An article of faith

[BreadOfLife]

Do you remember the phrase from childhood: "two wrongs don't make a right"? Catholics have killed Protestants (and non-Protestants) and Protestants have also killed others. Both are heinous crimes and are contrary to Scripture.

Also, even if Protestants committed sexual abuse that doesn't mean that Catholics didn't also commit sexual abuse. They clearly did!

This was reported a few weeks ago...

The Archdiocese of Santa Fe in New Mexico said that it had reached a $121.5 million settlement agreement to resolve a bankruptcy case that stemmed from clergy sex abuse claims, one of the largest such settlements involving the Catholic Church in the United States.

I couldn't agree more with your statement above in RED.

But, since you completely IGNORED the anti-Catholic post I wasa responding to from @Saint of God - the statement was made: "And don'tt start me with the child-molesting priests."
I was showing this uninformed person that the molestation problem is FAR WORSE in Protestant circles and that this is not a "Catholic" problem - but a SIN problem.
I was also challenging them on their finger-pointing with regards to Catholics killing non-Catholics by showing this person that Protestants did the SAME thing.
I should have known it would go over YOUR head . . .

Pointing fingers at others doesn't absolve you of guilt.

I don't have any "guilt" regarding these crimes because I didn't commit them.

That's the difference between an honest Catholic like me and a morally-bankrupt and dishonest ANTI-Catholic like YOU.
I don't blame ALL of the evils committed bt certain Protestants on ALL of Protestantism - like YOU do with Catholics.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Reply #2...

The idea that the Catholic Church "murdered millions" of people down through the centuries is just anti-Catholic propagandfa on steroids. It's a completely unsubstatiated claim that hasa NO basis in historical fact."

Are you lying intentionally or are you just ignorant? The Inquisition was a powerful office set up within the Catholic Church to root out and punish heresy throughout Europe and the Americas.

The Inquisitions were judicial institutions or tribunals that were established by the Roman Catholic Church in order to seek out, try, and sentence people that the Roman Catholic Church believed to be guilty of heresy. The purpose of the inquisitions was to secure and maintain religious and doctrinal unity in the Roman Catholic Church and throughout the Holy Roman Empire, through either the conversion or persecution of alleged heretics. Historians generally distinguish the Inquisitions based on four different time frames and areas that they took place in. These are the Medieval or Episcopal Inquisition, the Spanish Inquisition, the Portuguese Inquisition, and the Roman Inquisition.

Many people were killed in the Near East, Europe and North America by the Catholic church, under direct orders of the Pope. Those are historical facts!

Fow shich you have NO historical documentation - especially in the numbers alleged ("MILLIONs").

Unfortunately, there are FAR more myths and fairy talesabout the Inquisitions than FACTS floating around the internet.

For example, it’s been claimed MANY TIMEs on this forum that during the Spanish Inquisition - anywhere from 75 million to 190 million people were put to death.
This would have wiped out ALL of Europe and parts of Asia – as there weren’t even this many people living in Europe during that time.

Records show that during the 4 centuries of this Inquisition’s existence – about 4000 (Four Thousand) people were executed.
Many, MANY more were exonerated.

 

[theefaith]

Abuse fyi!

The union Christ and His holy church or the unity of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin! Men are sinners, with a sin nature and free will, but we should choose that which is good and holy! Rom 6:13

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues! And we don’t blame the Protestant sects or leaders!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[Jim B]

Abuse fyi!

The union Christ and His holy church or the unity of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin! Men are sinners, with a sin nature and free will, but we should choose that which is good and holy! Rom 6:13

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues! And we don’t blame the Protestant sects or leaders!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I have no idea what you're going on and on about, nor do I care.

One of your phrases clearly stands out, however: Automatic excommunication is incured [sic] upon the exercise of the intellect. There you have it!! If you bother to use your mind you are automatically excommunicated!

No wonder you Catholics are so screwed up!!! Don't think for yourselves; just accept whatever your Pope, cardinal, bishop, or priest tell you to think. That is what every dictator wants his subjects to obey!!!

Martin Luther is one of my heroes! He had the courage (given to him by God) to call out the false doctrine and practices of the Catholic church. He is almost on the level of Moses, who led God's people out of (physical) slavery. In Luther's case, he led Christians away from the ideological slavery of the Catholic denomination!!!

Thank God for Martin Luther and Protestantism!!!

 

[theefaith]

I have no idea what you're going on and on about, nor do I care.

One of your phrases clearly stands out, however: Automatic excommunication is incured [sic] upon the exercise of the intellect. There you have it!! If you bother to use your mind you are automatically excommunicated!

No wonder you Catholics are so screwed up!!! Don't think for yourselves; just accept whatever your Pope, cardinal, bishop, or priest tell you to think. That is what every dictator wants his subjects to obey!!!

Martin Luther is one of my heroes! He had the courage (given to him by God) to call out the false doctrine and practices of the Catholic church. He is almost on the level of Moses, who led God's people out of (physical) slavery. In Luther's case, he led Christians away from the ideological slavery of the Catholic denomination!!!

Thank God for Martin Luther and Protestantism!!!

Your hero is perpetual virgin man!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

 

[theefaith]

I have no idea what you're going on and on about, nor do I care.

One of your phrases clearly stands out, however: Automatic excommunication is incured [sic] upon the exercise of the intellect. There you have it!! If you bother to use your mind you are automatically excommunicated!

No wonder you Catholics are so screwed up!!! Don't think for yourselves; just accept whatever your Pope, cardinal, bishop, or priest tell you to think. That is what every dictator wants his subjects to obey!!!

Martin Luther is one of my heroes! He had the courage (given to him by God) to call out the false doctrine and practices of the Catholic church. He is almost on the level of Moses, who led God's people out of (physical) slavery. In Luther's case, he led Christians away from the ideological slavery of the Catholic denomination!!!

Thank God for Martin Luther and Protestantism!!!

bruno said:

Martin Luther was sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from tradition and false doctrine.

I would like to see this in the “Bible alone”!

Maybe you know where it is?

 

[Saint of God]

Okay, I won't.
How about child-molesting Protestant pastors and leaders?
How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse ...
A History of Sex Abuse in the Protestant Imagination
FAQ: Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy - The Doan Law Firm
1 in 10 Young Protestants Have Left a Church Over Abuse
Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy
Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor
Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches
Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups
U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse
Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors
Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse
Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis

Where did God authoruze LYUNG?

The idea that the Catholic Church "murdered millions" of people down through the centuries is just anti-Catholic propagandfa on steroids. It's a completely unsubstatiated claim that hasa NO basis in historical fact.

Yes, you can give me a DOZEN links to these claims - yet NONE of them back up those claims with actual eyewitness testimonies or historical documentation that even come CLOSE to the numbers YOU claim.
History has a funny way of chronicling this king of genocide - so claims without doeumentation are about as valuable as something stuck to the bottom of my shoe.

Did Cathollics kill Protestants in the past?
YUP.
Did Peotestants kill Catholics?
YUP.

THEM's the historical facts . . .

I said don't start me but you didn't listen...The RCC is the mother of harlots...Who do you think the harlots are? Ask yourself where the protestant denomination came from. Most protestant groups still hold the RCC trinity doctrine.
Rev 17
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.(the Vatican)

 

[Saint of God]

No, that is total nonsense. Since Jesus had brothers (plural) Mary did not remain a virgin!!!!!

What is the matter with you? Can't you accept the truth of the Bible? (Obviously not! I pity you!!!)

The man does not know what a virgin is...Having children is not the cause of a woman not being a virgin...having sex is... In the Hebrew custom sexual intercourse was what made a man a husband and a woman a wife... In order for Mary to be Joseph's wife, he must have sex with her...Sex makes a woman no longer a virgin...In Mary's case there was no hymen for Joseph to rupture since that is where Jesus passed to be born...

 

[BreadOfLife]

I said don't start me but you didn't listen...The RCC is the mother of harlots...Who do you think the harlots are? Ask yourself where the protestant denomination came from. Most protestant groups still hold the RCC trinity doctrine.
Rev 17
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.(the Vatican)

Ahhh - then, you'll be happy to know that sexual molestation is alive and well in YOUR quasi-Christian, Trinity-hating sects as well.

Oh, and the Harlot is the "Great City" - also known in the Bible as "Jerucalem" . . .

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill

- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills:
Mount Scopus
Mount Olivet
Mount of Corruption
Mount Ophel
Original Mount Zion
New Mount Zion
The hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City"
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

Isa. 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Rev. 11:18
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
(Jesus was crucified in JERUSALEM, Einstein)

Rev. 17:18
And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

The ONLY only thing worse than an anti-Catholic is a really, really ignorant one.
Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Jim B]

Your hero is perpetual virgin man!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

What you or others believe is irrelevant. Sola scriptura.

 

[Jim B]

bruno said:

Martin Luther was sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from tradition and false doctrine.

I would like to see this in the “Bible alone”!

Maybe you know where it is?

The Bible is truth. Since Martin Luther agreed with what the Bible says and disagreed with the Catholic myths, he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from tradition and false doctrine.

 

[Jim B]

Again, you wrote "automatic excommunication is incured [sic] upon the exercise of the intellect. There you have it!! According to you, if you bother to use your mind you are automatically excommunicated!

Those are your words!

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Bible is truth. Since Martin Luther agreed with what the Bible says and disagreed with the Catholic myths, he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from tradition and false doctrine.

Then, WHY did Luther remove 7 Books and portions of Daniel and Esther from the OT?

Why did he TRY to remove the Books of James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation from the NT - until he was persuaded NOT to by his contemporaries, like Philip Melanchton?

Was that God sending him to "correct and rightly divide truth"??
OR, was it a prideful man filled with arrogance?

 

[Jim B]

Then, WHY did Luther remove 7 Books and portions of Daniel and Esther from the OT?

Why did he TRY to remove the Books of James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation from the NT - until he was persuaded NOT to by his contemporaries, like Philip Melanchton?

Was that God sending him to "correct and rightly divide truth"??
OR, was it a prideful man filled with arrogance?

I am not saying that Martin Luther was a perfect man. There was/is only one perfect man: Jesus Christ.

What I wrote was this: The Bible is truth. Since Martin Luther agreed with what the Bible says and disagreed with the Catholic myths, he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from Catholic tradition and false doctrine.

Catholicism was/is filled with all kinds of doctrines and practices that go far afield from what the Bible -- God's Word -- clearly says. Again, Martin Luther agreed with what the Bible says and disagreed with the Catholic myths.

Martin Luther rescued Christianity from the evils of Catholicism. He is the equivalent of Moses, who also rescued God's people from enslavement (even though he was a murderer).

Your denomination is filled with lies and has a history of heinous abuse, including murder and excommunication, of those who didn't accept you false religion of idolatry.

 

[Jim B]

BreadofLIfe wrote that I wrote "he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth".

It is a technique of liars to distort what others have said/written. In this case, I wrote that he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from tradition and false doctrine. He truncated it to alter the meaning.

Clearly he is a deliberate liar!

John 8:31-32, "Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 14:6, "Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

As long as BreadofLife and theefaith and other Catholics continue to lie and distort the truths of the Bible, they are denying Christ, replacing Him with lies and distortions taught by their clergy, from the Pope to their pedophile priests.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am not saying that Martin Luther was a perfect man. There was/is only one perfect man: Jesus Christ.

What I wrote was this: The Bible is truth. Since Martin Luther agreed with what the Bible says and disagreed with the Catholic myths, he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from Catholic tradition and false doctrine.

Catholicism was/is filled with all kinds of doctrines and practices that go far afield from what the Bible -- God's Word -- clearly says. Again, Martin Luther agreed with what the Bible says and disagreed with the Catholic myths.

Martin Luther rescued Christianity from the evils of Catholicism. He is the equivalent of Moses, who also rescued God's people from enslavement (even though he was a murderer).

Your denomination is filled with lies and has a history of heinous abuse, including murder and excommunication, of those who didn't accept you false religion of idolatry.

All of your idiotic and unfounded remarks about the Catholic Church aside - the Bible IS truth .
A\nd Martin Luther not only disagreed with it - he EDITED it.

Do YOU have any idea WHY?
Please enlighten us . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadofLIfe wrote that I wrote "he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth".

It is a technique of liars to distort what others have said/written. In this case, I wrote that he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from tradition and false doctrine. He truncated it to alter the meaning.

Clearly he is a deliberate liar!

John 8:31-32, "Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 14:6, "Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

As long as BreadofLife and theefaith and other Catholics continue to lie and distort the truths of the Bible, they are denying Christ, replacing Him with lies and distortions taught by their clergy, from the Pope to their pedophile priests.

I did was copy and paste the idiocy that YOU wrote - context intact.

If you don't like it - then DON'T make stupid remarks like that.

 

[Jim B]

All of your idiotic and unfounded remarks about the Catholic Church aside - the Bible IS truth .
A\nd Martin Luther not only disagreed with it - he EDITED it.

Do YOU have any idea WHY?
Please enlighten us . . .

a) The Bible has been edited many times by many people. Do you seriously think that you are reading the original manuscripts that were written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?
b) If the (English) Bible is truth, how come the Catholic denomination doesn't agree with what it says?

And you call my remarks "idiotic" and "unfounded"? You're just jealous because I understand the truth.

 

[Behold]

a)
b) If the (English) Bible is truth, how come the Catholic denomination doesn't agree with what it says?

The catholic bible is not taken from the Greek "texts" (the few ) that are accepted and used to create new English Versions.
The Cat bible is Latin, translated, and the translation is something the devil loves.

Especially the Gospel of John, where the Devil helped the Catholic Translation teach that you are "BORN AGAIN" "BY" = WATER.
Not by the Holy Spirit, but by WATER.

This is why the "cult of Mary" is known as as "water cult"......exactly like the JW's., who also are obsessed with water.

 

[Jim B]

I did was copy and paste the idiocy that YOU wrote - context intact.

If you don't like it - then DON'T make stupid remarks like that.

You are the liar. I wrote, "BreadofLIfe wrote that I wrote "he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth".

It is a technique of liars to distort what others have said/written. In this case, I wrote that "he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from Catholic tradition and false doctrine." He truncated it to alter the meaning.

Clearly he is a deliberate liar! He claims that he cut-and-pasted what I wrote "context intact", yet he didn't include the phrase "from Catholic tradition and false doctrine". See my post #136.

If he doesn't like it - then he shouldn't make deliberately false remarks like that.