7 Churches as Personality Types

[Enoch111]

But why put them with the Apocalypse and say we are to overcome... unless they are specifically targeted to a specific people at a specific time.

The words of Christ are always for universal application. At the same time, within those letters, there are specific issues which are within the lives of individual Christians and individual churches. But they are not limited to any specific time. All Christians and all churches for the last 2,000+ years have needed those messages. And yes, believers are to be overcomers by the power of the Holy Spirit.

False doctrines and false practices had already crept into the churches while the apostles were on earth. So those seven churches are a microcosm of all churches in all ages. The real issue is whether those warnings are being taken to heart by the churches which surround us.

 

[marks]

Most books are inspired by God. Only one NT book is dictated by Jesus and is not authored as such but transcibed.

For myself, I hold to the "plenary inspiration" of Scripture by God, that is, every word and every letter was inspired by Him.

Jesus dictated the letters, however, He did not dictate the rest of the book. He showed John a vision, and John wrote the things he saw and heard.

Concerning the writing of the Bible, Peter declared that the prophets didn't just write their own ideas, but that the Spirit of God carried them in their writing. Peter also referred to Paul's writings as Scripture, same as the OT.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The words of Christ are always for universal application. At the same time, within those letters, there are specific issues which are within the lives of individual Christians and individual churches. But they are not limited to any specific time. All Christians and all churches for the last 2,000+ years have needed those messages. And yes, believers are to be overcomers by the power of the Holy Spirit.

False doctrines and false practices had already crept into the churches while the apostles were on earth. So those seven churches are a microcosm of all churches in all ages. The real issue is whether those warnings are being taken to heart by the churches which surround us.

2000 years ago, Jesus said, He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So obviously they are not narrowly targeted to just those believers at the end of the age.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

2000 years ago, Jesus said, He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So obviously they are not narrowly targeted to just those believers at the end of the age.

As I already indicated, those letters are timeless. They were directly applicable to those seven churches, but they are also applicable to all churches and all individuals in all ages. Which means that every church in existence today needs to have Revelation 2 & 3 preached at least once each year so that there is genuine repentance.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And why do you equate yourself with the lukewarm church? Because of the admonishment, the counsel, the reward?
There is homework to this thread.

I don't equate myself to the Laodicean Church....I said I believe we are in the Laodicean Church Age. .

 

[David Boyer]

For myself, I hold to the "plenary inspiration" of Scripture by God, that is, every word and every letter was inspired by Him.

Jesus dictated the letters, however, He did not dictate the rest of the book. He showed John a vision, and John wrote the things he saw and heard.

Concerning the writing of the Bible, Peter declared that the prophets didn't just write their own ideas, but that the Spirit of God carried them in their writing. Peter also referred to Paul's writings as Scripture, same as the OT.

Much love!

References... and you still haven't answered the question.

 

[David Boyer]

I don't equate myself to the Laodicean Church....I said I believe we are in the Laodicean Church Age. .

Right and I don't believe the church age theory is correct. It can be made to fit but not well enough for that to be the reason for their inclusion.

 

[David Boyer]

As I already indicated, those letters are timeless. They were directly applicable to those seven churches, but they are also applicable to all churches and all individuals in all ages. Which means that every church in existence today needs to have Revelation 2 & 3 preached at least once each year so that there is genuine repentance.

But there is a primary reason for the inclusion of the 7 church letters in Revelation, and secondary reasons might also be valid.
I would say that anytime before the end-times is a secondary use of the 7 letters. Still valid, but not necessarily the intended use.

 

[marks]

As I already indicated, those letters are timeless. They were directly applicable to those seven churches, but they are also applicable to all churches and all individuals in all ages. Which means that every church in existence today needs to have Revelation 2 & 3 preached at least once each year so that there is genuine repentance.

I find many different applications to these letters. Just Jesus' statement, He who has an ear to hear, let him here what the Spirit says to the churches, this says they are for every person and every church.

Much love!

 

[marks]

References... and you still haven't answered the question.

What question would you like for me to answer?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I would say that anytime before the end-times is a secondary use of the 7 letters. Still valid, but not necessarily the intended use.

No. Jesus said, in that day, He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. These letters are given to all people in all times in this age. The First and Primary application was to the messengers of those particular churches at that time.

Much love!

 

[marks]

References

I should think you should know these if you are having this discussion.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There was an actual church in Ephesus, and that church had a messenger, and to that messenger, Jesus, through John, sent a letter. Jesus wrote to the messenger of the church of Ephesus. And so the letter should be read with that understanding. There was a certian individual to whom Jesus wrote.

At the end of the letter, Jesus expands this it include, He who has an ear to hear, and, What the Spirit says to the churches. Each letter is not merely to the messenger, but to the church, and not just the church, but all the churches, and not that only, but to all who have an ear to hear.

Much love!

 

[David Boyer]

There was an actual church in Ephesus, and that church had a messenger, and to that messenger, Jesus, through John, sent a letter. Jesus wrote to the messenger of the church of Ephesus. And so the letter should be read with that understanding. There was a certian individual to whom Jesus wrote.

At the end of the letter, Jesus expands this it include, He who has an ear to hear, and, What the Spirit says to the churches. Each letter is not merely to the messenger, but to the church, and not just the church, but all the churches, and not that only, but to all who have an ear to hear.

Much love!

And yet you refuse to read the verses as I requested. Your pride is showing. Closed mind and a stiff neck.
Acts 7:51 You stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do you

If the 1st century churches where the primary... then end-times churches would be secondary and all churches through the ages would be tertiary.

References where Peter says Paul's teaching is scripture?
Anytime you make a biblical claim, I will ask for references.

 

[marks]

Anytime you make a biblical claim, I will ask for references.

Then you are playing the hypocrit, as you've defended your non-use of references.

And yet you refuse to read the verses as I requested.

What have I refused? What makes you think that? What makes you think I'm not well versed in these passages?

Your pride is showing. Closed mind and a stiff neck.

As you judge, so shall you be judged. Do you know why that is?

If the 1st century churches where the primary...

Revelation 2:1 YLT
1) 'To the messenger of the Ephesian assembly write: These things saith he who is holding the seven stars in his right hand, who is walking in the midst of the seven lamp-stands—the golden:

Answer for yourself. To whom did Jesus write?

References where Peter says Paul's teaching is scripture?

It's in Peter's letter of course. Not "teaching", writing. And if you don't know the passage it will do you good to search for it, and find it.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Who Authored the Bible?

You appear to hold the Revelation as some "higher" form of Scripture, however, All the Bible is God's Word to man. There isn't some "hierarchy" of one book over another.

Do you see some sort of "conflict" that must be "settled"?

The some One Who told John to write is the same One Who told Moses to write, and told Jeremiah, and all the others.

Much love!

EVERY WORD applies to the lambs of the LORD . Now hit those trenches .

 

[amigo de christo]

Then you are playing the hypocrit, as you've defended your non-use of references.


What have I refused? What makes you think that? What makes you think I'm not well versed in these passages?


As you judge, so shall you be judged. Do you know why that is?



Revelation 2:1 YLT
1) 'To the messenger of the Ephesian assembly write: These things saith he who is holding the seven stars in his right hand, who is walking in the midst of the seven lamp-stands—the golden:

Answer for yourself. To whom did Jesus write?


It's in Peter's letter of course. Not "teaching", writing. And if you don't know the passage it will do you good to search for it, and find it.

Much love!

It goes a little like this , AS also our beloved brother paul writes . YEP , PETER mentioned HIM by name . THEY all knew
the TRUTH . NOW hit those trenches . Ol amigo got a bit spooked when i noticed this feller said
Almost all books were inspired . Sounds like hims might be sitting under folks who are picking and choosing some things .
JA , das ist nicht gut . as in NOT GOOD .

 

[David Boyer]

Then you are playing the hypocrit, as you've defended your non-use of references.


What have I refused? What makes you think that? What makes you think I'm not well versed in these passages?


As you judge, so shall you be judged. Do you know why that is?



Revelation 2:1 YLT
1) 'To the messenger of the Ephesian assembly write: These things saith he who is holding the seven stars in his right hand, who is walking in the midst of the seven lamp-stands—the golden:

Answer for yourself. To whom did Jesus write?


It's in Peter's letter of course. Not "teaching", writing. And if you don't know the passage it will do you good to search for it, and find it.

Much love!

Defended my non use of references.. I have defended my non use of how this forum works to insert references. Ask for a reference on my biblical claims and I will provide.

What have you refused... I asked you to read the verses with my frame of reference in mind and you said you had a closed mind(at least I think that was you that said that). But even in your answer you project a smugness of not needing to go back and reread what you already know. I have asked you to read it with fresh a perspective, which I haven't seen evidence that you have.

You will be judged... hey I call a spade a spade. If it walks like a duck... you know the rest.

To whom did Jesus write... I have conceded that the primary was to the first century... but the secondary would be to the end-times church because it fits with the apocalyptic writing.

In Peters letter of course... again no references like I said at the beginning. Again you refuse to answer that question.

Pride is a greater issue for you, much more than mine in this matter.

 

[marks]

you said you had a closed mind

Really.

Where did I say that? Quote me.

Much love!

 

[David Boyer]

Really.

Where did I say that? Quote me.

Much love!

Read the parenthetical statement and accept my apologies for confusing you with someone who sounds like you.
But you sill refuse to answer my questions (sign of a closed mind). You apparently refuse to reread Rev 2+3 with my frame of reference (sign of a closed mind).
So excuse me for mixing you up with someone who, at least, was honest about their closed mind.