Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

[reformed1689]

Where specifically is that stated, with regards to the spirit of man?

Revelation. Let me ask you this, where does it say the spirit is reunited with God?

 

[TahitiRun]

Revelation. Let me ask you this, where does it say the spirit is reunited with God?

Do you have a verse in Revelation?

Solomon uses the term "return" for both flesh and spirit after death. Our spirit will be reunited with God, as it was, in the same sense that dust is reunited with the earth, as it was.

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[reformed1689]

Do you have a verse in Revelation?

Solomon uses the term "return" for both flesh and spirit after death. Our spirit will be reunited with God, as it was, in the same sense that dust is reunited with the earth, as it was.

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

That simply means death. It has nothing to do with where the soul ends up.

 

[TahitiRun]

That simply means death. It has nothing to do with where the soul ends up.

I'm waiting for your verse wherein God sets man's spirit (God's own breath, the very image of God in man) on fire, and that He does so for all eternity and for the purpose of torment. I don't believe you have one, but I'll continue waiting and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Do you know what the "soul" is?

 

[reformed1689]

I'm waiting for your verse wherein God sets man's spirit (God's own breath, the very image of God in man) on fire, and that He does so for all eternity and for the purpose of torment. I don't believe you have one, but I'll continue waiting and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Do you know what the "soul" is?

Already told you Revelation

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

If that were true, and it isn't, nobody goes to Hell.

you are being rather silly with this remarks!

 

[TahitiRun]

Already told you Revelation

I didn't think you actually had one. I've never read one either. It would have been better had you said so.

Regarding the soul as it pertains to the spirit of man and "where it ends up": Solomon distinctly states that the spirit of man returns to God. God being our spirit's eternal home. Here is the passage using a more modern translation (NASB):

Ecc 12:5 Furthermore, men are afraid of a high place and of terrors on the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags himself along, and the caperberry is ineffective. For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street.
Ecc 12:6 Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
Ecc 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

And, as Paul states, to be absent the body (ie: the body and it's fleshly nature that becomes dust and returns to the earth) is to be present with the Lord:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And, as such to be present with the Lord forever (1Th 4:17), as Solomon also stated (Ecc 12:5). Christ being the eternal home of our spirit.

 

[reformed1689]

I didn't think you actually had one. I've never read one either. It would have been better had you said so.

Regarding the soul as it pertains to the spirit of man and "where it ends up": Solomon distinctly states that the spirit of man returns to God. God being our spirit's eternal home. Here is the passage using a more modern translation (NASB):

Ecc 12:5 Furthermore, men are afraid of a high place and of terrors on the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags himself along, and the caperberry is ineffective. For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street.
Ecc 12:6 Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
Ecc 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

And, to be absent the body (the body and it's fleshly nature becomes dust that returns to the earth) is to be present with the Lord:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And, as such to be present with the Lord forever (1Th 4:17), as Solomon also stated (Ecc 12:5). Christ being the eternal home of our spirit.

You just look ignorant when you quote Ecc 12:7 to present your case. And 2 Cor 5:8 is talking about believers only. You really need to quit talking and start studying Scripture.

 

[reformed1689]

you are being rather silly with this remarks!

I'm sorry you think the truth is silly. I'm sorry you have a low view of God. I'm sorry you have a puny view of God who can't accomplish his purposes. You have a weak God which is not the true God.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I'm sorry you think the truth is silly. I'm sorry you have a low view of God. I'm sorry you have a puny view of God who can't accomplish his purposes. You have a weak God which is not the true God.

Rather be sorry for yourself and the deception you believe about God's desire for the entire human race to come to Jesus

 

[TahitiRun]

I'm not sure why it is that believing the spirit of man (for all souls, not just some) returns to God, and flesh becomes dust and returns to the earth is a difficult concept to grasp.

You just look ignorant when you quote Ecc 12:7 to present your case. And 2 Cor 5:8 is talking about believers only. You really need to quit talking and start studying Scripture.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Regarding 2 Cor 5:8 being limited to believers only. Scripture states otherwise, and Solomon does so three times in one verse:

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Job had this to say about man at death:

Job 30:23 For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.

Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

The appointed house for all living (for all live unto God) is God Himself, as stated in Ecc 12:7, and as Jesus affirms here:

Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

And, as Paul tells us too. All things were created in Him and for Him (Him being Christ):

Col 1:16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

There are many more such texts. Too many to quote here. The idea is not limited to a single verse, such as Ecc 12:7.

 

[reformed1689]

I'm not sure why it is that believing the spirit of man (for all souls, not just some) returns to God, and flesh becomes dust and returns to the earth is a difficult concept to grasp.
I'm sorry you feel that way.

Regarding 2 Cor 5:8 being limited to believers only. Scripture states otherwise, and Solomon does so three times in one verse:

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Job had this to say about man at death:

Job 30:23 For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.

Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

The appointed house for all living (for all live unto God) is God Himself, as stated in Ecc 12:7, and as Jesus affirms here:

Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

And, as Paul tells us too. All things were created in Him and for Him (Him being Christ):

Col 1:16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

There are many more such texts. Too many to quote here. The idea is not limited to a single verse, such as Ecc 12:7.

Such a sloppy and ignorant use of Scripture. No, Solomon is not talking about the soul. Tray again. And yes, 2 Cor. 5:8 is talking about believers. Look at who the book is written to. It is NOT written to non-believers.

 

[reformed1689]

Rather be sorry for yourself and the deception you believe about God's desire for the entire human race to come to Jesus

Where does it state that in context? It doesn't. No matter how badly you want world to mean individuals, no matter how much you want all men to refer to individuals and not groups, it doesn't. John 3 negates your theory about verse 16 in the following two verses. Some are condemned already so no, Christ was not sent to save all.

 

[TahitiRun]

Such a sloppy and ignorant use of Scripture. No, Solomon is not talking about the soul. Tray again. And yes, 2 Cor. 5:8 is talking about believers. Look at who the book is written to. It is NOT written to non-believers.

Sounds like the scriptures I posted hit a nerve...lol

Solomon is talking about the soul. What do you think the soul is? I asked you this question in a previous post and you didn't, or couldn't respond. Similar to you trying to find a text in Revelation that states God will eternally torment man's spirit (the very breath and image of God) in the lake of fire (which is actually an allegory of judgment against the flesh).

You'll also not find a correct and biblical answer in your Baptist confession of 1689 as to what the soul is. They were to busy stuffing pizza, lasagna and hot dogs in their mouths when they wrote it...lol. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Regarding 2Co 5:8: There are many things written to the body of Christ (as believers) that also include things, or that pertain also to unbelievers. And that was my point. Here are some other examples, taken from the same "book it's written to":

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If these texts were to only include believers to whom it was written, Paul would use term's such as "our", or "us", or "we", rather than separate his audience by using the term "them".

 

[TahitiRun]

Follow-up to previous post: I've got nothing against pizza, lasagna or hot dogs, for the record...lol

 

[reformed1689]

Sounds like the scriptures I posted hit a nerve...lol

Solomon is talking about the soul. What do you think the soul is? I asked you this question in a previous post and you didn't, or couldn't respond. Similar to you trying to find a text in Revelation that states God will eternally torment man's spirit (the very breath and image of God) in the lake of fire (which is actually an allegory of judgment against the flesh).

You'll also not find a correct and biblical answer in your Baptist confession of 1689 as to what the soul is. They were to busy stuffing pizza, lasagna and hot dogs in their mouths when they wrote it...lol. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Regarding 2Co 5:8: There are many things written to the body of Christ (as believers) that also include things, or that pertain also to unbelievers. And that was my point. Here are some other examples, taken from the same "book it's written to":

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If these texts were to only include believers to whom it was written, Paul would use term's such as "our", or "us", or "we", rather than separate his audience by using the term "them".

The Scriptures did not hit a nerve, your abuse of them hit a nerve. It's disgusting your mishandling of Scripture.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The Scriptures did not hit a nerve, your abuse of them hit a nerve. It's disgusting your mishandling of Scripture.

Pot calling the kettle comes to mind

 

[TahitiRun]

The Scriptures did not hit a nerve, your abuse of them hit a nerve. It's disgusting your mishandling of Scripture.

What is "disgusting" is your pontificating that God torments the spirit of man (God's own breath and image) in the lake of fire and that God does so for all eternity. Of which there is no such evidence to be found anywhere in scripture, let alone the book Revelation. You've simply conjured up this evil doctrine out of thin air. And to what end, I don't care to entertain further.

Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The Gospel is also a command, to believe in Jesus.

Much love!

The command is not to believe in Jesus but in the message He brought. Read Mar. 1:14-15. Jesus didn't say "believe in Me". He said "believe the gospel". Jesus put the spotlight on the Father and the message He was sent to deliver, not Himself.

 

[TahitiRun]

The command is not to believe in Jesus but in the message He brought. Read Mar. 1:14-15. Jesus didn't say "believe in Me". He said "believe the gospel". Jesus put the spotlight on the Father and the message He was sent to deliver, not Himself.

Actually, to believe on the Son (Jesus) was the message He was sent to deliver:

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Gospel of the Kingdom that was proclaimed by Jesus and the twelve apostles was more about the identity of who Christ was (Jesus). The Gospel of Grace, that Paul proclaimed to the Gentiles, was more about the work of Christ (Jesus' death, burial and resurrection). The Gospels (or Gospel with each having a different emphasis depending on it's audience) did overlap but were not identical. One to the Jew, the other to the Gentile. This is clear from what took place at the Jerusalem council (Gal 2:2 and Act 15:1-6) and also how the two groups were being justified (declared righteous) by/before God:

Rom 3:30 yes, also of nations; since one is God who shall declare righteous the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through the faith.

The phrases "by faith" for the Jew, and "through the faith" for the Gentile, were due to the different Gospel emphasis that was proclaimed by Paul and the 12 to their intended audiences.

I doubt many will agree with me on this, however.