Assurance of salvation.

[amadeus]

No, we can't hear other "spirits"

Are we then his sheep? Is it possible to a believer today to sin? What man knows he is finally and completely saved and a sheep who hears only His voice?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:4-5

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

No, we cannot obey heteros spirits but the Holy Spirit

No difference between a born from above person and that of Adam and Eve since they were sinless in perfection before they disobeyed/quote]
Why then were they able to disobey God if we are not?

No one can break the seal, once sealed by/with the Holy Spirit we belong to God in Christ and it is a covenant

To break the seal is to spoil to the fruit. My mother used to can every type of fruit and vegetable when I was growing up. The sealed jar kept the food edible for years... but once the seal was broken it quickly became inedible. To break it before it was to be consumed was unwise and foolish, but I did it at least once. It had to be thrown away.

Adam and Eve were foolish that one time and then...

No, God is NO respecter of persons.

Then what does Jesus mean here?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

Do not believers today with education, written Bibles, and the Holy Spirit within have more than the followers of Moses in the wilderness... yet all but two perished rather entering the Promised Land? "Much is given... much is required"

What did God want to see in the ones lost?
What does God want to see in us?

Reconsider what it means to be respecter of persons.

 

[amadeus]

Where are you going with this amadeus?
...

Where He leads us, should we not follow? No where else to go for alone what hope do any of us have?

 

[Johann]

Are we then his sheep? Is it possible to a believer today to sin? What man knows he is finally and completely saved and a sheep who hears only His voice?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:4-5

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

I choose to examine myself in the light of Scripture and God/Elohim dokimazo me, not by mere fallible man since we are all fallible.
Yes, all believers are committing acts of sin diametrically opposed to that of the unregenerate who live in a STATE of never ending sinning...dead in trespasses and sins.

Some are making a mere outward profession that they belong to Christ but deny Him by their style of live,...

We are written epistles there to be read by all men friend.

Thank you for the video clip. listening to it now.

Should you wish, we can discuss this in the start a conversation.

Shalom to you and family
J.

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, that abundant life is talking about here

we are all eternal. What is important is where we spend eternity. With God, or with Satan

You and your sons will be here with me
All go to the same place
There is only One Immortal, Who lives alone in unapproachable light

 

[Robert Gwin]

This makes no sense to me....
So SOME have hope. but not all. That does not give ME any hope
Jesus said come and he will give you rest. How can I have rest if I have no hope or assurance?
How can I claim I have hope in God if my hope is really based on me? (if salvation can be lost. my salvation is dependent on doing something, or failing to do something)



Again, Just because some think they are saved does not mean they are. And to use that because some think they are saved to prove people can lose salvation is self defeating. You can;t lose something you do not have.

As for people thinking they are saved,

Jesus said many will come just like this, Who say have we not done all these great works in your name.

What will jesus reply be to those who thought they were saved?

Depart from me FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.

He never knew them, why? even though they THOUGHT they were saved, they were never saved. They did not lose security, salvation or eternal life. they never had it.

I think everybody has hope sir. I don't know one person who doesn't, who has any mentality whatsoever. Thinking about it, I would say hope is created into just about every thinking creature. My dog hopes that every time I eat I will give her some. What we are talking about here is Biblical hope, no doubt everyone who posts here will have hope, you used the words: "that don't give me hope", yet you have hope. Hope is a quality we all have, but how great it is when our hope is in line with Scripture, based on the promises of God.

Jehovah gives a real hope Greatful. He offers everlasting life for all those who choose it sir, that hope is just as real as He is. As I mentioned, it will come about for all who choose life, will you choose life? Before you choose however, life is not there for the asking, if you choose life, you accept the requirements as well.

You mentioned one hope of being saved, and then correctly noted that they were not saved, did you pick up on the reason that their hope was false? The account is found at Mat 7:21-23

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, indeed, if we pass the test. God provided the means for anyone to make it. Many will not because they are not interested at all or they unwilling to use what God has provided to strive. Our striving will not alone do it, but God seeing our efforts can and does fill in the gaps for people who love Him enough to make the effort. How much love is enough?

Interestingly the Bible says that as many as the grains of the sand of the sea will follow satan. That always puzzled me, why would perfect people who has seen the contrast side with satan? Doing a little research on the grains of sand being so very numerous I found that in several places that term occurs to designate innumerableness or great abundance. (Ge 22:17; 32:12; 41:49; Jos 11:4; Ps 78:27; 139:17, 18; Jer 15:8; Heb 11:12) But the number in question is not astronomically great in each case. To the beholder, however, the number of persons or things involved is so great that the actual number cannot be ascertained. For example, one part of the Philistine forces that came against Israel in the days of King Saul is described as “people like the grains of sand that are upon the seashore for multitude.” (1Sa 13:5) The number of those that would be misled by Satan following his release from the abyss, as seen by John in vision, was said to be “as the sand of the sea,” that is, the number was great enough that John could not determine how many there would be Re 20:8.

 

[Robert Gwin]

“I came that you might have death, more abundantly”

Hi Byrd, might you expand this a bit sir?

 

[Johann]

Are we then his sheep? Is it possible to a believer today to sin? What man knows he is finally and completely saved and a sheep who hears only His voice?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:4-5

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

Interestingly the Bible says that as many as the grains of the sand of the sea will follow satan. That always puzzled me, why would perfect people who has seen the contrast side with satan? Doing a little research on the grains of sand being so very numerous I found that in several places that term occurs to designate innumerableness or great abundance. (Ge 22:17; 32:12; 41:49; Jos 11:4; Ps 78:27; 139:17, 18; Jer 15:8; Heb 11:12) But the number in question is not astronomically great in each case. To the beholder, however, the number of persons or things involved is so great that the actual number cannot be ascertained. For example, one part of the Philistine forces that came against Israel in the days of King Saul is described as “people like the grains of sand that are upon the seashore for multitude.” (1Sa 13:5) The number of those that would be misled by Satan following his release from the abyss, as seen by John in vision, was said to be “as the sand of the sea,” that is, the number was great enough that John could not determine how many there would be Re 20:8.

Question is.
Have you past the test Amadeus?

How is the Spirit co-witnessing with your spirit?

Is it one test/dokimazo...or numerous?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not true at all. For the Born again Christian:

Rom 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

That is a very true statement Bob, but they are not saved unless they endure to the end. Born again ones can and do leave God. One difference though, if they apostatize, it is over for them Heb 6:4-6

 

[Robert Gwin]

You have completely perverted the meaning of the gift of eternal life which is in the present tense (1 John 5:12,13). And you have also contradicted the Bible. Every English translation says the exact same thing, with some of the well-known translations shown below.

King James Bible
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

New American Standard Bible
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

New International Version
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

English Standard Version
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

When we quote Scripture we are quoting the words of God the Holy Spirit. So contradicting Him will have serious consequences.

I hate to burst your bubble Enoch, the oldest human on record still living is 119 yrs old. The simple truth is sir, if everlasting life happens, it will have to be a future event.

 

[Johann]

That is a very true statement Bob, but they are not saved unless they endure to the end. Born again ones can and do leave God. One difference though, if they apostatize, it is over for them Heb 6:4-6

Mat_24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall he saved.
Again our Saviour reminded his disciples of the personal responsibility of each one of them in such a time of trial and testing as they were about to pass through. He would have them remember that it is not the man who starts in the race, but the one who runs to the goal, who wins the prize: “He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

If this doctrine were not supplemented by another, there would be but little good tidings for poor, tempted, tried and struggling saints in such words as these.

Who among us would persevere in running the heavenly race if God did not preserve us from falling, and give us persevering grace? But, blessed be his name, “the righteous shall hold on his way.” “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

A present reality Robert

I hate to burst your bubble Enoch, the oldest human on record still living is 119 yrs old. The simple truth is sir, if everlasting life happens, it will have to be a future event.

That is a very true statement Bob, but they are not saved unless they endure to the end. Born again ones can and do leave God. One difference though, if they apostatize, it is over for them Heb 6:4-6

PERSEVERE

The biblical doctrines related to the Christian life are difficult to explain because they are presented in typically eastern dialectical pairs These pairs seem contradictory, yet both are biblical.

Western Christians have tended to choose one truth and ignore or depreciate the opposite truth. Let me illustrate.

1. Is salvation an initial decision to trust Christ or a lifetime commitment to discipleship?
2. Is salvation an election by means of grace from a sovereign God or mankind's believing and repentant response to a divine offer?
3. Is salvation, once received, impossible to lose, or is there a need for continual diligence?

 The issue of perseverance has been contentious throughout church history. The problem begins with apparently conflicting passages of the NT:

1. texts on assurance
   1. statements of Jesus (John 6:37; 10:28-29)
   2. statements of Paul (Rom. 8:35-39; Eph. 1:13; 2:5,8-9; Phil. 1:6; 2:13; 2 Thess. 3:3; 2 Tim. 1:12; 4:18)
   3. statements of Peter ( 1 Pet. 1:4-5)
2. texts on the need for perseverance
   1. statements of Jesus (Matt. 10:22; 13:1-9,24-30; 24:13; Mark 13:13; John 8:31; 15:4-10; Rev. 2:7,17,26; 3:5,12,21)
   2. statements of Paul (Rom. 11:22; 1 Cor. 15:2; 2 Cor. 13:5; Gal. 1:6; 3:4; 5:4; 6:9; Phil. 2:12; 3:18-20; Col. 1:23; 2 Tim. 3:2)
   3. statements of the author of Hebrews (Heb. 2:1; 3:6,14; 4:14; 6:4-12; 10:26-27)
   4. statements of John (1 John 2:6; 2 John 9)
   5. statement of the Father (Rev. 21:7)

Biblical salvation issues from the love, mercy, and grace of a sovereign Triune God. No human can be saved without the initiation of the Spirit (cf. John 6:44,65). Deity comes first and sets the agenda, but demands that humans must respond in faith and repentance, both initially and continually. God works with mankind in a covenant relationship. There are privileges and responsibilities!

Salvation is offered to all humans (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; 4:42; 1 Tim. 2:4; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). Jesus' death dealt with the fallen creation's sin problem (cf. Mark 10:45; John 1:29; 2 Cor. 5:21). God has provided a way and wants all those made in His image to respond to His love and provision in Jesus.

 

[Johann]

That is a very true statement Bob, but they are not saved unless they endure to the end. Born again ones can and do leave God. One difference though, if they apostatize, it is over for them Heb 6:4-6

Mat_24:13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall he saved.
Again our Saviour reminded his disciples of the personal responsibility of each one of them in such a time of trial and testing as they were about to pass through. He would have them remember that it is not the man who starts in the race, but the one who runs to the goal, who wins the prize: “He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

If this doctrine were not supplemented by another, there would be but little good tidings for poor, tempted, tried and struggling saints in such words as these.

Who among us would persevere in running the heavenly race if God did not preserve us from falling, and give us persevering grace? But, blessed be his name, “the righteous shall hold on his way.” “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

A present reality Robert

 

[Johann]

That is a very true statement Bob, but they are not saved unless they endure to the end. Born again ones can and do leave God. One difference though, if they apostatize, it is over for them Heb 6:4-6

 

[amadeus]

Question is.
Have you past the test Amadeus?

I have likely passed tests, but have I passed the test?

How is the Spirit co-witnessing with your spirit?

When a person who has received the Holy Spirit, rather than submitting to the lead of the Holy Spirit, quenches the Spirit repeatedly, he is in a whole lot of trouble with God.

In my experience in even the best of church settings, people are too often taught to quench the Spirit and are regularly do just exactly that. Some churches are much worse than others...

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them" Matt 18:20

Where is that, in his name, that is? It certainly means more than speaking aloud the word, "Jesus", doesn't it?

Is it one test/dokimazo...or numerous?

There are many tests, but ultimately, I believe, the whole of our allotted time, is one test.

I am reminded of my chemistry class in high school. I just dawdled along in there, especially during lectures, reading novels instead of paying attention to the teacher. My tests results too often during the term showed my lack of attention as well. Then at the end of the school year there was one big final examination. I got into that one and received the highest score in the class.

The teacher gave me an A for the whole class even though my several earlier tests had fallen very short of such a result. I do not recommend such a route to students, but for me that time, it worked.

God is interested in our progress and will help us along the way if we are seeking first things first, but is not the final end result the most important thing?

When do get around to always putting first things, according to God] first?

"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep" John 21:15-17

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[Johann]

I have likely passed tests, but have I passed the test?


When a person who has received the Holy Spirit, rather than submitting to the lead of the Holy Spirit, quenches the Spirit repeatedly, he is in a whole lot of trouble with God.

In my experience in even the best of church settings, people are too often taught to quench the Spirit and are regularly do just exactly that. Some churches are much worse than others...

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them" Matt 18:20

Where is that, in his name, that is? It certainly means more than speaking aloud the word, "Jesus", doesn't it?

There are many tests, but ultimately, I believe, the whole of our allotted time, is one test.

I am reminded of my chemistry class in high school. I just dawdled along in there, especially during lectures, reading novels instead of paying attention to the teacher. My tests results too often during the term showed my lack of attention as well. Then at the end of the school year there was one big final examination. I got into that one and received the highest score in the class.

The teacher gave me an A for the whole class even though my several earlier tests had fallen very short of such a result. I do not recommend such a route to students, but for me that time, it worked.

God is interested in our progress and will help us along the way if we are seeking first things first, but is not the final end result the most important thing?

When do get around to always putting first things, according to God] first?

"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep" John 21:15-17

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Do you abstain from fleshly lusts?
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

 

[amadeus]

Hi Byrd, might you expand this a bit sir?

@bbyrd009 , I believe, means, as Jesus did and does, that Life is for now, but too many believers are looking for something up there and/or after a while. They are mostly into death now not realizing, that they are abiding mostly in death now and that likely for them there will be no up there and/or after a while.

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

 

[bbyrd009]

oh daughters of jerusalem, dont find love until you are ready

Hi Byrd, might you expand this a bit sir?

well, Jesus said life, more abundantly, right. Here, now. And i guess you might notice that despite all the Christian infighting, “death more abundantly” is the one thing that is not argued, at all, i dont think?

 

[bbyrd009]

No, we can't hear other "spirits"

No, we cannot obey heteros spirits but the Holy Spirit

No difference between a born from above person and that of Adam and Eve since they were sinless in perfection before they disobeyed

?
why make statements of fact that might be demonstrated to be inaccurate

 

[Johann]

@bbyrd009 , I believe, means, as Jesus did and does, that Life is for now, but too many believers are looking for something up there and/or after a while. They are mostly into death now not realizing, that they are abiding mostly in death now and that likely for them there will be no up there and/or after a while.

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2Ti 2:19 Al kol panim (nevertheless), the solid yesod of Hashem stands firm and zicher (certain), having this seal: V'YODA' Hashem ES ASHER LO ("Hashem KNOWS THE ONES WHO ARE HIS" BAMIDBAR 16:5); and let everyone who names the name of Hashem depart from avel (iniquity, gross injustice)
OJB

2Ti 2:19 Aber der feste Grund Gottes besteht und hat dieses Siegel: Der HERR kennt die seinen; und: Es trete ab von Ungerechtigkeit, wer den Namen Christi nennt.

אַךְ יְסוֹד הָאֱלֹהִים יָקוּם לָנֶצַח וְזֶה הוּא חוֹתָמוֹ יוֹדֵעַ יְהוָֹה אֵת אֲשֶׁר־לוֹ וְגַם זֶה מִי אֲשֶׁר יִקְרָא בְשֵׁם הַמָּשִׁיחַ יֶחְדַּל מֵעֲשׂוֹת אָוֶן׃

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Jn 4:1 Chaverim, do not believe every ruach. [YIRMEYAH 29:8] But test the ruchot (spirits), if they be of Hashem, because many nevi'ei sheker have gone out into the Olam Hazeh.
OJB

1Jn 4:1 Ihr Lieben, glaubet nicht einem jeglichen Geist, sondern prüfet die Geister, ob sie von Gott sind; denn es sind viel falsche Propheten ausgegangen in die Welt.

דידי אל־תאמינו לכל־רוח כי אם־בחנו הרוחות אם־מאלהים המה כי נביאי שקר רבים באו לעולם׃

 

[amadeus]

Do you abstain from fleshly lusts?
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

If I am hearing His voice and following always His lead, never quenching the Spirit then I am abstaining.