The Smoke of their Torment Ascends Forever

[quietthinker]

pardon me, but it is explicitly speaking of the soul continuing to exist apart from the separation of the spirit from the body, being an entity distinct from the body, and 'going somewhere' not once but twice.

'insanity' is an abstract & non-specific description of a temporary state of mind. the soul is not, not as the scripture describes it. the soul is a definite & non-physical 'thing' unique to a person.

i mean, if we believe it.
but maybe some of us don't.

granted this doesn't have to be a point in Euclidean space -- we should hardly expect it is, because we are talking about a non-physical object. but the soul clearly can occupy a physical object ((the body)) even though it is itself non-physical.

only if one believes the Serpents lie, 'thou shalt not surely die'

 

[marks]

'Soul' is used in the context of reinstatement of life. It is not making a case for the soul going anywhere.
When one makes the statement, 'John returned from insanity' ...it is not saying that insanity is a place as you are suggesting in your question of 'where has the soul returned from'. To assume that it is reveals lack of understanding.

To whom did the witch of Endor speak, along with Saul?

Much love!

 

[marks]

only if one believes the Serpents lie, 'thou shalt not surely die'

So they died on that day, correct?

Much love!

 

[post]

only if one believes the Serpents lie, 'thou shalt not surely die'

define "death" ?

For Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;
neither wilt Thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(Psalm 16:10)

​

hell there is a poor translation. it's sheol.
according to scripture, at least some souls go there. some are left there & some are not left there.
they exist there; death is not cessation of existence but separation from life.
otherwise this and many other passages like it make no sense at all.


& how about Luke 16 for yet another example?
is Jesus a liar?
or is He giving an accurate worldview?

 

[quietthinker]

To whom did the witch of Endor speak, along with Saul?

Much love!

A Spirit (demon) masquerading as Samuel. That's why 'communing with the dead' was forbidden.

 

[marks]

A Spirit (demon) masquerading as Samuel. That's why 'communing with the dead' was forbidden.

Except the Bible says she spoke to Samuel. Your assertion is that is not to be believed?

My wife reminds me . . . demons and unclean spirits and angels and powers and princes are named. The Bible specifies all sorts of different personages, why would it be deceptive here?

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

So they died on that day, correct?

Much love!

They did, emotionally (relational) and spiritually just as the angels who rebelled against God did. Physically it set in motion a continual diminishment till finally the window of life shuts.
And in case you are curious marks, the angels who have been around for eons have for the lack of a better explanation a 'bigger battery' which is just as surely running down.....and when the battery is flat, ie no more charge, they also will expire.

 

[quietthinker]

define "death" ?

For Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;
neither wilt Thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(Psalm 16:10)

​

hell there is a poor translation. it's sheol.
according to scripture, at least some souls go there. some are left there & some are not left there.
they exist there; death is not cessation of existence but separation from life.
otherwise this and many other passages like it make no sense at all.


& how about Luke 16 for yet another example?
is Jesus a liar?
or is He giving an accurate worldview?

the exact opposite of life.....no life.

 

[post]

A Spirit (demon) masquerading as Samuel. That's why 'communing with the dead' was forbidden.

oh?
which verse in the account says that?

or is it just something you quietly think which has no basis in the text?

 

[marks]

They did, emotionally (relational) and spiritually just as the angels who rebelled against God did.

Is that a yes kind of? Or did they actually die? Really dead? Like the NT calls the unredeemed?

Physically it set in motion a continual diminishment till finally the window of life shuts.

What is the "window of life"? Aren't they dead? Didn't they die? So what is the "life"?

Much love!

 

[post]

the exact opposite of life.....no life.

yet the soul exists. it was no longer present in the boys body, and God put it back into the boys body, and the boy again lived, in the body.

that's what the scripture says.

Elijah did not pray "let a new copy of the boy's soul be created and deceive us into thinking the boy who was annihilated exists again"

Elijah prayed, let his soul return to him.

 

[post]

only if one believes the Serpents lie, 'thou shalt not surely die'

Elijah says the boys soul returns to him, as though it has departed.
not that it has ceased to exist.

the woman says the word of the LORD is in Elijah's mouth, and is true. ((1 Kings 17:24))
is this evidence she believes the lie of Satan, in your opinion?

 

[quietthinker]

Except the Bible says she spoke to Samuel. Your assertion is that is not to be believed?

My wife reminds me . . . demons and unclean spirits and angels and powers and princes are named. The Bible specifies all sorts of different personages, why would it be deceptive here?

Much love!

Its deception lies in the continuation of the lie, ' for God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil' Genesis 3:5 ....an answer cleverly couched in a partial truth....and what did they find after they ate? enlightenment as was promised by the deceiver? Everything went downhill and they returned to the ground from where they were taken. Did they go anywhere?, yeah...into the ground from where they were taken. Did they exist prior to being created? No; they were created from the dust of the ground created a few days earlier.

 

[quietthinker]

yet the soul exists. it was no longer present in the boys body, and God put it back into the boys body, and the boy again lived, in the body.

that's what the scripture says.

Elijah did not pray "let a new copy of the boy's soul be created and deceive us into thinking the boy who was annihilated exists again"

Elijah prayed, let his soul return to him.

You misappropriate the word 'soul' as if it were an entity independent from the body!

 

[post]

You misappropriate the word 'soul' as is it were an entity!

it is evident that on this topic Marks & i believe what is written, and you do not.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful,
and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit
(Hebrews 4:12)​

 

[quietthinker]

oh?
which verse in the account says that?

or is it just something you quietly think which has no basis in the text?

you do not know the scriptures which have been posted ad nauseam on this site on the same subject.. Why would you hear if I posted them again?

 

[post]

goodnight.

 

[quietthinker]

it is evident that on this topic Marks & i believe what is written, and you do not.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful,
and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit
(Hebrews 4:12)​

did the word of the Lord say, 'you shall not surely die'?

 

[marks]

Its deception lies in the continuation of the lie, ' for God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil' Genesis 3:5 ....an answer cleverly couched in a partial truth....and what did they find after they ate? enlightenment as was promised by the deceiver? Everything went downhill and they returned to the ground from where they were taken. Did they go anywhere?, yeah...into the ground from where they were taken. Did they exist prior to being created? No; they were created from the dust of the ground created a few days earlier.

You are saying that Bible is wrong when it says the witch of Endor spoke to someone other than Samuel, because the Bible says she did speak to Samuel, but you say that's wrong, that she didn't.

Can you guess which I'm going to believe?

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Is that a yes kind of? Or did they actually die? Really dead? Like the NT calls the unredeemed?



What is the "window of life"? Aren't they dead? Didn't they die? So what is the "life"?

Much love!

the text 'you shall surely die' can also be appropriately interpreted 'dying you will die'.....and you must know this marks.