Why do Catholics…

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Jim B

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I see a lot of "killing of heretics" from anti-Catholics, who never provide historical context of alleged crimes, and never give an authoritive sources, and always ignore the atrocities committed by Protestants. It's a stupid, uncharitable accusation that backfires and goes nowhere.

So you have never heard of the crusades, the inquisitions, or the countless people worldwide, including the American continents, who were murdered because they refused to accept Catholicism?

Your denial of historical fact is tragic!!!
 
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Illuminator

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By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:35)
TRANSLATION:
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another, but bashing Catholicism with lies and falsehoods is pleasing to God.”
 

BreadOfLife

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If the stories I hear about it’s history are correct, killing heretics is not biblical at all.
Don't believe everything you hear.
MOST kiliing of heretics were matters of state - NOT the Church.

To put it simply - heresy was bad for commerce and it was bad for the peace. Heretics wereIt frowned upon by kingdooms like any other rabble-roiuser.
The same was tru for the mass murders of Catholics by Protestant governments.

Just ask Henry VIII and his equally bloodthgirsty daughter, Elizabeth I . . .
 
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Taken

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I said, "WHO" - not, "WHAT".

The Word of God is akways right.
tens of thousands of diffrent interpretations of that Word are NOT.

I have no issue with a bazillion different churches that Believe and Pray only to God.
 

Brakelite

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As to your lastt comment in RED - "Cathollicism" did't disobey.
Individual Catholics did - including your Protestant Fathers.
Catholicism committed spiritual adultery when her popes embraced and coveted civil power... That union of church and state which is the Hallmark of pagan and Catholic ideology, and fast becoming that of American protestantism as well and thus forming an image to the papal beast, is the obvious declarations of apostasy from God there is. Trusting in the kingdoms of this world and forsaking the Lord as king, doing exactly what Israel did on demanding a king from Samuel. The slight difference is in who Rome appealed to for that civil authority... Instead of one of God's prophets, they accepted the power, the throne, and the authority of the dragon... Through Pagan Rome, legally and directly from the eastern pagan emperor, Justinian 1.
KJV Revelation 13:1-2 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. Now of course you may be asking yourself, what is the connection between the dragon and Justinian? Ask, and I'll be happy to explain.
I see a lot of "killing of heretics" from anti-Catholics, who never provide historical context of alleged crimes, and never give an authoritive sources, and always ignore the atrocities committed by Protestants. It's a stupid, uncharitable accusation that backfires and goes nowhere.
Of course you'd love to actually believe that were true, but the truth is that all killing is just a tad uncharitable, regardless of who the perpetrator is don't you think? I mean, isn't the Pope now in Canada owning up to the atrocities of his church committed against the native people there? And yes, protestant churches did the very same thing to the natives of Australia. The thing is this. Protestants have learned that such practises are bad and morally reprehensible... Which is why in America they wrote and established a constitution and bill of rights that if followed, would curtail such things ever taking place again, at least in America. Which I guess is why the Catholic Church through it's Jesuits and various media outlets over the last couple of centuries has sought to denigrate, undermine, and circumvent the constitution by reintroducing a union of church and state in that country. And lo and behold, what we see is the evangelical and pentecostal arms of protestantism doing that for them. You guys must be real chuffed about that huh. Once again, when those protestants surrender American sovereignty to the papal power, you may welcome the opportunity to use the state to persecute and carry out your killings for you.
Don't believe everything you hear.
MOST kiliing of heretics were matters of state - NOT the Church.

To put it simply - heresy was bad for commerce and it was bad for the peace. Heretics wereIt frowned upon by kingdooms like any other rabble-roiuser.
The same was tru for the mass murders of Catholics by Protestant governments.

Just ask Henry VIII and his equally bloodthgirsty daughter, Elizabeth I . . .
That's nothing more than a weak kneed cowardly cop out. The state did it. Yes they did, with priests on hand to ensure the state did the job thoroughly and with all expediency. Otherwise those representatives of the state would all likewise perish.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Catholicism committed spiritual adultery when her popes embraced and coveted civil power... That union of church and state which is the Hallmark of pagan and Catholic ideology, and fast becoming that of American protestantism as well and thus forming an image to the papal beast, is the obvious declarations of apostasy from God there is. Trusting in the kingdoms of this world and forsaking the Lord as king, doing exactly what Israel did on demanding a king from Samuel. The slight difference is in who Rome appealed to for that civil authority... Instead of one of God's prophets, they accepted the power, the throne, and the authority of the dragon... Through Pagan Rome, legally and directly from the eastern pagan emperor, Justinian 1.
KJV Revelation 13:1-2 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. Now of course you may be asking yourself, what is the connection between the dragon and Justinian? Ask, and I'll be happy to explain.
No - those were that actions of MEN - just like the sinners in YOUR sect.
Everybody has them.

At NO time were these dostrinal matters. If they were - THEN you could say that it was a "Catholic" sin por problem. As long as there are human beings within the Church - there will be SIN.

We are warned about this OVER and OVER in the Bible (Matt. 7:15, Rom. 16:17-18, Matt. 7:15-23, 1 John 4:1, 2 Cor. 11:13-15, 2 Tim. 4:3, Matt. 10:16, Peter 2:1).
Even Jesus had Judas . . .
That's nothing more than a weak kneed cowardly cop out. The state did it. Yes they did, with priests on hand to ensure the state did the job thoroughly and with all expediency. Otherwise those representatives of the state would all likewise perish.
Uhhhh,no - it's nothing more that HISTORY - without the myths and fairy tales..
 

Brakelite

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Catholicism committed spiritual adultery when her popes embraced and coveted civil power... That union of church and state which is the Hallmark of pagan and Catholic ideology, and fast becoming that of American protestantism as well and thus forming an image to the papal beast, is the obvious declarations of apostasy from God there is. Trusting in the kingdoms of this world and forsaking the Lord as king, doing exactly what Israel did on demanding a king from Samuel. The slight difference is in who Rome appealed to for that civil authority... Instead of one of God's prophets, they accepted the power, the throne, and the authority of the dragon... Through Pagan Rome, legally and directly from the eastern pagan emperor, Justinian 1.
No - those were that actions of MEN
How many Popes refused the civil power when offered?
How many Popes have annulled the teachings of Augustine and Thomas Aquinas who I believe both were instrumental in establishing the concept of church/state union in the papacy? You know, the 2 swords theory?
 

Taken

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How many Popes refused the civil power when offered?
How many Popes have annulled the teachings of Augustine and Thomas Aquinas who I believe both were instrumental in establishing the concept of church/state union in the papacy? You know, the 2 swords theory?

You were speaking of the “decision makers” regarding the Catholic Church.
He changed the premise to the “congregation”, and then disagreed with you.
 

Brakelite

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You were speaking of the “decision makers” regarding the Catholic Church.
He changed the premise to the “congregation”, and then disagreed with you.
Yes. The decision makers who had their decisions engraved in infallible stone: decisions approved by series of papal councils, which are also set in infallible stone.
I referred to the donation of Constantinea few weeks back, and he thought it inappropriate that I quote from such a document because it was refuted as a forgery in the 15th century. And indeed it was. What he omitted to mention of course was the irrefutable historical fact that for hundreds of years the Papacy used that document to justify political authority over Europe, steal land, wage war, validate greed. Even though the odd priest challenged it's authenticity, the church itself placed one such challenge (Valla) on the list of prohibited books in the 16th century, and didn't fully come to her senses until the 17th. That's 1100 years of theft and murder based on
HISTORY - without the myths and fairy tales..oh wait...
I'd like to see @Illuminator offer a similar protestant series of events.
 

BreadOfLife

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How many Popes refused the civil power when offered?
How many Popes have annulled the teachings of Augustine and Thomas Aquinas who I believe both were instrumental in establishing the concept of church/state union in the papacy? You know, the 2 swords theory?
And how many popes have TAUGHT contrary to Catholic doctrine?
 

BreadOfLife

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Oh, that's not the issue. That's just another red herring. The issue is popes' teaching, and the church adopting, doctrine contrary to scripture. Like for example the union of church and state and the use of the state to persecute dissenters.
WRONG.
That is absolutely the issue.

I have never claimed theat there weren't bad Popes. In fact - I've pointed out to YOU that Jesus warned about this sort of thing - and so did Paul. My point ALL along is that no Pope has ever TAUGHT contrary to Catholic teaching - nor has any Poper ever TAUGHT heresy.

The Church has ALWAYS had som bad players in it - starting with Judas. That doesn't mean that the Church has succumbed to darkness. Jesus guaranteed that it wouldn't (Matt. 16:18).

There are evil people in EERY church - even YOURS . . .
Seventh-Day Adventist Child Sexual Abuse Lawsuit


Finding Justice for Victims of Sexual Abuse in the Seventh-day Adventist Church
 
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Brakelite

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WRONG.
That is absolutely the issue.

I have never claimed theat there weren't bad Popes. In fact - I've pointed out to YOU that Jesus warned about this sort of thing - and so did Paul. My point ALL along is that no Pope has ever TAUGHT contrary to Catholic teaching - nor has any Poper ever TAUGHT heresy.

The Church has ALWAYS had som bad players in it - starting with Judas. That doesn't mean that the Church has succumbed to darkness. Jesus guaranteed that it wouldn't (Matt. 16:18).

There are evil people in EERY church - even YOURS . . .
Seventh-Day Adventist Child Sexual Abuse Lawsuit


Finding Justice for Victims of Sexual Abuse in the Seventh-day Adventist Church
You and Illuminator are as bad as each other. It's now become a standard response that when you are shown and challenged regarding an ongoing Catholic practise that is entrenched within the mindset of the hierarchy, is utterly unbiblical and antithetical to everything God has established for His people, was clearly forbidden as a practice among God's church, is a particular characteristic of pagan thinking, was encouraged and introduced into the church by the most respected and renowned of Catholic theologians and scholars, both considered doctors of faith, (Augustine and Aquinas), is currently being promoted and exercised by not just the present Pope, but was also to a more or less degree by every Pope before him, the automatic response is
A. Blame it on a 'few' bad apples and
B. Point out individuals' sins in other churches which are not the typical practise of the church itself, but indeed are of a few individuals.
Which in relation to the union of church and state, bears absolutely no relevance whatsoever. We are not discussing a few bad popes here and there, I am not denying there may be a few good popes, the discussion is about politics in the church. Or the church in politics. A combination of statecraft within Christianity, a mingling of the profane and holy, a compromise of allegiance and spiritual adultery whereby the church itself, the actual institution, has within the framework of it's very nature, the acceptance of force and the use of state powers in the military, the political arm, and in judicial legislation to spread the Christian ethos in the world. The excuse when persecutions and killings are mentioned is either the state did it, or a few bad eggs did it.
Let me make something abundantly clear. If my church began to practice political chicanery and the use of the military to enforce Sabbath keeping or Bible study or any other valid or invalid Christian practise, I would leave the church yesterday. And if my church refused to effectively deal with perpetrators of abuse in the church, of whatever nature, I would leave the day before yesterday. And what's more, if my church has in its persona, a characteristic whereby persecution and the use of the "sword" was seen as an acceptable means by which to establish God's kingdom on earth, and the leading theologians from it's inception wrote on the topic, published manuscripts and books extolling the virtue of a union of church and state and the appropriate use of force to compel people to worship according to the rules of the church, I would never join. And I left your church for those very reasons.
 
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BreadOfLife

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You and Illuminator are as bad as each other. It's now become a standard response that when you are shown and challenged regarding an ongoing Catholic practise that is entrenched within the mindset of the hierarchy, is utterly unbiblical and antithetical to everything God has established for His people, was clearly forbidden as a practice smokey God's church, is a particular characteristic of pagan thinking, was encouraged and introduced into the church by the most respected and renowned of Catholic theologians and scholars, both considered doctors of faith, (Augustine and Aquinas), is currently being promoted and exercised by not just the present Pope, but was also to a more or less degree by every Pope before him, the automatic response is
A. Blame it on a 'few' bad apples and
B. Point out individuals' sins in other churches which are not the typical practise of the church itself, but indeed are of a few individuals.
Which in relation to the union of church and state, bears absolutely no relevance whatsoever. We are not discussing a few bad popes here and there, I am not denying there may be a few good popes, the discussion is about politics in the church. Or the church in politics. A combination of statecraft with Christianity, a mingling of the profane and holy, a compromise and spiritual adultery whereby the church itself, the actual institution, has within the framework of it's very nature, the acceptance of force and the use of state powers in the military, the political arm, and in judicial legislation to spread the Christian ethos in the world. The excuse when persecutions and killings are mentioned is either the state did it, or a few bad eggs did it.
Let me make something abundantly clear. If my church began to practice political chicanery and the use of the military to enforce Sabbath keeping or Bible study or any other valid or invalid Christian practise, I would leave the church yesterday. And if my church refused to effectively deal with perpetrators of abuse in the church, of whatever nature, I would leave the day before yesterday. And what's more, if my church has in its persona, a characteristic whereby persecution and the use of the "sword" was seen as an acceptable means by which to establish God's kingdom on earth, and the leading theologians from it's inception wrote on the topic, published manuscripts and books extolling the virtue of a union of church and state and the appropriate use of force to compel people to worship according to the rules of the church, I would never join. And I left your church for those very reasons.
You’ve made an issue about how the Catholic Church is “bad” because of the behavior of some of its adherents – even hierarchy.

As for the “bad players” in Church history – YOU can whine about it until the cows come home and I will STILL be right.

There have ALWAYS been bad players within the Church ever since Jesus picked Judas – and there will ALWAYS BE bad players in the Church.
I showed YOU a couple of examples of some of them in your OWN sect.

You go around pretending that men in the Catholic Church are the “ONLY” ones within Christianity that have done evil – and that SINCE those men were “Catholic” – the entire Church his “evil”.

That’s nonsense – as I have AMPLY shown by some of the bad apples within your OWN sect. I don’t judge your ENTUIRE Church or your doctrines on the behavior of its worst sinners. Scripture WARNS us about that kind of self-righteous judging (Matt. 7:1-6).
That’s nothing but sanctimonious HYPOCRISY . . .

As for your erroneous obsession with the Sabbath – I schooled you othere aas well when you falsely claimed that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify Sunday observance in place of the Sabbath in Scripture. No ONLY did I douse that lie – I gave you the quotes of some of the GIANTS of Christian faith.

So, if you want to whine about the Sabbath some more – go whine elsewhere.
I’ve already PROVEN you wrong . . .
 

Marymog

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And why do Catholics think they have to continually eat the blood and body of Christ for justification?
A Christian has to eat the body and blood of Christ because He told us to: You MUST eat my body and drink my blood to have life in you!

Paul reaffirmed this:1 Corinthians 10:16

Paul also said: You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons.

Have your men taught you that you must NOT eat His body and blood? Have your men taught you that you dont have to “drink the cup of the Lord”?

Bible study Mary