The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Zao is life]

Many within your 'mischief' love to point out that context is everything.

If the nonsense, that you are struggling to support with extra-biblical sources, were even close to accurate, there would be very clear context around that verse to support it.

There is none.

"Context is everything!"

Right?

Why don't you just address the scriptures I quoted, the Greek words and their meaning, and attempt to show me where I'm "wrong" about what I said?

I think the way you react is more telling than you imagine.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 20:7, num-nuts.

Revelation 20:7 is not written in Revelation 16:12-16.

Try again. Without adding words to Revelation 16:12-16.

 

[Earburner]

Mark 6:16
"But hearing Herod said, It is John, whom I beheaded. He has risen from the dead!"

Herod associated beheading with physical death. Surely it's natural that the reader of the Revelation would also associate beheading with physical death?

Would the reader of the Revelation associate souls living and reigning with Christ, following their having been beheaded, with resurrection from death?

This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. And when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be loosed out of his prison. (Revelation 20:5-7).

Humans having been beheaded is only mentioned twice in the New Testament. Beheading and the concept of resurrection are also spoken of in the same context twice.

I suppose it's just coincidence. No one should associate the word resurrection with the word living. It's nonsense. We should especially not associate it with beheading for refusal to worship the beast or his image or receive his mark upon the forehead, just because the passage associates the mention of resurrection with all these things. I mean, really, what sort of exegesis is that?

To get to the point, EVERY Born Again Christian, from Pentecost to today, has reigned WITH Christ, during their lifetime, in the Age of God's Grace.

 

[GEN2REV]

Why don't you just address the scriptures I quoted, the Greek words and their meaning, and attempt to show me where I'm "wrong" about what I said?

I think the way you react is more telling than you imagine.

Because I address the Scripture directly and that's all I need to address.

The context within 1 Cor. 15 doesn't even hint at a scenario such as your ilk wish to sell.

I have no need to look any further. God has furnished me with His Word. To destroy all fallacies and strongholds of the enemy.

 

[GEN2REV]

Revelation 20:7 is not written in Revelation 16:12-16.

Try again. Without adding words to Revelation 16:12-16.

Pitiful

 

[Zao is life]

To get to the point, EVERY Born Again Christian, from Pentecost to today, has reigned WITH Christ, during their lifetime, in the Age of God's Grace.

The other side of that coin is that Revelation 20 symbolizes our baptism into Christ's death as being beheaded (which would be the only place in the entire New Testament where such a bizarre and disjointed analogy is made).

Every single verse talking about resurrection in the New Testament is talking about the resurrection of the body (soma) from the dead. Without exceptions.

If you can quote a verse (just one verse) in the New Testament that is an exception to the rule, then we can continue to discuss your addition to scripture by your giving it a meaning the text does not give it.

There is a very long list of New Testament verses that I can quote for you talking about the resurrection. Not one of them is not talking about the resurrection of the body.

 

[Marty fox]

To get to the point, EVERY Born Again Christian, from Pentecost to today, has reigned WITH Christ, during their lifetime, in the Age of God's Grace.

Amen

 

[Zao is life]

Because I address the Scripture directly and that's all I need to address.

The context within 1 Cor. 15 doesn't even hint at a scenario such as your ilk wish to sell.

I have no need to look any further. God has furnished me with His Word. To destroy all fallacies and strongholds of the enemy.

You've created your own fallacies. But it's not God who's helped you do that.

 

[Earburner]

I'd hardly call Strongs a new age peddling source.

You make out like you understand the nature of God. That's new-age. Pride. Believing you can understand God.

And all because I said that IMO Time only exists because God exists, and Time (like the creation) will always exist, has always existed and exists this moment because God exists.

That opened your treasure-chest of accusations that you don't get from Christ. Where do you get them from?

But what about God's NEW Creation? What do you know about that, where for them, this world will not be needed or required?

 

[GEN2REV]

You've created your own fallacies. But it's not God who's helped you do that.

So God just put a beautiful point of argument on my heart.

Upon a Google search, I found that there are over 100 different English translations of the Bible.

If there was even the slightest sliver of truth to the argument that you are waving about, at least one of these versions of Scripture would contain something about it in 1 Cor. 15.

I challenge you to produce just one version of Scripture; KJV, NIV, NLV, etc., that supports your ridiculous claim that 'then' in 1 Corinthians 15:24 refers to 1,000 years later.

We'll be waiting.

 

[Zao is life]

But what about God's NEW Creation? What do you know about that, where for them, this world will not be needed or required?

So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 1 Corinthians 5:17
And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:5

The New Heavens and the New Earth is in Christ.

..that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it? But if we hope for that which we do not see, then we wait for it with patience. Romans 8:21-25

The New Heavens and the New Earth is in Christ. It's not a completely different universe. It's a regeneration in Christ:

And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

The word "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 is the same word used in Galatians 4:9.

Mark 4
26 And He said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;
27 and should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knows not how.
28 For the earth brings out fruit of itself, first the blade, then the ear, after that the full grain in the ear.
29 But when the fruit has been brought out, immediately he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.
30 And He said, to what shall we compare the kingdom of God? Or by what parable shall we compare it?
31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that are in the earth.
32 But when it has been sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out great branches, so as to enable the birds of the air to roost under its shade.
33 And with many such parables He spoke the Word to them, as they were able to hear it.
34 But he did not speak to them without a parable. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.

1 Corinthians 15
35 But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come?
36 Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
37 And what you sow, you do not sow the body that is going to be, but a bare grain (perhaps of wheat or of some of the rest).
38 And God gives it a body as it has pleased Him, and to each of the seeds its own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh; but one kind of flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fish, and another of birds.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;
41 one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
42 So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a world now that will be regenerated. This is what "New heavens and earth" means.

 

[Earburner]

And all Amil are wrong. Premil do not view those in the 5th Seal as only NT saints. You just claimed they were only the OT saints, so you pointed out your own error.

Those redeemed souls in the 5th Seal are the whole body of Christ from Abel until the Second Coming. All 6,000 years of humanity in sin and death, redeemed by the blood of Christ.

Now who has to take a literal reading to point out tribulation martyred? The 5th Seal is the symbolism meaning the entire body of Christ, ie the church. Under the alter is not literal. It is being redeemed. Souls are not literal. They all have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Martyred is not literal martyrdom. It is the crucifying one's flesh on a daily basis.

The 5th Seal is not even about death. The whole point of the 5th Seal is putting on the robe of white. That is literally being glorified. That is the whole church putting on immortality, the robe of white, at the Second Coming. The 5th and 6th Seal is literally the one and only Second Coming, and a lot of bad stuff happens after the Second Coming for months and perhaps years.

Both Amil and pre-mill take a literal stance on the 5th and 6th Seal and totally miss what the symbolism is all about. This is Paul's rapture Second Coming event from the perspective of Paradise instead of looking up from earth. John and Jesus are on their way down to the Mount of Olives to start the final harvest. Paul's view is us alive and remain looking up at the Second Coming from earth.

You all avoid the symbolism and fail to see the truth, because you all stick to wooden literal thoughts accusing each other of doing the same thing.

Those in Revelation 20:4 are not the church. They are not martyrs. They are the last generation who somehow missed accepting Christ as a redeemed saint, whose only chance at keeping their names in the Lamb's book of life is to literally cut their literal physical heads off.

That verse is not symbolic. If Satan literally rules on the throne from the temple in Jerusalem for 42 months after the Second Coming, humans will literally have to cut off their heads to accept the Atonement. Otherwise there is no need for those 42 months. All of humanity will be condemned at the 7th Trumpet, and will literally die. None of Adam's flesh and blood enter the Millennium. The Millennium is not in the here and now, because we all are still Adam's flesh and blood. Until the soul leaves this body, and this body returns to dust, Adam's flesh and blood is still corrupting God's creation.

Yes this corruptible body is quickened by the Holy Spirit as long as the flesh is not in charge. We are reigning, as long as we submit. But it is a daily battle, and the flesh is not defeated, until it is literally dead. Crucifying the flesh daily is keeping it in it's dead state. So this is not living, as life only begins when the soul gets to Paradise. And you all think it has to keep living in limbo under an alter as literal souls, cause you reject there is currently those in permanent incorruptible physical bodies enjoying Paradise.

Twould be funny if God actually made you all live out your beliefs after this physical existence instead of His perfect plan.

One question to ask yourself, when did you realize that you actually had received the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, and had become born again?
That is when you received the Righteousness of God, which is what the "White robes" symbolize.
However, if you have no knowledge of ever receiving God's Holy Spirit, then you should study Romans 8:8-9 ASAP.

 

[Zao is life]

So God just put a beautiful point of argument on my heart.

Upon a Google search, I found that there are over 100 different English translations of the Bible.

If there was even the slightest sliver of truth to the argument that you are waving about, at least one of these versions of Scripture would contain something about it in 1 Cor. 15.

I challenge you to produce just one version of Scripture; KJV, NIV, NLV, etc., that supports your ridiculous claim that 'then' in 1 Corinthians 15:24 refers to 1,000 years later.

We'll be waiting.

I challenge you to start approaching all the scriptures with more maturity than you have been displaying here. Your posts are full of insults and personal attacks and devoid of scriptural substance.

 

[GEN2REV]

I challenge you to start approaching all the scriptures with more maturity than you have been displaying here.

I am but a little child awaiting your response to my challenge of supplying us with the version of Scripture that presents your silly fairy tale of 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Matthew 18:3

 

[Keraz]

I challenge you to produce just one version of Scripture; KJV, NIV, NLV, etc., that supports your ridiculous claim that 'then' in 1 Corinthians 15:24 refers to 1,000 years later.

I see 1 Corinthians 15:24, as being 1000 years after verse 23.
I base this belief on the clear fact that verse 23 refers to the Return and verse 24 refers to the Great White Throne Judgment, as plainly stated in Revelation 20; to be a thousand years after the Return.
Also proved by 1 Corinthians 15:25-28, where it says the Jesus will reign until all things are subject to Him, then He will become subject to God.

Your critical comments in this matter rebound badly upon yourself.

 

[GEN2REV]

I see 1 Corinthians 15:24, as being 1000 years after verse 23.
I base this belief on the clear fact that verse 23 refers to the Return and verse 24 refers to the Great White Throne Judgment, as plainly stated in Revelation 20; to be a thousand years after the Return.
Also proved by 1 Corinthians 15:25-28, where it says the Jesus will reign until all things are subject to Him, then He will become subject to God.

Your critical comments in this matter rebound badly upon yourself.

Yeah that post didn't work as well as you feign it did.

The debate was attempting to prove Rev. 20 with the claim that 'then' in 1 Cor. 15:24 means 1,000 years later.

You are now trying to prove the claim of 1 Cor. 15:24 with Rev. 20.

That's circular reasoning and we still haven't progressed an inch.

There is still no version of Scripture that supports that meaning for the word 'then' in 1 Cor. 15:24.

Nice try.

 

[ewq1938]

Unfortunately, Premils want to see martyrdom in a myopic view of only being in the "end time church", thereby wanting to forget all about the martyrdoms of the past 2000+/- years, as if how they were martyred doesn't matter, unless they were beheaded.

Not a word of this is true about Premillennialism. Amillennialism has to make up lies like this because that apparently is the standard practice.

 

[GEN2REV]

Not a word of this is true about Premillennialism. Amillennialism has to make up lies like this because that apparently is the standard practice.

Amil doesn't even need the title.

It just follows Scripture as it is written.

Pre-Millennialism, which had its title first, needs the distinction of an official sounding title to sate the desires of men for acknowledgment and acceptance among their esteemed colleagues. A doctrine that leaves people confused and dependent upon those "authorities" of Scriptures that are far too complicated for the common man to understand on their own.

Like all False Doctrine, nobody ever studied the Bible on their own, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and came away with an understanding of the concept of Pre-Mil. It is a doctrine of men (demons) that must be taught to be fully understood; and even then, it leaves one confused as to how the rest of Scripture coincides with its dysfunctional parts and pieces.

In the end, the curious Christian must simply submit to the vast intelligence of the Seminary-trained Bible authorities and accept their ignorance of God's Word, never to understand the Bible without an official Pastor/Preacher to tell it to them.

It is just as it has been for thousands of years.

Pre-Mil is a lie and a hoax - and very easily proven to be so.

 

[Earburner]

Not a word of this is true about Premillennialism. Amillennialism has to make up lies like this because that apparently is the standard practice.

Then you agree that Revelation 20:4 is speaking of all martyrs during the Age of God's Grace.
If not, then you are saying that God shall give preferential treatment to only those martyrs that are beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast, during the era of the end time church.

Iows, all other forms of martyrdom, since the stoning of Stephen, God considers those forms of martyrdom as being unworthy, in comparison to being beheaded.

 

[ewq1938]

Then you agree that Revelation 20:4 is speaking of all martyrs during the Age of God's Grace.

Nope. Revelation 20 addresses one specific group that was beheaded in the Great Tribulation for not taking the mark etc. Now, all the dead in Christ will rise at that same time but John only was shown one group.

If not, then you are saying that God shall give preferential treatment to only those martyrs that are beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast, during the era of the end time church.

Also no.

Iows, all other forms of martyrdom, since the stoning of Stephen, God considers those forms of martyrdom as being unworthy, in comparison to being beheaded.

No, this is a strawman fallacy that no one believes in.