Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

There is really too much to unpack here or respond to. This is better suited for a UR thread in the unorthodox theology department. So I won't do it here.

I have not got time for this as I am working on others

 

[TahitiRun]

I have not got time for this as I am working on others

No problem, thanks for your time though.

 

[marks]

I think "will show mercy" is really the better translation for the purpose clause. Although the verb is in the subjunctive mood, potentiality or possibility of God showing mercy to all is really not being called into question. The emphasis of the clause is to answer the question as to why God has concluded all in unbelief. And, the answer is: so that God will have mercy upon all. Not that He might or could have mercy, but rather that He will have mercy on the unbelief of all. Both of the Jew and Gentile alike.

I think the reason Paul uses the verb (Gk: ελεηση) in the aorist tense/subjunctive mood is because the event, from Paul's vantage point, has not yet occurred in time and is therefore not a statement of fact (ie: non-indicative). Consequently, the aorist tense is being viewed like a futuristic "snapshot" in time with certainty, though it's yet to have happened.

Anyway, just my thoughts here.

Yes this is one of those places where, I think, we can take away either point of view depending on what we think otherwise.

Is he saying, God has now provided Himself opportunity to show the mercy He intends to show, or is He saying that He's provided opportunity to show mercy that He may then go on to show?

I see both understandings valid, in my limited ability. I find the answer to be in the fact that God indeed shows mercy to all, but not all are born again.

All sins shall be forgiven man, said Jesus, but He also said You must be born again.

Much love!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

No problem, thanks for your time though.

You too. Iron sharpens iron. God bless

 

[quietthinker]

Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?
I s'pose if he wasn't he'd self destruct!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?
I s'pose if he wasn't he'd self destruct!

I see that you quote from Ellen G White, who was a heretic!

 

[quietthinker]

I see that you quote from Ellen G White, who was a heretic!

lol...did she say, 'I s'pose if he wasn't he'd self destruct!'....well that's news to me. Maybe you could give me the reference?......that is of course if you have read her.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

lol...did she say, 'I s'pose if he wasn't he'd self destruct!'....well that's news to me. Maybe you could give me the reference?......that is of course if you have read her.

This EVIL woman, who was a FALSE PROPHET from the devil, said that those who did not keep the Saturday Sabbath, and instead Worshipped the Lord God on Sundays, were to receive the "mark of the beast", and therefore damned to eternal punishment!

She is a LIAR, and represents her true father of LIES!

Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - Maranatha

 

[quietthinker]

This EVIL woman, who was a FALSE PROPHET from the devil, said that those who did not keep the Saturday Sabbath, and instead Worshipped the Lord God on Sundays, were to receive the "mark of the beast", and therefore damned to eternal punishment!

She is a LIAR, and represents her true father of LIES!

Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - Maranatha

The times are yet to come BGTF. Underestimating this reality will be the lot of many. I wouldn't be too quick in casting her into the categories you are presently keen to just because you've seen the smallest slice of what she's written.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The times are yet to come BGTF. Underestimating this reality will be the lot of many. I wouldn't be too quick in casting her into the categories you are presently keen to just because you've seen the smallest slice of what she's written.

I know what I know about EGW for almost 40 years, and not new to her demonic teachings, like the Investigative Judgement, which is RANK HERESY! What LIES she has said about people like myself who worship on Sunday, is clearly from the pit of hell!

 

[quietthinker]

I know what I know about EGW for almost 40 years, and not new to her demonic teachings, like the Investigative Judgement, which is RANK HERESY! What LIES she has said about people like myself who worship on Sunday, is clearly from the pit of hell!

My guess is that you have cherry picked from bash sites to justify your view over the last 40 yrs. Reading her more broadly would never get you to arrive at the conclusions you have.
Self honesty demands you lift your game on this. Lack of it keeps you in the morass of self imposed ignorance.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

My guess is that you have cherry picked from bash sites to justify your view over the last 40 yrs. Reading her more broadly would never get you to arrive at the conclusions you have.
Self honesty demands you lift your game on this. Lack of it keeps you in the morass of self imposed ignorance.

are you just being blind to keep on believing lies? I have linked from an official SDA site in #28, which shows that EGW did teach the DEMONIC HERESY that Sunday worshippers will be damned! How can this be from a "bash site"?

 

[farouk]

You too. Iron sharpens iron. God bless

Searching the Scriptures is healthy...

 

[quietthinker]

are you just being blind to keep on believing lies? I have linked from an official SDA site in #28, which shows that EGW did teach the DEMONIC HERESY that Sunday worshippers will be damned! How can this be from a "bash site"?

You're not seeing past your bias, your prejudice or your preference.
You might want to ask yourself this question. If on the off chance you saw that what she had to say broadly was was quiet different to what you've chosen to believe about her, would you give up your 40yr conclusions and pride for the sake of greater insight?

What it means of course is you will need to stay away from biased sites which quote selected portions for the sole aim of maligning and read her independently. You might start with 'Desire of Ages', an account of Jesus' life and see where your journey takes you?

If you won't allow yourself this fundamental right that any author deserves before being evaluated, I suppose you've become the plaything of any and all who have a maligning agenda.

 

[brightfame52]

Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

“And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15)

The phrase, “παση τη κτισει”, means, “to every creature”. The use of the singular, “παση” is important, as it means that the Gospel Message is not simply a “general” one, but to “every” human being!. This is exactly what the Apostle Paul says in Colossians 1:23, “if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister”

There are some who will argue from their theology, that all this means, is, that initially the Gospel Message was intended for the Jews only, and thereafter to the Gentiles also. However, while this is true, this does not mean that there is any “limitation” on who the Gospel was to be preached to. The entire world consists of just two groups, Jews and Gentiles. If you were the one, then you were not the other. But, this is the sum-total of the entire human race, and not the “majority”, or any other distinction.

What is The Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire human race? Paul tells us this in 1 Corinthians 15:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the Gospel which I preached to you... For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” (1, 3, 4)

Here it is very clear, that the Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire world, is, “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”

The Gospel Message is a universal one, to be proclaimed to not just some select groups, but to the entire human race, as the Bible clearly tells us. It is important to not what this Message consists of Biblically. “that Christ died for our sins”. It is clear from this, that the OUR must include the entire human race that this Gospel Message is to be proclaimed to. There is nothing here to suggest that it is only for the “elect”! Paul says in verse 11, “Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed”. That this Message had to be “believed” in, “by which you are also saved” (verse 2). In Acts chapter 13 we read of Paul’s preaching the Gospel to some Jews, “Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles” (v.46). These Jews “rejected” this Gospel Message, and “considered themselves unworthy of eternal life”, not what God “considered”. Here we have the two groups, the Jews, and the Gentiles (non Jews), who are the entire human race.

It is the One Gospel Message of Salvation from sins in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is to be proclaimed to the entire human race. There is no indication that this Message is to be proclaimed to any “select” few, as some falsely teach. This Gospel, Good News, is only that of Salvation, and not of damnation, which is not really “Good News” for anyone. If, as some suppose, that the Gospel of Salvation is intended for the “elect” only, then why does the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, and others, use universal language, which is clearly for the entire human race? Paul is very clear of this in Romans 11:32, “For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all”. God has “concluded” that the entire human race (τους παντας) is guilty of “disobedience”, the very sin that Adam and Eve were guilty of. Again, contextually we read of the Jews and Gentiles, which, as we know, are the sum-total of the human race. There is no exception. Paul then goes on to say, “that He may show mercy to all”. Notice that the Greek here is identical to the first part, “τους παντας”. This does not teach universal salvation, which is very clear from Paul’s use of “ελεηση”, which is in the subjunctive mood, “MIGHT (not WILL) show mercy”. The sinner must “repent and believe in the Gospel” (Mark 1:15), before they can be saved, as these are the two “conditions” that God has placed for any sinners salvation.

If the Gospel Message is universal, as the Bible clearly teaches, then, it must mean that the Death of Jesus Christ is also universal, as Paul has told us what this Gospel is, “that Christ died for our sins”, which is clearly universal! To suggest otherwise, is to say that God is insincere, when He commands “that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations (παντα τα εθνη), beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:46-47) Both the Jews and the Gentiles, the entire human race!

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36)

There is no such thing as a Gospel offer, thats a man made teaching.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes this is one of those places where, I think, we can take away either point of view depending on what we think otherwise.

Is he saying, God has now provided Himself opportunity to show the mercy He intends to show, or is He saying that He's provided opportunity to show mercy that He may then go on to show?

I see both understandings valid, in my limited ability. I find the answer to be in the fact that God indeed shows mercy to all, but not all are born again.

All sins shall be forgiven man, said Jesus, but He also said You must be born again.

Much love!

the verse is clear, that God will show Mercy to those who

There is no such thing as a Gospel offer, thats a man made teaching.

Read your BIBLE more and your WARPED theological books less!

When Jesus says, Many are CALLED...", the Greek is INVITED! Read the Account on the Marriage Feast INVITATIONS, which were REJECTED, by those to whom originally sent to! Luke 14.

 

[brightfame52]

the verse is clear, that God will show Mercy to those who


Read your BIBLE more and your WARPED theological books less!

When Jesus says, Many are CALLED...", the Greek is INVITED! Read the Account on the Marriage Feast INVITATIONS, which were REJECTED, by those to whom originally sent to! Luke 14.

You have been deceived, no such thing as a Gospel offer. The Gospel is Preached !

 

[TahitiRun]

You have been deceived, no such thing as a Gospel offer. The Gospel is Preached !

It's more than that, actually.

The Gospel is a proclamation of good news, a heralding of such. It's a proclamation to the world, to all souls therein, that Christ has died for your sins, was buried and was resurrected by God for it's attestation.

However, not everyone hears the proclamation, reconciles themselves to it, or believes it. And, consequently such proclamations (and it's testimony) is effectual in time, that is: "the testimony in it's own times" (1Ti 2:6). However, that does not negate the proclamation, itself. The Gospel is perpetual, to the eternal age, constant and abiding, (Gk: αιωνιον, Rev 14:6). For some, the proclamation is effectual in this age, for others in the age to come. But in the end, it's effectualness is willed by God for all:

1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1Ti 2:5 for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who did give himself a ransom for all—the testimony in its own times—

1Ti 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men—especially of those believing.
1Ti 4:11 Charge these things, and teach;

Some amazing scriptures to know and believe.

 

[reformed1689]

Preaching the Gospel to everyone is not insincere. The Gospel says all who believe will be saved. We do not know who the elect are. If you are preaching the TRUE Gospel, you do not give false hope to anyone. You preach that those who believe will be saved and that is 100% true. The others are without excuse.

 

[TahitiRun]

Is he saying, God has now provided Himself opportunity to show the mercy He intends to show, or is He saying that He's provided opportunity to show mercy that He may then go on to show?

The first example you gave. God acted decisively (or will act) on both counts of unbelief, with mercy:

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

I've given the KJV translation, however, the aorist tense/subjunctive mood of the verb "mercy" should, I believe, be translated as "will" when used in a purpose clause, as it is here for both. And, if it reads like universal salvation (or what will result therein), then it is what it is. I see no reason to guard particular doctrines held against it.