22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think they were in the first resurrection and have their new glorified bodies…

So, who do you think are the mortals who would populate the earth during the thousand years then? Would they be saved or unsaved?

 

[marks]

You did not answer one single question (as is your pattern) but ducked around the issues. Please re-address.

You've claimed as your "contradiction" that Jerusalem is taken, the women raped, the town ransacked, many go into captivity, and How Is It that this is during the "millennial kingdom"? That was your objection, was it not?

To which I replied, if you take the chapter in context, then those things are happening before Jesus comes and delivers them. I highlighted "Then" in that passage to show this.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

(19) Premil has an unhealthy obsessive focus on natural Israel, wrongly believing her to be God’s chosen people today under the new covenant. As a result, they have a mistaken fixation with natural Jerusalem in the Middle East, as if it is the epicenter of God’s workings with mankind on this earth and the place of His unconditional favor. This is wrong! They ignore much Scripture that shows that the fig tree has been cut down, the kingdom of God has been removed from Israel. Ancient Jerusalem and the temple therein were merely Old Testament imperfect shadows of the heavenly reality that was revealed at the first advent. The New Testament repeatedly teaches that we have become one with spiritual believing Israel in the OT. It makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one new man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time!

(20) General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the quick (or living) and the dead,” “every man,” “every eye,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men everywhere,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race (or the full amount of all the wicked) are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. If one was to take a precise straightforward interpretation of these phrases, one could only come to conclusion that there are no exclusions here. This shows that the Premil boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.

(21) Premil takes common linguistic terms that are easily understood by the unindoctrinated observer in any language to mean the opposite to what they actually say. For example, Premil does not believe that "first" means first and "last" means last. The English words “first” and “last” are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. The word protos means first, as in the foremost in time, place, order or importance. The word eschatos on the other hand means end, last, farthest and final. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other.

(22) Premil does not believe that “the end” refers to the end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It is the termination point of a thing. When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then most sane theologians agree it is talking about “the beginning” of creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason I believe is because it cuts across a lot of their end-time theology they have been taught. But I believe we should treat both sayings similarly. Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

I did not read all your covenantal arguments to not believein premillenialism ( though which version of pre-mil are you against).

But there is only one reason to believe in the pre-millenial physical return of Jesus Christ to reign for 1,000 years---IT IS BIBLICAL!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I recognize that as Isaiah 2:4, but you should specify which book and chapter you are quoting from in case someone doesn't know. Please read my post #331 where I show what time period the last days refers to, according to scripture. It does not refer to a time period after Christ returns.

I missed that post I guess. I can go look at it. But I know the last days as the tribulation and onward.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 12:12-13 KJV
12) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Context is king . . . as they say . . .

Much love!

When did Peter indicate that the last days began in Acts 2:16-21? When did he indicate that the last days will end in 2 Peter 3:3-4?

 

[marks]

You did not answer one single question (as is your pattern) but ducked around the issues. Please re-address.

Vanity.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I missed that post I guess. I can go look at it. But I know the last days as the tribulation and onward.

Please read it (post #331) because your current understanding of the last days does not line up with what scripture teaches.

 

[WPM]

In this context,

Isaiah 2:2-4 KJV
2) And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3) And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4) And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

. . . I'd answer that these last days are as these things be fulfilled. In the last days, Jesus will establish His rule over the earth from Jerusalem.

Much love!

So, you are inventing a Mark 2 "lasts days" to facilitate Premil that are introduced after the "last day." How convenient!

 

[marks]

So, you are inventing a Mark 2 "lasts days" to facilitate Premil that are introduced after the "last day." How convenient!

Just make sure you are examining contexts before reaching conclusions.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

Just make sure you are examining contexts before reaching conclusions.

Much love!

Do you also invent 2 NHNEs as well to sustain your theory?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I did not read all your covenantal arguments to not believein premillenialism ( though which version of pre-mil are you against).

But there is only one reason to believe in the pre-millenial physical return of Jesus Christ to reign for 1,000 years---IT IS BIBLICAL!

Please back up your claims with scripture. Our opinions mean nothing without scriptural support. Thanks.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So how are people dying in your future millennium? There must be mortals in it.

I don’t think a lot are dying but…I would assume they die in various ways…?

Yes, I think there are mortals in the thousand years. I think it probably begins as not many, seeing as how the tribulation is so horrifying and destructive.

 

[WPM]

Vanity.

More ad hominem from Premils on this thread who cannot deal with the Op. I will add this to the list of insults and false charges:

“You are a fake.”

“Vanity.”

“The Amill position is in support of Satan's working of a one-world government.”

“I have countered the baloney your Amill false believes.”

“This is hilarious.”

"Hogwash -- all of it!"

"Balderdash!”

"more hot air!"

"You need to repent to Jesus and ask Him forgiveness for denying His Word."

“What you're asking is just silly.”

“you need to get real, and stop those silly vague questions that only serve as attempted traps, like "are you still beating your wife?"

“I ain't easy prey like you're used to.”

“why not admit the charlatans you heed failed to prepare you for that”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Please read it (post #331) because your current understanding of the last days does not line up with what scripture teaches.

Yes, I’ll read it but I think you are really saying it does not line up with your current understanding and interpretation of it.
Having a hard time keeping up. I’m sure I’ve missed some other posts as well.

 

[WPM]

I don’t think a lot are dying but…I would assume they die in various ways…?

Yes, I think there are mortals in the thousand years. I think it probably begins as not many, seeing as how the tribulation is so horrifying and destructive.

You are still not addressing the contradictions in your position. We have established that all the wicked are destroyed and all the redeemed are glorified when Jesus comes. So, who is this 3rd group that you are too wicked to be caught up and too righteous to be destroyed? You are going in circles here. I am getting very dizzy!

 

[marks]

More ad hominem from Premils on this thread who cannot deal with the Op. I will add it to the list of false charges:

The comment had to do with the emptiness of your remark.

And otherwise it's slander or something, what is that other word? Defamation. to attribute to me negative comments I've not said.

Do you see the direction you are going here?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you also invent 2 NHNEs as well to sustain your theory?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 22 reasons is criticism against premill. It will just go down hill from there. Bullying is just as nonsensical as rudeness.

Is this your way of saying you are completely fine with the way that Davy talks to us? I can never tell for sure what it is you're trying to say.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Vanity.

As in useless to continue? Futility?
You certainly couldn’t have meant the post was vanity as in arrogance…

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Please back up your claims with scripture. Our opinions mean nothing without scriptural support. Thanks.

Rev. 19 occurs before REv. 20. Jesus returns to earth in REv. 19, battles and vanquishes.

IN REv. 20:
1. We see Satan bound and abyssed for 1,000 years! There is nothing to warrant thinking this 1,000 years is allegorical or symbolic.
2. We see people co reigning with Jesus- for 1,000 years! We see those who died in the tribulation for refusing the mark reigning- for 1,000 years.
3. The rest of the dead were not resurrected for 1,000 years! these people , the second death has authority over them.
4. Satan is loosed, after being bound---for 1,000 years!
5. He goes out and decives the nations living on earth and brings them to Jerusalem!
6. God destroys them, wipes out the universe and establishes the Great white throne--after the 1,000 years!
7. Eternity happens after every one is assigned their eternal hoime!

6 times God inspired 1,000 years as a time measure- we should pay atrtention.

Just like the 144,000 Jews. He goes to great lengths to define they are 144,000. 12,000 from 12 tribes- we should pay attention.

 

[WPM]

Amils believe in one "lasts days" period which ends on the "last day" when Jesus comes to introduce the one and only NHNE and the eternal state. Simple! No adding unto Scripture required!