Funny, I live like that for over forty years, my gym is homemade with sticks and stones and water bottles.
Never read the scriptures as to why the poor are in our midst?
J.
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Never read the scriptures as to why the poor are in our midst?
J.
Phoneman777
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Properly preaching the Cross is telling people Jesus died to give us both pardon for sin and power to obey. Contrary to popular antinomianists rhetoric, obedience or the lack thereof has never nor will ever be a means to and end, but is merely the outward evidence of our inward spiritual condition (1 John 2:3-4 KJV).
First OSAS now antinomianists...well, for starters, I am not an antinomian, secondly, I hold to once saved, always saved.
Yeah?
Once you are sealed with the Holy Spirit AFTER the resurrection of our Lord and great God, Christ Jesus, you think you can be "unsealed..resealed.."
Eph 1:13 You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, [Lit. in him] you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until God redeems his own possession [Lit. of the possession] for his praise and glory.
Eph 1:13 In Moshiach you also, having heard the message of HaEmes, the Besuras HaGeulah of Yeshu'at Eloheinu which is yours, having also come to emunah, received your chotam (seal) in Moshiach with the Ruach Hakodesh of havtachah (promise),
Eph 1:14 Who is bestowed as an eravon (pledge) of our nachalah (allotted inheritance, TEHILLIM 16:5-6), with a view to the Geulah of Hashem's own possession, to the tehilat kavod (praise of glory) of Him.
OJB
Takes a bit of time to get used to this version...
εσφραγισθητε
G4972
V-API-2P
σφραγίζω
to stamp for security
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: Aorist
Voice: Passive
Mood: Indicative
Person: second [you+]
Number: Plural
Ye were sealed (ἐσφραγίσθητε)
See on Joh_3:33; see on Rev_22:10. Sealed with the assurance of the Holy Spirit. Rom_8:16; 2Co_1:22; 2Ti_2:19.
Spirit of promise
Strictly, the promise. Denoting the promise as characteristic of the Holy Spirit: the Spirit which was announced by promise. See Act_2:16 sqq.; Joe_2:28; Zec_12:10; Isa_32:15; Isa_44:3; Joh_7:39; Act_1:4-8; Gal_3:14.
Vincent
5) "Ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" (esphragisthete to pneumati tes epangelias to hagio) "With the Holy Spirit of promise." This seal is heaven’s stamp of eternal ownership of the sealed property, 2Ti_2:19; Eph_4:30. If salvation could ever be lost, it would have to be after the resurrection of the body of the believer; for until the redemption of the body (the purchased (paid for) possession of every believer), one is sealed. See also Rom_8:23.
Garner-Howes
Now, since we are Aorist, Passive..and I am surprised there is no Middle Voice...WERE SEALED..can that pledge be undone?
We all have our biases but right here, my eternal destiny, and yours is at stake, and I believe what the Scriptures are saying re my salvation, and nor what you say about MY salvation...might have veered off a little bit, but that's OK.
J.
Taken
Well-Known Member
I would say Osteen and his wife are both motivational feel good speakers each respectively having been brought up regularly attending A Church.
Probably best for him to not get to deep preaching beyond his educations skills. I have no issue with “encouraging feel good about yourself speakers”. Just not all hip to the idea that is the purpose of Preaching, <—that—> being more so about feeling good about the Lord God.
Just sharing.
but this man in your OP doesn't preach the cross.
he preaches works.
i listened to the whole 54+ minutes and i did not hear the gospel. i didn't hear him talk about Jesus Christ, Who He is, or what He has done & will do.
i heard him talk about what he thinks people should do, not about what anyone should believe.
the pharisees didn't produce disciples who were going around sinning and saying it didn't matter; they went around producing disciples who believed their 'good works' and personal-righteousness would justify themselves before God.
they did not make disciples who sought the mercy of God, but disciples who boasted in themselves over what they did & kept themselves from doing.
yes he said, people boast in their works and they shouldn't. that all we do amounts to an abomination before God, and that "self made integrity" won't commend us to God. but then he immediately talked about 'submission to the word of God' without defining it.
i didn't learn anything. he didn't talk about Jesus, but about people, the whole time. he didn't talk about the scripture. he talked about himself and what a good preacher he is, and about the listener, and how terrible they probably are, and about the 'others' who aren't even listening to his sermon, how terrible he thinks they all definitely are. there was no teaching. he did not add to my knowledge of God at all. he talked more about how there ought to be more preachers as cool as him than he did about anything else.
it was kind of the sermon-equivalent of a gangster-rap song.
i think there are more than two preachers in the world.
Well, why don't you preach Christ Jesus and Him crucified and resurrected?
it might do a world of difference in this lost and dying world. You might be the next reformer.
See, I know Wilkerson and his outreach ministry, and was in contact with him via letters.
You know anything re his ministry?
What was the header above the video clip?
Just so to let you know, I don't put David on a pedestal, he is not my "Isaac"
So sorry for wasting your precious time, 54+ minutes, if you want, listen to him preaching on the cross!
All glory to Christ Jesus.
J.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Who teaches that? I never heard that. Joseph was a carpenter, probably a good one, so he probably had a an average income as anyone else. He provided. They got stuck using a manger not because he was broke, but because all the rooms were taken - busy travel reason.
Listen, I didn't go to his church or any church that was selling the prosperity doctrine. I've never been rich nor had any desire to be rich. Actually I have always found contentment with what I had. So did Paul.
I grew up in America, where prosperity has been great and the American dream was and still is real in some states. The Bible frowns on lazy, sluggards whose way turns to poverty. It is not the way of the Lord. A strong work ethic we had. It used to be a common motto: "If you don't work, you don't eat."
Put God first, wife and kids, family and do the best at your job and you will prosper. Capitalism is finding the needs of others and providing them for a reasonable pricw. The Love of money is the root of evil, but as long as you don't let it be your master then, becoming wealthy is not a sin.
Duh. Lighten up man, listen to whoever floats your boat. This guy you presented doesn't float mine.
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"why the world hates Christians" ?
he never said why.
the world hates Christians because of Christ. not because we go around preaching clean living, moderation and abstinence.
there are atheists who preach clean living, moderation and abstinence. guess what Buddhism preaches. guess what Islam preaches.
ever meet a vegan? guess what they preach?
he didn't preach the cross. point me to the minute-mark where he started talking about the cross, what God did, what it means, how it's foreshadowed in the torah... ???
friend, it's no 'waste'
i listen to about 12-15 1-hour sermons a week. this guy, he's typical. this is an off-the-shelf standard sermon IMO.
i can summarize the whole thing in 14 words:
sin is bad
we need more preachers like me who say sin is bad
that's milk, friend.
"duh"
wake me up when he explains why the two birds are undivided in Genesis 15
sorry but i am not satisfied any longer with simplicity.
previously discussed.
slanderous, strawman false accusation predicated on a powerless, Christless soteriology based in human works & willpower devoid of any supernatural working of God.
Phoneman777
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I don't think you have a correct understanding of what the Bible means by a "seal". You're thinking along the lines of how a "lid" prevents the contents of a container from escaping, and so it's no wonder you are a OSAS believer - because you think once a person is "sealed in" with Christ, there's no getting out.
As the following verse demonstrates, the "seal" refers to a "sign" or an "identifying mark" and that "seal" and "sign" are synonymous:
"And (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised:"
Satan counterfeits everything (love/lust; marriage/shacking up; hetero/homo, etc.) so we should expect that the Mark of the Beast is a counterfeit - to the Seal of God. And just what is that "seal"?
"Bind up the testimony. Seal the Law among My disciples". - Isaiah 8:16 KJV
Phoneman777
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Hey Post! You don't agree with 1 John 2:3-4 KJV that those who claim to be saved but refuse to keep God's commandments are liars and the truth which is Jesus is not in them?
I guess you don't, seeing that the entire foundation of your faith rests upon a stubborn refusal to obey God's commandments, which is why you have to rely on a OSAS License to Sin instead of merely trusting God to impart His "agape" to those who want to be as faithful to Him as a young Christian lady is lovingly faithful to her husband.
Love, Post. When a person accepts Jesus and He imparts His "agape" to him, you'll agree "His commandments are not grievous." - 1 John 5:3 KJV
slander.
slander.
slander.
please see the TOS of this board:
- No Flaming, Goading or Harassment. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.
- No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Christianity Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community.
- This further includes making false statements or accusations about a member.
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[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern.
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robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Once we understand that OSAS is christian religion for liberals, it all falls into place. It's why I spend less and less time with them.
This is the kind of dribble that says it all. Seriously, 'critical and judgmental tone'? Who talks like that? Baby liberals.
They hear one message against sinning amidst all the liberal christianity happy talk, and their tummies hurt. Who walks away guilty, when sinning is being preached against? The guilty.
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
I listen to Osteen from time to time, and I've been to the church there, and so long as someone at least speaks the name of Jesus, I'm happy with it, But I don't try to live on that stuff. It's christian cake. Who wants cake and candy all the time? Babies.
OSAS is once a babe always a baby. Paul warns babies about never growing up and going on to righteousness, and stop the playtime christianity, that never just repents of sinning already.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
That's the whole tone and 'dominant theme' of Matthew 23. Jesus preached more about hypocrisy of sinners going to hell than anyone else in the Bible.
The christ these people seek is not named Jesus. They 'shy away' from that Christ.
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
There's nothing wrong with sinners of the world call themselves christians, nor muslim, nor jew, nor buddhist.
Scripture only condemns those that name the name of Jesus Christ, who remain friends of the world and enemies of God.
Scripture only condemns those that name the name of Jesus Christ, who remain friends of the world and enemies of God.
Phoneman777
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Saying you refuse to obey God's commandments is acceptable to the TOS because it's criticism of your own antinomianist words and admissions, not criticism of or an attack on your character.
Labeling OSAS as a License to Sin is acceptable to the TOS because it's criticism of OSAS, not criticism of or an attack on your character.
Advising you to trust in God alone instead of a OSAS License to Sin is acceptable to the TOS because it's Christian counsel pertaining to an aspect of your faith I have shown to be unBiblical, not criticism of or an attack on your character.
This is a warning. If you falsely accuse me of "slander" again, I will report you to the mod team.
Please read the CB TOS:
- No Flaming, Goading or Harassment. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.
- No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Christianity Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community.
- This further includes making false statements or accusations about a member.
- Sarcasm is not included under this rule.
[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern.
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here is what the Bible calls milk:
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.
(Hebrews 5:12-6:3)
(Hebrews 5:12-6:3)
- repentance
- faith
- baptisms
- laying on of hands
- resurrection
- eternal judgement
yes, lets!
Then Moses answered and said, “But suppose they will not believe me or listen to my voice; suppose they say, ‘The Lord has not appeared to you.’ ”
So the Lord said to him, “What is that in your hand?”
He said, “A rod.”
And He said, “Cast it on the ground.” So he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Reach out your hand and take it by the tail” (and he reached out his hand and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand), “that they may believe that the Lord God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”
(Exodus 4:1-5)
this is a picture of Christ.So the Lord said to him, “What is that in your hand?”
He said, “A rod.”
And He said, “Cast it on the ground.” So he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Reach out your hand and take it by the tail” (and he reached out his hand and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand), “that they may believe that the Lord God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”
(Exodus 4:1-5)
a rod who is with him, tho he didn't know it for what it is - as Jesus on the road to Emmaus, opening the eyes of His disciples
the Son must be cast down, as bearing the sins of many, as the serpent in the wilderness
He became a snake - a curse for us, despised and rejected. falsely accused and mocked.
Moses was afraid - as the sheep scatter when the Shepherd is struck
he takes Him by the tail - in faith not seeking to preserve his own life, as a man would pick up a snake at it's head if he was trying to avoid being bitten!
and He became a Rod again in his hand - as Christ bodily resurrected, in power, able to keep us from stumbling, ready to strike the head of His enemies.
there is more:
And Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.
(Exodus 7:11-12)
But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.
(Exodus 7:11-12)
He swallows up the other serpents. He bore our sins in His own body, and they are no more, being hidden in Him.
as the ark covered in blood, also a picture of Him: those things which would condemn us are hidden from sight, in Him, swallowed up.
the sorcerers of Egypt made their own rods become serpents also - as false prophets, false teachers, false messiahs.
Christ will judge them all by the word of His mouth, the sword which proceeds from it.
He is a Rod to us - our strength and our help for walking, a defense from assault. as Psalm 110:2
He set aside His glory and was found in the form of a man.
He swallowed up death in victory
He rose - lifted up, bodily
and Moses & Aaron, with THE BRANCH, departed from the presence of Pharaoh, as Christ ascended from the world back to heaven from which He had first descended.
and Moses & Aaron would return the next day in judgement, stretching out THE BRANCH over the waters of Egypt, the world, so that they became blood.
there is more.
all these things are deep, rich testimonies of Him
or we could just talk about milk
i'm certainly not antinomian, nor do i believe anyone is saved apart from the supernatural, effective work of God in them, literally regenerating them and sanctifying their hearts.
the whole 'OSAS' and 'license to sin' attack is a spurious false accusation against people who have put their trust in God rather than themselves. it's predicated on a strawman false-soteriology, supposing God does not operate in those He saves, that it is a human work of willpower only, that God fails to save those He saves, does not seal them, does not redeem them, but that their salvation is both initiated by human willpower, kept by human willpower, and undone by human willpower, all wholly separate from any actual input from God.
however Biblical salvation, as described for example in Ephesians, as you drew to our attention, is a work of God, not of men - just as the circumcision which is effective is not done by human hands ((Colossians 2)). it is by faith in Christ and His finished work; His faithfulness to complete in us what He began. the slanderous false accusations of these people shouting 'license to sin' is a direct accusation against us of sin - without cause other than our professed belief in the grace of God through Jesus Christ - and it is a direct assault on the saving power of God.
it's not worth talking about.
it's milk.
no one here is preaching that we should sin.
everyone here agrees, 'sin is bad'
thanking God for His mercy and trusting in Him does not equal antinomianism or loving sin.
thanking God for His mercy and trusting in Him is obeying the gospel.
'once sealed, always sealed' -- lol, i like this.
and this topic is Moses' second sign:
Furthermore the Lord said to him, “Now put your hand in your bosom.” And he put his hand in his bosom, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous, like snow. And He said, “Put your hand in your bosom again.” So he put his hand in his bosom again, and drew it out of his bosom, and behold, it was restored like his other flesh. “Then it will be, if they do not believe you, nor heed the message of the first sign, that they may believe the message of the latter sign.
(Exodus 4:6-8)
(Exodus 4:6-8)
leprosy is symbolic of sin & the wages of sin, eternal judgement.
no one was ever cured of leprosy but the Syrian Naaman, until Christ appeared, hidden in flesh.
the curing of Naaman is a tremendous picture of the cross, of salvation, of Jesus Christ and His work - that would take many words to even begin to delve into.
But of this sign given to Moses, if they do not believe the testimony of the Messiah in THE BRANCH, let me briefly say:
this is as Matthew 9:5, which is easier, to forgive sin or heal the lame?
the answer is in Christ, who does both for us, having born our sin in His own body, after being hidden in all the scriptures - that great mystery of godliness: God was revealed in the flesh!
being hidden again, entombed for 3 days & nights, as Jonah - then being bodily risen, for the flesh of Moses's hand itself was restored, destroyed the power of sin just as we by faith in Him have died with Him, are hidden in Him, and rise with Him, and will ascend with Him when He returns for us.
if they did not believe when they saw the Messiah testified of in all the signs He did, perhaps they will believe when they see Him risen from the dead. perhaps they will believe when they hear the gospel preached, that there is forgiveness of sin with Him, that He has power over life and death, over eternal life and eternal judgement - to grant to all who believe Him.
this is a testimony to Israel, when they saw it: the power to judge and forgive sin ((the healing of leprosy)) is an unmistakable sign of the power of God, for no one but God can remit sin, just as no one but God can cure leprosy. no works of men can do this, no human will or desire can do this, no effort, no ritual, no ceremony: only God by His own will, according to His good pleasure.
the law contains a rite for ceremonially cleansing of a leper who has been healed, but contains nothing which can heal that leper.
only Jesus. only the LORD God can save
Yah-shua, Yah is Salvation
This is stupendously good…I would like to see you, or someone, expand, succinctly perfect and enlarge it. It could almost be a book! You have hit on our one true problem and hindrance and…harassment. The one thing that holds men back and stalls them. It’s really that good.
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