The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

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Jim B

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LOL. A Leftist is what a Leftist does, thinks, says, etc.

Your aregument is even though I look, sound and fly like a duck ...

Typical close-minded nonsense. Categorize a whole bunch of people under one condemning label. Every dictator convinces people to think like that. Look how successful Putin is, using the same propaganda technique. Hitler was the master!

"Your aregument [sic] is even though I look, sound and fly like a duck ..." is total immature, unthinking nonsense. No wonder you believe the propaganda!

"Four legs good, two legs bad" (George Orwell in "Animal Farm" You should read it!)
 

Grailhunter

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This actually happened....a funny.

Had a friend of mine asked me why I carried a .45 all the time?

I asked him why he had a spare tire?

He said, In case I need it if I get a flat.

I said, If you need a gun and you do not have one, you are probably going to die. LOL

God, Guns, and Guts! Praise the Lord!
 
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quietthinker

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I know you like the verse where Jesus tells Peter to put the sword away. Can't recall your commenting honestly about Jesus telling us to sell our coat to buy a sword, if we don't have one already.
Soo, is anyone asking what is going on here? ie the swords thing. It appears not.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Are you trying to find loop holes in scripture and novel meanings and to imagine as you, of what Christ felt and was thinking on them buying two swords for protection. Interesting that you believe it was just for fulfillment of scripture, and then to what end? And why only a sword(s) then? It would be logical that Christ was advising, preparing and training them for their missions after he exited this earth, to know they would be in austere and barren lands where wild animals and wild people they would confront at times.

I will let this Christian article hopefully provide a better answer than I can give.

GO BUY A SWORD!” LUKE 22 AND CHRISTIAN GUNSLINGERS

By: Preston Sprinkle

Whenever I talk about Christians and violence, guns and self-defense, it’s inevitable that

Luke 22 will come up. Supposedly, this passage supports the view that Jesus wants his followers to pack some heat while they go about preaching the kingdom of God. Jerry Fallwell Jr. recently used this passage to show that Christians should arm themselves so that “we could end those Muslims before they walked in…” Better think twice before bringing your muslim friends to hear the gospel at a Liberty chapel. They may be met with the good news of Smith & Wesson before they hear about a crucified Lamb.

John Piper has recently called Fallwell out for using sloppy exegesis of this passage. And Piper is right. Without further ado, here’s Jesus’s supposed command to “end those Muslims” with our guns:

And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:35-38)

So, Jesus tells them to go buy a sword, and lo and behold, two of them (probably Peter and Simon the Zealot) had swords already. “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” Jesus ends the discussion with a curious phrase: “It is enough.” Which raises the question: enough for what?

This has always struck me as odd, since two swords for 11 disciples are not enough for self-defense, especially if they go out two by two as they did before. Plus, nowhere else does Jesus allow for violence in self-defense. Is Jesus now adding some footnotes to his Sermon on the Mount?

A few years ago I remember searching 10 of the most respected commentators on Luke—many of whom definitely aren’t pacifists—to see if I was the only one who thought the “violent self-defense” view was a bit odd. I wasn’t. Of the 10, I found only 1 that took the self-defense view. And he didn’t give any scriptural support for this view.

The late New Testament scholar I. Howard Marshall says that the command to buy a sword is “a call to be ready for hardship and self-sacrifice.” Darrell Bock says that the command to buy a sword symbolically “points to readiness and self-sufficiency, not revenge.” Catholic scholar Joseph Fitzmyer writes, “The introduction of the ‘sword’ signals” that “the Period of the Church will be marked with persecution,” which of course we see throughout the book of Acts. And the popular Reformed commentator, William Hendrickson, puts it bluntly: “The term sword must be interpreted figuratively.”

As I searched and searched, I couldn’t find any credible, non-pacifist Bible scholar who argued that Luke 22 is talking about self-defense. (I’ve since found that Wayne Grudem also assumes the self-defense view, but again, with little to no biblical argument and he doesn’t wrestle with the other contextual features that go against this view.)

So when Jesus tells them to buy a sword, he could be speaking figuratively about imminent persecution. According to this interpretation, when the disciples eagerly reveal that they already have two swords, they misunderstand Jesus’ figurative language (this wasn’t the first time). When Jesus sees that his disciples misunderstand him, he ends the dialogue with, “It is enough,” which means something like “enough of this conversation.”

This interpretation makes good sense in light of the context. But there’s another interpretation that I think does slightly more justice to the passage.

Notice that right after Jesus says “buy a sword,” he quotes Isaiah 53:12, which predicts that Jesus would be “numbered with the transgressors”(Luke 22:37). Then, the disciples reveal that they already have two swords, to which Jesus says “it is enough.” Now, Rome only crucified those who were a potential threat to the empire. For Jesus to be crucified, Rome would have to convict him as a potential revolutionary. And this is the point of the swords. With swords in their possession, Jesus and His disciples would be viewed as potential revolutionaries and Jesus would therefore fulfill Isaiah 53 to be numbered with other (revolutionary) transgressors. If Rome didn’t have any legal grounds to incriminate Jesus, there would have been no crucifixion.

This interpretation makes good sense of the quote from Isaiah 53 and the flow of Jesus’s ethical teaching. Up until Luke 22, Jesus has prohibited his followers from using violence, even in self-defense. Is Jesus now changing his mind by telling his followers to use the sword in self-defense? It seems better to take his command to buy a sword as we have suggested: Jesus is providing Rome with evidence to put Him on the cross.

So we could view Jesus’ command as a figurative expression about their coming suffering or as a way of ensuring His own crucifixion. Either way, it’s highly unlikely that Jesus encourages violent self-defense here.

In fact, just a few verses later, Peter wields one of the two swords and Jesus rebukes him: “No more of this!” (22:51). Peter, along with some interpreters, misunderstood Jesus’s previous command to buy a sword. And remember: When Jesus rebuked Peter, it wasn’t just because Jesus needed to suffer and die. He followed up his rebuke with a categorical statement about swords (guns) and violence: “all who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Matt 26:52).

Whatever you think about these two possible interpretations, every responsible interpreter must deal with (1) Jesus’s statement that “it is enough” and (2) how this event fulfills Isa 53:12. Interpretations that don’t deal with these aren’t responsible interpretations.

Whatever Jesus meant by his command to buy a sword, it doesn’t seem that he intended it to be used for violence.​


Source:
“Go Buy a Sword!” Luke 22 and Christian Gunslingers – Theology in the raw
(Note: I agree with the article, but that does not mean I agree with other things the author may believe).
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Yeah, it's always "the Left" as though there are no individuals who disagree with you and think for themselves. That's just trumpian propaganda. Demonize the opposition instead of making cogent arguments. Suppose I wrote "The Right always come up with these extreme hypothetical situations that we see in the movies. Little do they know" Then I would sound equally as unthinking as you.

"I will shoot you right between the eyes before I go" is the exact opposite of "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18
It is the Left that is pushing for gun control, abortion, screaming their heads off about the world only having 12 years left before climate change destroys us.
It is the Left that is behind this New World Order with it's socialist agenda, ruled by the elites like the Rothschilds, Gates, Klaus Schwab and their Great Reset, with Biden as a puppet.
It is the Left who run the mainstream media, Facebook, the former Twitter who censor anything negative about their agenda .
It is the Left who live in an alternate reality.
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)
Isaiah warned us about these times of lawlessness, Antifa, BLM.
They are the first to play the racist card when the Democrats the racists of the south, the Confederates, Jim Crow, the KKK. Didn't Biden attend a funeral of one of thie leaders and honored him,
Johnson started the welfare state not to help them but ti keeo gham down. Sure enough, generations got stuck in that system, blami.g society for the shitty end of the stick, when priir ti that this country had a strong work ethic - "You don't work, you don't eat!" Or "If you work hard, you can achieve anything you want in the land of opportunity.
Look at cities like Baltimore, Detroit and many other Democrat run cities that have done nothing for these cities but turn them into large ghettos of depressed economies.
LOOK AT WHAT THE LEFT HAS DONE TO THIS COUNTRY IN JUST OVER A YEAR. OMG.
Don't you know who and what you support?
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Including you! Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "
I am born again, know and love the LORD. How dare you imply otherwise ... bearing false witness against your neighbor - another typical Left wing tactic.
 

Bible Highlighter

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I am born again, know and love the LORD. How dare you imply otherwise ... bearing false witness against your neighbor - another typical Left wing tactic.

If I had to choose, I lean more Republican, but I am not really into politics. I am simply into the Bible instead. The Lord Jesus and His followers taught Non-Violence. You will be hard pressed to find any verses in the New Testament that teach self defense by the use of lethal means. This is where the line in the sand is drawn here. I believe the Bible backs my position on this topic. But you are going by experience or by sight in what you see in the world around you.

Trust in the Lord.
He is your Protector (if it is His will to protect you).
For if God decides for you to be protected, nothing on this Earth will come against you to stop you.

Anyways, may the Lord bless you (even if we disagree).
 

Bible Highlighter

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You can’t believe what you are saying!

My apologies for not being clear before. I went back and re-edited my posts for clarity. I believe the two swords are real. The purpose of the swords was to fulfill prophecy of Jesus being numbered with the transgressors.

My point I wanted to stress before on the swords is there secondary spiritual meaning for the church today.

Anyways, there is no lesson of self defense by Violence with the use of the two swords in the Scriptures, but they merely were used to fulfill prophecy.

I hope this helps, and may God’s good ways be upon you.
 
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Grailhunter

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It is a debate that is mostly irrelevant.

People are not going to give up their guns.

And as far as guns go....the cat is out of the bag. Too many people own guns....multiple guns.
By the time you put forth the effort to confiscate the guns.....the country would look more like a Nazi nation and tens of thousands will die in that effort.....kind of defeats the purpose. The police would probably quit before being stupid enough to go house to house to confiscate guns.

Even if you could, confiscate from the mommies and daddies, then they are defenseless against the criminals. Wholesale home invasions. It creates another lucrative trafficking business. Authorities refuse to shut down the borders. Prosecutors to not prosecute criminals...work to lower bail, and judges installing revolving doors to save time, and shorten prison sentences....and prisons are nearly a resort. A good part of the populous would rather kill babies than murderers. So this is the real problem, not guns.

Pacifism only works with the Bible only people and not so much for them either. As far as Christianity it went on to militarize when they merged with the Roman Empire.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Are you trying to find loop holes in scripture and novel meanings and to imagine as you, of what Christ felt and was thinking on them buying two swords for protection. Interesting that you believe it was just for fulfillment of scripture, and then to what end? And why only a sword(s) then? It would be logical that Christ was advising, preparing and training them for their missions after he exited this earth, to know they would be in austere and barren lands where wild animals and wild people they would confront at times.

My previous posts were unclear before. I was arguing before for the secondary spiritual meaning that applies to the church today. The point of the real physical swords is to fulfill prophecy, and there is no indication in the text that the swords were used as a lesson on self defense by Violent means. Actually the result of the use of the swords led to a lesson in Non-Violence. People just don’t like this idea because they have relied upon guns all their life. To them, guns are no different than GEICO car insurance. Taking a human life seems no different to them than shooting an enemy in a video game. But we are called to love even our enemies.
 
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Jim B

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It is the Left that is pushing for gun control, abortion, screaming their heads off about the world only having 12 years left before climate change destroys us.
It is the Left that is behind this New World Order with it's socialist agenda, ruled by the elites like the Rothschilds, Gates, Klaus Schwab and their Great Reset, with Biden as a puppet.
It is the Left who run the mainstream media, Facebook, the former Twitter who censor anything negative about their agenda .
It is the Left who live in an alternate reality.
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)
Isaiah warned us about these times of lawlessness, Antifa, BLM.
They are the first to play the racist card when the Democrats the racists of the south, the Confederates, Jim Crow, the KKK. Didn't Biden attend a funeral of one of thie leaders and honored him,
Johnson started the welfare state not to help them but ti keeo gham down. Sure enough, generations got stuck in that system, blami.g society for the shitty end of the stick, when priir ti that this country had a strong work ethic - "You don't work, you don't eat!" Or "If you work hard, you can achieve anything you want in the land of opportunity.
Look at cities like Baltimore, Detroit and many other Democrat run cities that have done nothing for these cities but turn them into large ghettos of depressed economies.
LOOK AT WHAT THE LEFT HAS DONE TO THIS COUNTRY IN JUST OVER A YEAR. OMG.
Don't you know who and what you support?

You are the who lives in an alternate reality.

You're still classifying people (who think for themselves) under one (false) label. That is a prime definition of bigotry.

Of course I know whom and what you support. Why? Because I think for myself!

You are paranoid and delusional!
 

Jim B

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I am born again, know and love the LORD. How dare you imply otherwise ... bearing false witness against your neighbor - another typical Left wing tactic.

I too are born again! I know and love the LORD.

Blah, blah, blah... Here we go again with your bigoted left wing smear. You are the one who is bearing false witness against your neighbor. It's getting old!
 

Bible Highlighter

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It is a debate that is mostly irrelevant.

People are not going to give up their guns.

And as far as guns go....the cat is out of the bag. Too many people own guns....multiple guns.
By the time you put forth the effort to confiscate the guns.....the country would look more like a Nazi nation and tens of thousands will die in that effort.....kind of defeats the purpose. The police would probably quit before being stupid enough to go house to house to confiscate guns.

Even if you could, confiscate from the mommies and daddies, then they are defenseless against the criminals. Wholesale home invasions. It creates another lucrative trafficking business. Authorities refuse to shut down the borders. Prosecutors to not prosecute criminals...work to lower bail, and judges installing revolving doors to save time, and shorten prison sentences....and prisons are nearly a resort. A good part of the populous would rather kill babies than murderers. So this is the real problem, not guns.

Pacifism only works with the Bible only people and not so much for them either. As far as Christianity it went on to militarize when they merged with the Roman Empire.

I agree that if every person in this nation became a Christian, and they were to follow the teachings of Jesus in being Non-Violent, we would be open to being conquered unless God intervened with a miracle to protect us. But the Lord knows not everyone will believe all of His words (like his teachings on Non-Violence, Luke 14:26, etcetera.). I imagine most owned guns for self defense before they became a Christian. So this is a hard idol to give up.

Note: I believe Christians can own guns for hunting for food.
 
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Grailhunter

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I agree that if every person in this nation became a Christian, and they were to follow the teachings of Jesus in being Non-Violent, we would be open to being conquered unless God intervened with a miracle to protect us. But the Lord knows not everyone will believe all of His words (like his teachings on Non-Violence, Luke 14:26, etcetera.). I imagine most owned guns before they became a Christian. So this is a hard idol to give up.

Be a pacifist....Bible only? I always pray that the sheep are not eaten by the wolves.....But the number of wolves are reduced by people like me.
 

Triumph1300

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Note: I believe Christians can own guns for hunting for food.

Well......I believe Christians can own guns for protection.
I am one of those guys who would shoot a rapist trying to rape my wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I am not one of those guys saying to a rapist: "Go ahead, rape some more."
 

Wrangler

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Says the delusionist. Even the most insane people believe that they're right.
Proud. The point hinges on being proud of who you are and what you stand for.

Your posts only reinforce your Leftism. Only Leftists object to 'labels,' that properly identify reality.

What was it that Obama said, gun and Bible clingers? Not an insult to me.
 
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