL you want to believe in, but with no knowledge, no device, no work and no wisdom there can be no torment or punishment.
Accept it
It is Sheol.
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
You refuse to accept anything other than what you've been misled to believe.
Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave* where you are going.
If you read this and still believe in everlasting torment then you haven't solved the apparent contradictions in your own understanding therefore you hold to what you want to believe and overlook the other.
You are showing your own lack of knowledge because in Ecc 9:10 the word Grave there is called HELL in other places in most English versions..
That is the HELL you want to believe in, but with no knowledge, no device, no work and no wisdom there can be no torment or punishment.
Accept it
It is Sheol.
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
You refuse to accept anything other than what you've been misled to believe.
Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
[sup]41 [/sup]Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
We can't say we weren't warned.
[sup]41 [/sup]Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
We can't say we weren't warned.
Alethos
New Member
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Ducky, they must be very "special" worms?
The punishment for the wicked is death Rom 5:12; 6:23; Rev 20:14.
Alethos
Hell is a very special place. An eternal nightmare come true. Don't forget, Satan will be there too. It's a very special place.
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Alethos
New Member
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Ducky, they must be very "special" worms?
Yes we know its special Ducky, but tell us about the worms! How do they live in this ever burning fire?
Do you mean to tell me you believe worms have an immortal soul and they go to hell also?
Alethos (Eccl 3:19)
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Ducky, they must be very "special" worms?
Yes we know its special Ducky, but tell us about the worms! How do they live in this ever burning fire?
Do you mean to tell me you believe worms have an immortal soul and they go to hell also?
Alethos (Eccl 3:19)
Like everything else. God commands, and it is.
Never said worms have a soul. Like I said, they are special. They are for those in the eternal fire. God could have made them when He created Hell.Do you mean to tell me you believe worms have an immortal soul and they go to hell also?
Alethos (Eccl 3:19)
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
[sup]41 [/sup]Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Of course that would be Satan himself. That's why many vehemently insist that there is no Hell. They are deceived ministers of Satan himself, sent to deceive others.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (ESV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. [sup]15 [/sup]So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
When we are before Christ and He is seperating us into the sheep and the goats, I certainly hope I am not standing anywhere near Mr. Truth while he tries to tell Jesus, "But, but, but, in the ancient Greek it says..."
.
.
The lake of Fire is not the same as the man-made HELL.
HEll was not ever mentioned by Christ.
HE said Gehenna and that is not the Lake of Fire. That's two different places.
You're so confused and really have no business arguing about scriptures..
You are more or less just defending what you've heard and read and you have no idea what you're talking about.
But you have the right to babel on and on.
it isn't against the rules.
about 20 years old?
Zealous but clueless.
Continue studying.
That only shows how poorly you know scripture.
God isn't saving people based on whether they believe in Hell or the Lake of Fire oh milk babe.
Its based on the acceptance of Christ as lord and savior.
Now if he kept people out of his kindom for not knowing something, it would be not knowing exactly what the gospel message was.
And you Duckybill don't seem to get it.
But fear not he isn't judging on that and on whether you believe in a everlasting torment in Hell..
please guys go read and study before embarrassing yourselves anymore.
Shalma
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