Rebuking v Personally Attacking

[Wrangler]

Recently, a few new members started politically oriented threads. In those threads, some posts were thought to be personally attacking. And that experience motivated this thread.

It seems to me this touches on the broader topic of rebuking, which is in Scripture, while not personally attacking. Romans 14:1, 13; James 4:11-12 come to mind. As with all such things, discernment is necessary.

The line that I see is to identify the object of criticism; the idea or the person. Ideas not from the Spirit should be rebuked. People should be loved. Now, this is great in theory but in practice, things quickly get emotionally charged, especially in today's political climate.

For example, a tactic of the Left is to deliberately use inflammatory or subversive language such as "Black Lives Matter." I submit it is a self-evident racist slogan. Our social conditioning would immediately recognize it as racist if any other race were in the slogan. The irony is opposing this exclusionary and racist slogan immediately opens one up to be called a racist. That's the tactic deserving to be rebuked.

Calling someone a racist is personally attacking and is designed to shut down debate. However, pointing out that someone is embracing racist ideas seems to be more rebuking. Thoughts?

 

[GaryAnderson]

I agree with you especially the part where you say “this is great in theory but in practice things get charged”.
If we are to learn a mistake about ourselves, the person who’s doing the teaching should not be bullying his students and should not view his teachings in terms of win/lose scenario.

 

[Wynona]

Recently, a few new members started politically oriented threads. In those threads, some posts were thought to be personally attacking. And that experience motivated this thread.

It seems to me this touches on the broader topic of rebuking, which is in Scripture, while not personally attacking. Romans 14:1, 13; James 4:11-12 come to mind. As with all such things, discernment is necessary.

The line that I see is to identify the object of criticism; the idea or the person. Ideas not from the Spirit should be rebuked. People should be loved. Now, this is great in theory but in practice, things quickly get emotionally charged, especially in today's political climate.

For example, a tactic of the Left is to deliberately use inflammatory or subversive language such as "Black Lives Matter." I submit it is a self-evident racist slogan. Our social conditioning would immediately recognize it as racist if any other race were in the slogan. The irony is opposing this exclusionary and racist slogan immediately opens one up to be called a racist. That's the tactic deserving to be rebuked.

Calling someone a racist is personally attacking and is designed to shut down debate. However, pointing out that someone is embracing racist ideas seems to be more rebuking. Thoughts?

I have actually wondered about this.

What if the other person is a wolf and the Holy Spirit actually compels you to rebuke the person?

The guidelines of this forum don't allow for personal attacks. But in some cases, hopefully the staff can see when a divisive person is causing trouble.

I suppose thats what they're there for and we are to trust the process. But sometimes the Holy Spirit isn't "nice". I wonder if that makes sense.

 

[Wrangler]

teachings in terms of win/lose scenario

Many of Jesus' most provocative parables were in terms of win/lose scenario. The Pharisee's certainly did not like being compared to what Jesus compared them to.

The win/lose scenario I like to use is in terms of a better scenario. To see the compelling advantages of another scenario is perhaps easier when you agree on strategy and are merely discussing tactics of how best to advance a particular goal. For instance, if we both agree we don't want to disenfranchise voters, then talking about ID to vote is easier.

When one takes the position that not requiring ID is the safest way to prevent disenfranching voters, it must be admitted that one is endorsing a system open to rampant voter fraud. The win/lose scenario is in recognizing the benefits of one of the poorest countries on Earth has government provided voter ID - for free. This win/lose scenario has the advantage of achieving 2 noble goals, not just one.

 

[Wynona]

Recently, a few new members started politically oriented threads. In those threads, some posts were thought to be personally attacking. And that experience motivated this thread.

It seems to me this touches on the broader topic of rebuking, which is in Scripture, while not personally attacking. Romans 14:1, 13; James 4:11-12 come to mind. As with all such things, discernment is necessary.

The line that I see is to identify the object of criticism; the idea or the person. Ideas not from the Spirit should be rebuked. People should be loved. Now, this is great in theory but in practice, things quickly get emotionally charged, especially in today's political climate.

For example, a tactic of the Left is to deliberately use inflammatory or subversive language such as "Black Lives Matter." I submit it is a self-evident racist slogan. Our social conditioning would immediately recognize it as racist if any other race were in the slogan. The irony is opposing this exclusionary and racist slogan immediately opens one up to be called a racist. That's the tactic deserving to be rebuked.

Calling someone a racist is personally attacking and is designed to shut down debate. However, pointing out that someone is embracing racist ideas seems to be more rebuking. Thoughts?

Also, I want to say that we have made idols out of "diversity and inclusion" and race to the point where people seriously need to calm down and patiently explain things when they come up. Don't get caught up in emotions with the person accusing you of being a racist.

I want to go ahead and point out that BLM has a misleading name. They aren't about what the name suggests at all.

They support communism and the disruption of the nuclear family. So, less fathers in the home. Just what the black community needs...

 

[Wrangler]

But sometimes the Holy Spirit isn't "nice".

Like when the Holy Spirit killed a couple for lying about giving all the proceeds to the church. I suppose "nice" or kindness has to be tempered with holy and just. I submit we would not worship a god who need not be feared.

What if the other person is a wolf and the Holy Spirit actually compels you to rebuke the person?

Again, the question is how to rebuke in a way that is not personally attacking?

 

[Wynona]

Like when the Holy Spirit killed a couple for lying about giving all the proceeds to the church. I suppose "nice" or kindness has to be tempered with holy and just. I submit we would not worship a god who need not be feared.



Again, the question is how to rebuke in a way that is not personally attacking?

I don't think it can always be avoided. The difference is the motive. Rebuking is sometimes a Holy Spirit thing, and edifies the person, if listened to.

Personal attacks don't edify. They are just meant to attack the other person for disagreeing.

What may be helpful is if you describe where you're coming from in the first place, like "I don't mean any harm...With all due respect..."

 

[Wrangler]

I want to go ahead and point out that BLM has a misleading name. They aren't about what the name suggests at all.

They support communism and the disruption of the nuclear family. So, less fathers in the home. Just what the black community needs...

In honor of Rush Limbaugh, Mega Dittos.

Another radio talk show host asked which black lives matter?

• Black police officers killed by 'mostly peaceful protests?'
• Black children killed every weekend in Chicago by other Blacks?
• Black men forced by government to be separated from their families?
• Black conservatives?

On this last point, I'll never forget the vicious assault Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas suffered in ascending to his current post. What a disgrace! I have the utmost respect for him and wish he, along with Dr. Ben Carson, were referenced as role models.

Regarding the name being misleading. This is a subversive tactic of the Left. Subversive is deceptive and deceptive is evil.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Many of Jesus' most provocative parables were in terms of win/lose scenario. The Pharisee's certainly did not like being compared to what Jesus compared them to.

The win/lose scenario I like to use is in terms of a better scenario. To see the compelling advantages of another scenario is perhaps easier when you agree on strategy and are merely discussing tactics of how best to advance a particular goal. For instance, if we both agree we don't want to disenfranchise voters, then talking about ID to vote is easier.

When one takes the position that not requiring ID is the safest way to prevent disenfranching voters, it must be admitted that one is endorsing a system open to rampant voter fraud. The win/lose scenario is in recognizing the benefits of one of the poorest countries on Earth has government provided voter ID - for free. This win/lose scenario has the advantage of achieving 2 noble goals, not just one.

This part I don’t agree with, for many reasons. Here are a few:

1. We are not Jesus.
2. Jesus also had incredible grace.
3. Jesus was also loving and performed miracles.

 

[TEXBOW]

I have actually wondered about this.

What if the other person is a wolf and the Holy Spirit actually compels you to rebuke the person?

The guidelines of this forum don't allow for personal attacks. But in some cases, hopefully the staff can see when a divisive person is causing trouble.

I suppose thats what they're there for and we are to trust the process. But sometimes the Holy Spirit isn't "nice". I wonder if that makes sense.

I find the need to pray at times for direction on when to open my mouth (text) or simply pray for the person. Not always obvious.

 

[TEXBOW]

Also, I want to say that we have made idols out of "diversity and inclusion" and race to the point where people seriously need to calm down and patiently explain things when they come up. Don't get caught up in emotions with the person accusing you of being a racist.

I want to go ahead and point out that BLM has a misleading name. They aren't about what the name suggests at all.

They support communism and the disruption of the nuclear family. So, less fathers in the home. Just what the black community needs...

We are being conditioned to believe that if we disagree with a person (different than us) we must be racist. Jesus has the answers. It's impossible to be a racist and love at the same time.

 

[Wynona]

We are being conditioned to believe that if we disagree with a person (different than us) we must be racist. Jesus has the answers. It's impossible to be a racist and love at the same time.

The answer to racism is love.

I used to be racist. I unthinkingly went along with the popular narrative that there are a bunch of racist white elites who want to keep African Americans down.

But to be honest, some of the most generous and kindhearted people Ive known were not only white but wealthy....the dreaded 10 or 1 percent, which, who doesn't want be that?

I repented one day in a church full of well-off white people. I told the Lord that my attitude was way off and I would no longer judge people for having the prosperity and security we all long for anyway.

So if I meet a truly racist person who hates blacks, would that not be an awesome opportunity to be respectful and show the greatness of the love of Christ??

 

[TEXBOW]

The answer to racism is love.

I used to be racist. I unthinkingly went along with the popular narrative that there are a bunch of racist white elites who want to keep African Americans down.

But to be honest, some of the most generous and kindhearted people Ive known were not only white but wealthy....the dreaded 10 or 1 percent, which, who doesn't want be that?

I repented one day in a church full of well-off white people. I told the Lord that my attitude was way off and I would no longer judge people for having the prosperity and security we all long for anyway.

So if I meet a truly racist person who hates blacks, would that not be an awesome opportunity to be respectful and show the greatness of the love of Christ??

The blessings available for this world have been diminished because of hate. Evil comes in all colors and classes. Love is the answer.

 

[DuckieLady]

Recently, a few new members started politically oriented threads. In those threads, some posts were thought to be personally attacking. And that experience motivated this thread.

It seems to me this touches on the broader topic of rebuking, which is in Scripture, while not personally attacking. Romans 14:1, 13; James 4:11-12 come to mind. As with all such things, discernment is necessary.

The line that I see is to identify the object of criticism; the idea or the person. Ideas not from the Spirit should be rebuked. People should be loved. Now, this is great in theory but in practice, things quickly get emotionally charged, especially in today's political climate.

For example, a tactic of the Left is to deliberately use inflammatory or subversive language such as "Black Lives Matter." I submit it is a self-evident racist slogan. Our social conditioning would immediately recognize it as racist if any other race were in the slogan. The irony is opposing this exclusionary and racist slogan immediately opens one up to be called a racist. That's the tactic deserving to be rebuked.

Calling someone a racist is personally attacking and is designed to shut down debate. However, pointing out that someone is embracing racist ideas seems to be more rebuking. Thoughts?

I think it is used as a tool to divide people, so I don't give it attention. Starve that thing.

It does not matter what it is, if all a person has left to say is a personal attack, then they don't have a good argument.

But I cannot think of BLM without thinking of Bevelyn Beatty painting over BLM and shouting "JESUS MATTERS!" , who might actually be one of the most awesome people on the planet and the media shut her down.

She deserves the attention. Seems like nobody knows about it.

 

[DuckieLady]

So if I meet a truly racist person who hates blacks, would that not be an awesome opportunity to be respectful and show the greatness of the love of Christ??

You never know who God will lead you to touch.

“Bless those who curse you, and pray over those who take you away by force.”

Even if they don't listen to you, you can bless them by praying for them.

 

[Enoch111]

Calling someone a racist is personally attacking and is designed to shut down debate. However, pointing out that someone is embracing racist ideas seems to be more rebuking.

This is the right way to deal with controversial issues.

Today any black person can freely call any white person a White Supremacist (and get away with it). But the white person cannot (or will not) turn around and call that black person a Black Racist. That would be "Systemic Racism"!

Now did a Black Racist criminal recently kill five people and injure at least 40 others in Waukesha for absolutely no reason other than racism? That would be a fair assessment, but who has the guts to make that assessment today?

 

[Enoch111]

The blessings available for this world have been diminished because of hate.

Hatred and racism are being deliberately stirred up by the Leftists and Communists in America. This is an integral part of Marxist doctrine. Since there is no "class struggle" in America (where anyone can become the POTUS if he chooses to) the Communists in the USA (including Barack and Michelle Obama) have latched on to "race struggle" as a way to divide and destroy the country.

It is now up to right-thinking blacks to TOTALLY REPUDIATE the Communist Democrat party and all its Satanic agenda. Indeed, if American blacks were smart, they would start a Black Freedom Party of America and condemn all the Black Muslims and Black Racists. This would be a third political party which would oppose both the Democrats and the RINOs. Chances are that the Hispanics, Indians, etc. would support this party if it was fully committed to upholding the Constitution and the rule of law. Leftist blacks have destroyed all the cities of the USA.

 

[Wrangler]

So if I meet a truly racist person who hates blacks, would that not be an awesome opportunity to be respectful and show the greatness of the love of Christ??

That reminds me of a vid I saw on youtube of a converted White Supremacist. He went on a Southern radio station to tell his side of the story along with a Black Pastor.

The admitted racist was so disturbed by his well-dressed, articulate, polite, respectful opponent that he made it his mission to terrorize him. Mostly threatening phone calls. Even then, the racist hung up when the un-phased man of God remained calm, offering him blessings and prayers.

Furious, one day he approached the Black Pastor at a restaurant with 3 of his friends. He menacingly said as the dinner was served, "Whatever you do to that chicken, I am going to do to you." The Black Pastor smiled, picked up the chicken and kissed it!

The White Supremacist went to the lobby of the restaurant and laughed out loud.

While making the video, his friend, the Black Pastor was there to corroborate the transformation of how the racist's hate was replaced with love.

 

[amadeus]

...
What may be helpful is if you describe where you're coming from in the first place, like "I don't mean any harm...With all due respect..."

When it works, it is a great thing. It seems that too many people are more interested in proving their point and thus being the winner [in their own eyes] than they are in really bringing God's truth out into the light for others to see. Of course, just about no one who works that way would admit doing it as most often probably they do not believe they are doing it. Is ignorance an excuse?

The best Leader in a forum as in a church service setting is, I believe, the Holy Spirit. No carnal personal attacks and no unwarranted rebukes in that situation, but where is that place where only the Holy Spirit leads all of the time?

The carnal man is effectively a devil or a wolf in sheep's clothes. Any man quenching the Holy Spirit in him can play the part of the devil very well and does so. It is called the left hand of God, I believe.

Delusions exist in people bearing the Christian label. And under that guise sometimes out comes the rebuke and the defensive declaration that it is of God and therefore OK! It is too bad that on this forum moderators are necessary. They certainly are.

Bad moderators can be worse than none. Fortunately, we have some here who work hard to do it right!