Why OSAS teaches all sins already forgiven

[Behold]

“have” is past tense.

"ALL" is not Past tense.

Jesus came to this World as God in the Flesh, because ALL have sinned .
He is the SACRIFICE for the "WORLD"....>John 3:16, and that is the "ALL" who have sinned.
That's everyone.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you are only stating that God wants us to be holy.

You think this is you doing it, which is exactly how it can't happen

It IS YOU doing it by walking in the Spirit.

The Apostle wouldn’t TELL YOU to be something you couldn’t be. And we are instructed to obey righteousness. Another scripture that your doctrine turns into nonsense.

“But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

ALL have sinned

Yes. But All do not CONTINUE to sin.

"ALL" is not Past tense.

?????

 

[Alfredthefifth]

@Behold @Michiah-Imla
And all here

But our Faith has to be IN= what God requires, that is explained as, "The work of God."

So Joe Blow helps someone out of pure love is, a love that just does humble service

Behold does the same as a required WORK, a work that has to be done

Which is a work righteousness and which is a work that reveals faith?

I will take it further

Joe blow having done that work of a loving heart quietly fades away

Behold having done his required work brags about it

Does this clarify anything?


A work of faith is done out of love, a joyous love and "awe shucks it was just the thing to do a didn't have to do it doesn't mean a thing thing that was done."

A work of work is required work, and obligated work.

A struggling Christian

Alfredthefifth

 

[Behold]

Yes. But All do not CONTINUE to sin.

?????

John 3:16.
Ever read it?
See that world "WORLD". ??
For God so Love the WORLD.......... that is not talking about the trees and the oceans.
That is talking about the PEOPLE......who need JESUS's SACRIFICE for their SIN, as ALL of them, us, and YOU< have sinned.

A question for you now., Michiah-Imla.

For about 20 posts, i have given you the Gospel, which is simply God giving Christ on the Cross for our sin.
You have reacted to this that is Paul's Gospel, as if you have never heard of it, before.
Why do you think that is?

 

[Taken]

It depens on what JB believes.
God accepts our FAITH to give us the Gift of Salvation, but our Faith has to be IN = what God requires, that is explained as : "the work of God".

"The WORK of God, is that you BELIEVE on JESUS, whom God sent".

That is the FAITH that God accepts, to apply the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, to you. Which is the "Gift of Righteousness".

Being born again is the only proof that JB or anyone else is saved.

Almost correct.
Measures of Faith is a gift from God to a man FOR Hearing the Word of God.
* Hear a little, Receive a little Faith. Hear more, Receive more Faith.
Stop Hearing, Stop Receiving Faith.

* Works is Believing what one Hears.
Believe...a works accomplished.
Stop Believing...Works stops.
Believe again...Works resume.
Doubt, Deny....Works stops.
....Every man shall be “rewarded” according to the Works he has done...
....Every man whose Works stops, what things he does, shall be burned.

^ Having Heard...Having that faith, whatever the measure...
^ Having some works...whatever the measure....
Neither...means the man is Saved, Born Again..ie Converted.

So the question was, IS JB saved, BECAUSE he Believed?
The Answer is No.
Believing does not mean Saved.
Believing does not mean Born Again.
Having Faith does not mean Saved.
Having Faith does not mean Born Again.

* Going to a Christian Church, Calling oneself a Christian, Calling oneself a Believer, does not mean Saved or Born again or Converted.

Calling oneself Converted IN Christ, MEANS;
Having Repented, Eternally Forgiven, Crucified with Jesus, soul saved, spirit born again, dwells IN Christ, Spirit of God Dwells IN that man, that man can SIN NO MORE.
^ —-> Doesn’t matter if that man, calls himself a Gentile Christian, a Christian, a Messianic Jew, If he goes to a Christian Church or not, If he goes to a Jewish Synagogue or not.

What repeatedly occurs on these threads...
Is men debating over Biblical characters....saying this guy believed...”therefore” he “WAS SAVED”, and stopped BELIEVING, so he “LOST his Salvation”......which is FALSE.
...NO MAN IS SAVED...BORN AGAIN...CONVERTED IN CHRIST....
*** UNTIL AFTER A BODILY DEATH OCCURS***

And the SAME, debating, SAYING, they BELIEVE, they SIN...(which they never define)...they “try” not to sin...they do works (which they never define) ... they must endure to the end...(which they never define)....
AND Never say, they are saved, born again, converted.

They simply are on the threads, RAILING AGAINST MEN, who ARE saved, ARE born again, ARE Converted IN Christ, Who SIN NO MORE.
Then they post a Scripture, that HAS NOTHING what so ever to do with a CONVERTED man, and say....SEE, SEE, Scripture says you are wrong.

Fact IS; You teach from the Perspective of Paul. Paul was sent to Teach and Preach TO:...primarily the Gentiles, the Gentile “kings” (as they were the primary government heads in Pauls day) AND Jews.
And Yes, it is Gentiles, who are primarily the ones who call themselves Christians...(followers of Christ’s teachings).
YET...inasmuch as MOST Jews, do not follow Christ’s teaching..
(Not an issue, BECAUSE GOD already has a PLAN for their INCLUSION.) AND the “Christian” followers....have a range from A-Z, per understanding of philosophers and men...that HAVE nothing to do with Christ Jesus’ teachings (and many of “Christian” teachings are IN DIRECT Conflict, with Christ’s Teachings.)
SO...IN FACT...Jews & Gentiles......ARE? Divided amongst themselves.
Not a BIG surprise...since Jesus EXPRESSLY Taught...THAT was His “INTENT”...
Luke 12:51
John 7:43
John 10:19

Fact IS: Whether it be a Jew or Gentile...ANY MAN who IS “Converted IN Christ”...thereafter there is VERY LITTLE Scripture “that APPLIES” to him.
All the “warnings”, and examples of men believing and falling away, this sin and that sin, under the law, not under the law, must endure, can fall away, blah, blah; ARE MOOT, of none effect.

Fact is: the ONLY ones in Complete and Assured Forever WITH Christ the Lord Jesus......IS: the Converted IN Christ.
(That is the whole meaning of OSAS)...
All others hang in wondering, hope, maybe, not sure, wait and see...

 

[Taken]

Where do you get this time dependent function from? John 3:16 does not say this.

Not going to debate Scripture with you.
All Scripture is true.
Not all scripture applies to everyone.

Well known NONE of Jesus disciples BECAME effectively “Converted, saved, born again”, until AFTER Jesus ascended up to Heaven.

The Disciples with Jesus, BELIEVED....but yet still could wonder, doubt, even DENY Jesus.....the Facts are right IN Scripture....

Believing did not, does not save a man who is still alive in his flesh.
Conversion Saves, Quickens a man.

 

[Taken]

Yes. But All do not CONTINUE to sin.

This is a typical CLAIM...but fail to define this sin they claim..

Define this SIN you CONTINUE TO DO...

 

[Alfredthefifth]

Fracturing GOD'S word, using only parts of GOD'S word, taking the fractured splitered to parts of GOD'S word as the defining whole.

How can that not BE a sin?

THESE TWO VERSES, that one verse these couple words? They prove that your right and I am wrong! This half knowledge is your faith and I am not going to be saved because I don’t believe it as the whole faith.

I am not going to say anything but pride and conceit. What Jesus warns against repeatedly.

Personally I am happy for you to post your fragments of Scripture. In reading the whole while concentrating on the fragment. I do study Scripture better. But in the end I haven't found a fragment that is anywhere near the absolute conclusion applied to the fragment.

Psalm 106 v3 was thrown out as it is absolutely calling for sinlessness.

That would be fine if it was that sentence all by itself.

But there are 47 more verses that do not allow that meaning.

Even if I hadn't learned in religious studies that the writer even possible writers had had their personal and even horrific sins thrown in their faces by profits of God.
There is no possibility in the whole of Paslm 106 that v3 is an absolute about sinlessness.
But then again since I have dissected the 48 verses I haven't seen a reply, let alone instruction on how i don’t get it.

I spent a lot of time in Romans 11, and could not find anything that supported how a verse or two is used.

Some use a fragment and make a claim. I read the chapter and cannot find the claim

From this I have conclude that the fragment user is a false prophet. Making false claims to lead the weak astray.

If there is the truth in the fragment user leading people a stray?
The sin is so great that muder pales in comparison!
Then there is the pride and bragging in that fragment.
Jesus identified pride and bragging as sin.

I can not be called OSAS even though I have to say I am a sinner. This because there are ways to lose salvation.
Becoming false or following a false profit are ways to lose salvation.

Your comfortable with your fragment and I am comfortable with whole of the the Bible.
Thankfully we will not know until trying to enter heaven.

Maybe not a struggling Christian
Alfredthefifth

 

[Taken]

Fracturing GOD'S word, using only parts of GOD'S word, taking the fractured splitered to parts of GOD'S word as the defining whole.

How can that not BE a sin?

Your comfortable with your fragment and I am comfortable with whole of the the Bible.

Alfredthefifth

I have no issue with Believing the WHOLE of the Bible IS TRUE, and have said so on numerous occasions.

Yet Certainly the WHOLE of the Bible DOES NOT APPLY to me.
If you want to call that “fractured”, so be it.
Some like to call that “cherry picking”, so be it.

I elect to call it what Scripture calls it...
Rightfully Dividing the Word of Truth.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

145

For about 20 posts, i have given you the Gospel, which is simply God giving Christ on the Cross for our sin.

This is not the point of contention. You continue to argue something I am not challenging.

I have already made my case with scripture regarding the varying points made in this thread.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

148

Define this SIN you CONTINUE TO DO...

Unrighteousness.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Some use a fragment and make a claim. I read the chapter and cannot find the claim

There a two things in this passage you should pay attention to:

“cut off” and “unbelief” keeping in mind that the overruling subject is salvation/eternal life.

“Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” (Romans 11:22-23)

Paul is advising his followers that being cut off from salvation like the unbelievers is a real possibility if we fail to heed the condition of continuing in God’s goodness. God’s goodness encompasses his laws, his words, and his holiness.

I read the whole Bible more than once a year. I don’t just study passages to prop up any special doctrines. The writings of the inspired writers are often loaded with fragments of scripture. That objection is weak.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus used his ability to do this:

“…The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.” (John 8:29)



As an unconverted sinner, yes, you do not earn salvation.

But once you’re converted and born again you do earn the fulfillment of your salvation in enduring to the end:

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

oh if we just saw ourselves as the father sees us. We would never even contemplate we could earn anything. And this is WHY salvation is by Grace through faith not of ourselves.

 

[robert derrick]

what is that man doing that is he is “sinning”?

That's worse than a Pharisee.
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

No man, while sinning, can be a born son of God, and not a child of the devil.

No man, while sinning with the devil against God, is born of God.

What do you say.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

FALSE...there is no “THEM” ... there was ONE on this forum.
And instead of retorting on his thread, you have made umpteen anti-salvation threads, and endlessly accused Salvation Believers with all kinds of things they have never said.

False testifying, you should look that up.

it is funny he sits there and tells us what sinners we are. While he continually day after day breaks the command "you shalt not bear false witness"

Typical pharisee

 

[Eternally Grateful]

NO, I have stated several times on these boards that I disagree with my Brothers and Sisters on OSAS! But I don't beat them to death while I disagree!

In one area of defense for the OSAS, Paul plainly said in reference to Grace not being a license to sin,

"what, shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound?"

You think that Grace is a license to sin for the OSAS believers. For some it is, they who are reprobates. But not those who know that sin is what nailed our Lord to that Cross.

You are pointing the finger at the wrong folks!

Sadly,

He is fighting a doctrine he hates (OSAS) and his hate and pride has him refusing to look at people he is attacking to see what they really believe

You can not talk to people like that

 

[Taken]

148


Unrighteousness.

Intentionally?

 

[robert derrick]

What was it I said in my first post to this thread, "in one ear and out the other?"
God doesn't disown His sons when they commit sin. He chastens them to bring them back in order.

The chastening of the Lord is to depart from them that have departed from Him to sin with the devil.

Those who don't know the difference are the bastards that never knew the Lord in the first place.

When you are sinning with the devil, you are neither born of Him nor know Him. If you don't know He is not with you, until you repent, you are as Samson who did not know the Lord was not with him.

Everyone sinning is the same in the sight and judgement of the Lord Jesus Christ: Sinners of the devil.

The worst hypocrisy of OSAS is to claim they are not judged the same as others who do the same as they, and so the world blasphemes the gospel of grace and the cross because of you.

Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

You boast of grace while transgressing the law of Christ and sinning for the devil, and bring shame upon the cross of Jesus Christ.

The truth of this is what goes in one of your ears and out the other, which is where your faith is.

Man is fallen man with a nature of sinning, that is something you will continue to deny.

I do not deny you are a fallen sinful soul, and shall be for life by your own will and doctrine. I have no reason not to agree with your testimony of being one.

Anyone who thinks they are born of God and a child of the devil at the same time, while sinning with the devil against God, has no sound mind that can be corrected by Scripture.

I would sooner have dinner with unrighteous sinners of the world, who do not name the name of Christ.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

 

[robert derrick]

HERETICS, rejoice in commandments, and law, and anything that is some type of SELF EFFORT to try to be saved or stay saved.

I hate vain thoughts and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

You people really don't know what you are saying, when you say it.

This is the result of the unrighteous, who declare the letters of the law of God in Scripture are dead and no longer matter to them: it is heresy to do the law of Christ.

While the saints of Jesus Christ love to keep His commandment and do His law, you people celebrate your grace to sin with the devil.

It is not possible to correct OSAS proselytes.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children.

There is no help for them that boast of being unjust, and count it heresy to be righteous, even as Jesus is righteous, and declare it impossible to walk with Him in the flesh, even as He walked in the days of His flesh.