Those Who Deal Treacherously

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whirlwind

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Jeremiah 5:11-13 For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against Me, saith the LORD. They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not He; neither shall evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine: And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them.



The house of Israel (Christians) and the house of Judah (Jews) have/are both dealing treacherously against the Lord. How? Members of both houses listen to prophets that do not have the word in them. The false prophets say evil, sword and famine won't touch us but...God tells us differently.

To His true prophets, here it is Jeremiah...God says:


5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make My words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.


This shows that Jeremiah was one of the many "two" witnesses for it is they that figuratively devour their enemies with the words/fire which "proceedeth out of their mouth"....


Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


5:15-17 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say. Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men. And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.


This is a fulfilled prophecy. Many, including me, see that the house of Israel are today's Christians and the Christian nations are those written of in the above passage.

A mighty and ancient nation is....Islam, those whose language we not only "knowest not" (it's difficult if not impossible to even pronounce their names) but also we don't understand what they say. We can't understand how they think as they do, how they believe that what they do is a good thing.

I read an e-mail recently, a stab at black humor, where two Muslim women were reminiscing about their children. The punch line was "they blow up so fast." :wacko:

Because of them the prophecy is fulfilled on two fronts. Since the 9/11 event the precautions we must take to protect us from "their sword" cost dearly, monetarily and with our freedoms. But, even more is our dependence on their oil. We pay terrible prices which in turn eats away at our harvest...leaving little for "sons and daughters." Our flocks, vines, all we work for is cut away, slice by slice, just to survive.


And, while this stripping away of our earned wealth is being done...young protestors scream for more to be given them. I saw one sign held by a protestor in New York...."tax the wealthy until they're poor." He says this while he himself has no job but wants the government to pay for his home, his car, his education, his food. This morning my son-in-law, said, "perhaps we should only allow those who pay taxes to vote?"


But, those are our very own demon-strators. Silly, naive, young people misled by socialistic teachings. I am reminded of a line I heard recently on the show The Mentalist. Patrick Jane remarked, "at least you're wrong with conviction." :lol:


Of course, our very own home-grown politicans with the environmentalists, rules, regulations, etc. exacerbate the situation for....we could drill for our own oil keeping our prices reasonable and our money at home while providing jobs. Seems like a good plan to me but we keep electing these people.
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Jeremiah 5:19 And it shall come to pass, when ye shall say, Wherefore doeth the LORD our God all these things unto us? then shalt thou answer them, Like as ye have forsaken me, and served strange gods in your land, so shall ye serve strangers in a land that is not your's.


And we do. We serve these strangers, by paying huge prices, that hurt us and help them. Not only the nation of Islam, those with oil, but nations such as China. We ship jobs to other countries, buy their products so...we serve them.



5:26-28 For among My people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men. As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.


Do we see the "wicked men" among us? Will we allow them to continue to prosper? Satan rules through four hidden dynasties....Politics, Finance, Education and Religion. And, their houses are full of deceit.


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Prentis

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Our nation is a spiritual nation, scattered around the whole world. It is of all those who are in Christ! My understanding is that Israel, reffering to the ten tribes, is the Gentiles who are grafted in, and Judah, the Jews, are the natural Jews. Israel is also referred to as Ephraim, and Ephraim and Judah together, in Christ, form Israel. :)
 

whirlwind

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Our nation is a spiritual nation, scattered around the whole world. It is of all those who are in Christ! My understanding is that Israel, reffering to the ten tribes, is the Gentiles who are grafted in, and Judah, the Jews, are the natural Jews. Israel is also referred to as Ephraim, and Ephraim and Judah together, in Christ, form Israel. :)



Gentiles become Israel through belief...they are adopted into the One family of God. But, there is still....the seed into which they are adopted. It didn't go away.

Israel, rather than being the ten tribes, are all twelve tribes. Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel, represents all tribes. The twelve split into two factions, two houses....the house of Judah (Jews - Judah and Benjamin) and the house of Israel (today's Christians...the ten lost tribes/lost sheep of the house of Israel).

Jesus sent His disciples to the scattered sheep and He Himself was sent to find them....He did. :D We carry His name today...Christ/Christ-ian

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


In considering who the Jews are...they are Jew-dah, Judah. Biblical Jews can be of the house of Judah (which includes Benjamin), can be residents of the lands of Judah, or can be of the Jewish religion. All are applicable. However, the house of Judah/Jews are of the tribe of Judah. In other words, all twelve tribes of Israel are Israel but not all the tribes are Jews. Israel = house of Judah & house of Israel.


Ephraim, as you rightly stated, represents Israel but it is only...the house of Israel they represent, the ten scattered tribes, the lost sheep.


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Prentis

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Gentiles become Israel through belief...they are adopted into the One family of God. But, there is still....the seed into which they are adopted. It didn't go away.

Israel, rather than being the ten tribes, are all twelve tribes. Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel, represents all tribes. The twelve split into two factions, two houses....the house of Judah (Jews - Judah and Benjamin) and the house of Israel (today's Christians...the ten lost tribes/lost sheep of the house of Israel).

Jesus sent His disciples to the scattered sheep and He Himself was sent to find them....He did. :D We carry His name today...Christ/Christ-ian

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


In considering who the Jews are...they are Jew-dah, Judah. Biblical Jews can be of the house of Judah (which includes Benjamin), can be residents of the lands of Judah, or can be of the Jewish religion. All are applicable. However, the house of Judah/Jews are of the tribe of Judah. In other words, all twelve tribes of Israel are Israel but not all the tribes are Jews. Israel = house of Judah & house of Israel.


Ephraim, as you rightly stated, represents Israel but it is only...the house of Israel they represent, the ten scattered tribes, the lost sheep.


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I agree! Amen!

Yes, by saying Israel and Ephraim are the same, I meant the house of Israel, those of the northern kingdom, and now all those grafted in to the seed of Abraham, Christ. :)
 

Vengle

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Our nation is a spiritual nation, scattered around the whole world. It is of all those who are in Christ! My understanding is that Israel, reffering to the ten tribes, is the Gentiles who are grafted in, and Judah, the Jews, are the natural Jews. Israel is also referred to as Ephraim, and Ephraim and Judah together, in Christ, form Israel. :)

Where I disagree with you is that just as the 10 tribe kingdom conquered was by Syria and their population over sown with gentiles while the natural Israelite were scattered into the nations, the same thing happened to Judah eventually.

By Jesus' day descendants of Esau had been embraced as Jews, and it did not stop there.

This over sowing and dispersing of both showed that the 144,000 who are the selected rulers with Christ would also be chosen from among the peoples of all nations. That is why Paul spends time talking about what really constitutes a Jew being circumcision of the heart rather than the flesh and plainly asks them pertaining to the gentiles "Will they not judge you who though being circumcised in flesh break the law?"

Most of Israel today is not true blood.
 

Prentis

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Where I disagree with you is that just as the 10 tribe kingdom conquered was by Syria and their population over sown with gentiles while the natural Israelite were scattered into the nations, the same thing happened to Judah eventually.

By Jesus' day descendants of Esau had been embraced as Jews, and it did not stop there.

This over sowing and dispersing of both showed that the 144,000 who are the selected rulers with Christ would also be chosen from among the peoples of all nations. That is why Paul spends time talking about what really constitutes a Jew being circumcision of the heart rather than the flesh and plainly asks them pertaining to the gentiles "Will they not judge you who though being circumcised in flesh break the law?"

Most of Israel today is not true blood.

Okay, I believe you on that. :)

The way I understand it to work though, is that those who were 'considered' Jews, lived in Judaea at Jesus' time, are the Jews, both the tribe of Judah and Benjamin. It isn't so much about what they are in the flesh, but about the fact they were of the Jews and with the Jews, who were still God's people, to whom Christ was sent. Then, the Gentiles are grafted in as the house of Israel, which had been destroyed.

But I could be wrong!
 

Vengle

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You very correctly stated the following on another thread:

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"The elect are those called by God. There are some both among the Jews and the Gentiles.

It says 'all Israel shall be saved', which means both Jew and Gentile in Christ shall be saved,
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[sup]7[/sup]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.[sup]8[/sup]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

My understanding, considering this, is that the point that Paul is making is that God has not forsaken the Jews to take in the Gentiles, but will take in both Jews and Gentiles. All Jews? No, not all Gentiles either. "

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Both the ten tribe and the two tribe kingdoms plus Levi's children were descended of Isaac. The same is true for all of them.

When the scripture speaks of the house of Israel it does after the split refer to the ten tribe kingdom but often when it speaks of Jacob's children and/or the children of Israel it means them all of both kingdoms.

The split was foreshadowed that God would select 144,000 co-rulers to share with Christ under the Covenant to David. they are the principal body of Christ. They are foundation stones built onto Christ for our benefit who then are built upon them.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that only the 144,000 are the body of Christ. I argue with them that all must be saved in and through Christ, each one in his order. They saw that the 144,000 are first fruits in Christ but failed to understand that where there is first fruits there is also the rest of the harvest and they to must be brought into Christ.

They claim that all the congregations of the first century were only the 144,000 and that selection ended in about 1918. I tell them I see why they think that but I see evidence that both have always been there. Of course when I try to point those who are not the ruling class out in those early churches they refuse to see the scriptures I cite.

Preconceived belief is a powerful thing. I count myself fortunate that I got so vexed by contradictory doctrines that I angrily tossed all beliefs to the wind and approached God completely empty begging his holy spirit to teach me. It was only then that I became able to learn.

Let all men be found a liar (including myself) but let God be found true.