Why the FLESH is against the SPIRIT.

[ScottA]

I find it amazing--down right shameful, that with God being spirit, so many would-be Christians continually wage war against the Spirit.

To which I would say: Those who are against the Spirit, are simply for the flesh and therefore pro flesh.

I mean, it should be obvious to children of a spiritual God, that there is nothing to resist, but rather everything to welcome, everything to gain! It should also be obvious that God has shown that the Spirit is capable of manifesting in whatever form--even as a donkey--at will. In other words the future for the children of God who are destine by Jesus' prayer to be One with Him, is spirit and yet lacking nothing, not even the flesh.

Why then would anyone resist and war against what is obviously more, higher, and greater...and favor that which is lower and less than what is promised?

(Rhetorical)

If you do not know why--you should give it some serious consideration. And if you call yourself a Christian, and have been resisting that very nature of God--you should cease and desist before God takes it personal and invokes the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Behold]

I find it amazing--down right shameful, that with God being spirit,

Scott,

God is "A" Spirit, not just Spirit.

See, some horrible "new bibles' teach that "God is Spirit", instead of the Correct Translation..>"God is A Spirit".
This distinction matters immensely.
Why?
Because if you don't make the distinction between God's Spirit and Spirit, in general, then you have not recognized that there is more then one Spirit.
And a real BIBLE will make this Distinction..
For example there is the UN-HOLY Spirit, and the Spirit of Animals, and the unregenerate spirit in a unbeliever.

Is GOD ANY OF THAT?
HE IS NOT !!!

So, a REAL BIBLE makes the Distinction between "spirit", that can be the UN-HOLY Spirit, and God's Spirit that is "A" Spirit, and that Spirit is the HOLY Spirit, which is God's.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I find it amazing--down right shameful, that with God being spirit, so many would-be Christians continually wage war against the Spirit.

To which I would say: Those who are against the Spirit, are simply for the flesh and therefore pro flesh.

I mean, it should be obvious to children of a spiritual God, that there is nothing to resist, but rather everything to welcome, everything to gain! It should also be obvious that God has shown that the Spirit is capable of manifesting in whatever form--even as a donkey--at will. In other words the future for the children of God who are destine by Jesus' prayer to be One with Him, is spirit and yet lacking nothing, not even the flesh.

Why then would anyone resist and war against what is obviously more, higher, and greater...and favor that which is lower and less than what is promised?

(Rhetorical)

If you do not know why--you should give it some serious consideration. And if you call yourself a Christian, and have been resisting that very nature of God--you should cease and desist before God takes it personal and invokes the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

God is the holy spirit. Everything no matter what is of God,from God the Creator of everything.

I think the challenge between our flesh and spirit is to learn to know we are more than flesh blood and bone. Which is all of God as well.
However our focus in this world is let to believe ''I am'' most important. My-Self.

When we let go of that and trust what we cannot see,spirit, we learn a whole new language. And find a whole new trust. We go from trusting what is seen,to what is spirit and everywhere we look.

We can never be separated from God.:)

 

[ScottA]

Scott,

God is "A" Spirit, not just Spirit.

See, some horrible "new bibles' teach that "God is Spirit", instead of the Correct Translation..>"God is A Spirit".
This distinction matters immensely.
Why?
Because if you don't make the distinction between God's Spirit and Spirit, in general, then you have not recognized that there is more then one Spirit.
And a real BIBLE will make this Distinction..
For example there is the UN-HOLY Spirit, and the Spirit of Animals, and the unregenerate spirit in a unbeliever.

Is GOD ANY OF THAT?
HE IS NOT !!!

So, a REAL BIBLE makes the Distinction between "spirit", that can be the UN-HOLY Spirit, and God's Spirit that is "A" Spirit, and that Spirit is the HOLY Spirit, which is God's.

Good point!

However, for the point that I hope to make, perhaps it doesn't matter. Yes, one should understand that not all spirits are the same. But the point here, is a bit more elementary--which is the point where many have obviously stumbled...which is that God is spirit. Then, of course your caution is indeed in order and good to understand.

For this very elementary point Jesus even had to scold the religious lawyers, saying:

Luke 11:52
“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”
​

The point then becomes one of not "entering" the kingdom of God. So elementary, but so many are stopped by not understanding it.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I find it amazing--down right shameful, that with God being spirit, so many would-be Christians continually wage war against the Spirit.

To which I would say: Those who are against the Spirit, are simply for the flesh and therefore pro flesh.

I mean, it should be obvious to children of a spiritual God, that there is nothing to resist, but rather everything to welcome, everything to gain! It should also be obvious that God has shown that the Spirit is capable of manifesting in whatever form--even as a donkey--at will. In other words the future for the children of God who are destine by Jesus' prayer to be One with Him, is spirit and yet lacking nothing, not even the flesh.

Why then would anyone resist and war against what is obviously more, higher, and greater...and favor that which is lower and less than what is promised?

(Rhetorical)

If you do not know why--you should give it some serious consideration. And if you call yourself a Christian, and have been resisting that very nature of God--you should cease and desist before God takes it personal and invokes the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Sorry, Scott, but this doesn't make sense and cannot describe either a Christian or non-Christian.

A non-Christian does not have the Spirit for the flesh to war with. They are ONLY flesh, but have a mind as in Romans 7:25. That is like the Jews knowing the law with their mind, but their flesh fights against the law.

A Christian who has the Spirit does not have the flesh. For you are NOT IN THE FLESH but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells you. And if you do not have the Spirit of Christ you do not belong to Him.

This misnomer of Spirit is common in the Church. Translators even made an error in translation when in Galatians 5:17 they capitalized Spirit. No this is about the law and before the Spirit, so it is spirit, and this is the sister verse to Romans 7:25 where mind is equal to spirit.

 

[ScottA]

God is the holy spirit. Everything no matter what is of God,from God the Creator of everything.

I think the challenge between our flesh and spirit is to learn to know we are more than flesh blood and bone. Which is all of God as well.
However our focus in this world is let to believe ''I am'' most important. My-Self.

When we let go of that and trust what we cannot see,spirit, we learn a whole new language. And find a whole new trust. We go from trusting what is seen,to what is spirit and everywhere we look.

We can never be separated from God.:)

I agree...but that last line does need a little clarification...

I get your point...but that does not mean one cannot be destroyed both in soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

John 15:2
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.​

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I agree...but that last line does need a little clarification...

I get your point...but that does not mean one cannot be destroyed both in soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

John 15:2
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.​

I personally believe the scriptures that refer to Sheol.
God cannot destroy himself. All is of and from God.


13 Bible verses about Creatures Returning To Dust

Ecclesiastes 12
Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 3:20All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry, Scott, but this doesn't make sense and cannot describe either a Christian or non-Christian.

A non-Christian does not have the Spirit for the flesh to war with. They are ONLY flesh, but have a mind as in Romans 7:25. That is like the Jews knowing the law with their mind, but their flesh fights against the law.

A Christian who has the Spirit does not have the flesh. For you are NOT IN THE FLESH but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells you. And if you do not have the Spirit of Christ you do not belong to Him.

This misnomer of Spirit is common in the Church. Translators even made an error in translation when in Galatians 5:17 they capitalized Spirit. No this is about the law and before the Spirit, so it is spirit, and this is the sister verse to Romans 7:25 where mind is equal to spirit.

Yes--that is the irony!

Among us there are many spirits, even that of the anti-Christ. "And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:14

 

[ScottA]

I personally believe the scriptures that refer to Sheol.
God cannot destroy himself. All is of and from God.


13 Bible verses about Creatures Returning To Dust

Ecclesiastes 12
Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 3:20All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

I wouldn't say that God destroys, but rather has repurposed in a form of re-allotment:

Matthew 13:12
For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.​

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Repurposes,re-forms. Yes that works.

I wouldn't say that God destroys, but rather has repurposed in a form of re-allotment:

Matthew 13:12
For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.​

 

[Behold]

. For you are NOT IN THE FLESH but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells you.

Here is something interesting.
The same Apostle who said ""you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit"...= being born again into the SPIRIT of God, as "one with God", "in Christ", also said this....

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the FLESH".

So, this believer, has "fallen from Grace', as to be "in the flesh", is related to trying to do works of self righteousness, to try to continue to be saved.
In other words, they left real Faith in Christ, and are now "in the Flesh", which is to be of the carnal mind that is trying to DO something by self effort (flesh) to both be saved and stay saved.

Most Christian are that person.

The test?

Do you believe you can LOSE YOUR Salvation, reader?
If you do, then you are "in the FLESH", believing that its not God who keeps you saved, but its YOU DOING SOMETHING.........to try to keep yourself saved.

This person, who is ""in the flesh"", is going to teach and believe....>"Christ started my Salvation, but i have to complete it".

"I know that Jesus saved me......but but........but ...........but.......here is my LIST of things i have to do, and keep from doing so that i try to keep myself saved".

See that?

If you are that one, then you are "in the Flesh" and your faith in Christ is Broken.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here is something interesting.
The same Apostle who said ""you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit"...= being born again into the SPIRIT of God, as "one with God", "in Christ", also said this....

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the FLESH".

So, this believer, has "fallen from Grace', as to be "in the flesh", is related to trying to do works of self righteousness, to try to continue to be saved.
In other words, they left real Faith in Christ, and are now "in the Flesh", which is to be of the carnal mind that is trying to DO something by self effort (flesh) to both be saved and stay saved.

Most Christian are that person.

The test?

Do you believe you can LOSE YOUR Salvation, reader?
If you do, then you are "in the FLESH", believing that its not God who keeps you saved, but its YOU DOING SOMETHING.........to try to keep yourself saved.

This person, who is ""in the flesh"", is going to teach and believe....>"Christ started my Salvation, but i have to complete it".

"I know that Jesus saved me......but but........but ...........but.......here is my LIST of things i have to do, and keep from doing so that i try to keep myself saved".

See that?

If you are that one, then you are "in the Flesh" and your faith in Christ is Broken.

I do believe that some can lose their salvation. There are too many warnings from the apostles to deny that. But me, personally, I have assurance that I am saved and will continue to be because I heed the warnings and keep myself pure. The problem in some is being introduced to false doctrines of demons, like OSAS no matter what sins you continue to commit.

2 Peter 2:
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[Enoch111]

I find it amazing--down right shameful, that with God being spirit, so many would-be Christians continually wage war against the Spirit.

It is not the Christians who wage war against the Spirit (capital S) but it is the old Adamic sin nature -- called "the flesh" -- which is at war with the Spirit.

When a person in born again "the flesh" is not eradicated automatically and immediately. It would appear that God wants Christians to "mortify" or "crucify" the flesh as a means of progressing in sanctification. But not all do this all the time, therefore the flesh often takes control. But this does not have to happen. Christians are told to (a) walk in the Spirit, (b) produce the fruit of the Spirit, and (c) exercise the gifts of the Spirit. Which means a total surrender to God and Christ, and a total turning away from sin and evil.

 

[Behold]

I do believe that some can lose their salvation. ”

Salvation is Christ on the Cross.
This can't be "Lost", as the believer does not DO IT.

So, when you say, "Lost their Salvation", you are now understanding that CHRIST in them, can't be "lost'.

You know, ive never met a charismatic that understands Salvation.
The entire charismatic movement, TEACHES that you can "lose your salvation", as its a works based situation.

Listen
Spiritual Union can't be "lost".

"One with GOD", can't be lost.

Being Born again, can't be ended....as you can't undo a BIRTH IN THE SPIRIT< That GOD HAS CAUSED.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

as its a works based situation.

No, it is a faith based situation, and faith without works is dead. That is what you fail to teach. Besides, it is the Spirit in us doing the work, not us, so again you are far from understanding what is needed for salvation. And those "works" are mature fruit - the fruit of the Spirit. It is ALL SPIRIT.

Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Salvation is Christ on the Cross.

The way one "loses" their salvation if they had it to begin with which is being born again of the Spirit is resurrecting the carnal flesh that had been crucified and totally quenching the Spirit. Romans 6:6-16. No active sinner when they die goes to heaven. They are filthy again, like covered in vomit. There is no second crucifixion to take their sins away again.

Romans 6:6-16
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon (Proverbs 23:7) yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Behold]

No, it is a faith based situation, and faith without works is dead..

As i told you.
All Charismatics believe that they can lose their salvation, because they have no REAL FAITH in Christ.
See, when your faith is dead, you then are trying to save yourself.
That is the theology of "i can lose my salvation" because my Salvation is based ME, and not on JESUS.= proof of DEAD Faith.
See that?
That is YOU according to your POST, and the next one also, more then likely.

Listen,
Heretics teach that Faith saves you or that works save you.(Legalism)
The NT teaches that God saves you through your faith. = ONCE, proven by being born again ONE TIME....as a "New Creation in CHRIST".
You might want to check on that 1stCenturylady.

Also, I have a Thread on the "willfully Sinning" Hebrews, in the book of Hebrews, that teaches that this verse is a sister verse to Acts 28, where Paul is AGAIN Giving the same Christ Rejecting Hebrews, a chance to BELIEVE the Gospel and Trust in their Messiah.
They AGAIN, will not, exactly as they will not in Hebrews Chapter 6, and Hebrews Chapter 10.
If you own a bible, go and check it out, when you have time.

You might also find it necessary to know, that ive been teaching the real students of the New Testament on THIS Forum, to notice something about Cross Denying Heretics that is their TRADEMARK.

Ive told them quite a few times now.....that every Cross denying Heretic lives in .... 1.) Hebrews.... 2.) James... and 3.) Matthew.

Thanks for coming around again to show the real students of the Word, this FACT about Heretics.

 

[ScottA]

The way one "loses" their salvation if they had it to begin with which is being born again of the Spirit is resurrecting the carnal flesh that had been crucified and totally quenching the Spirit. Romans 6:6-16. No active sinner when they die goes to heaven. They are filthy again, like covered in vomit. There is no second crucifixion to take their sins away again.

Romans 6:6-16
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon (Proverbs 23:7) yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

It is evident in this passage that Paul was not talking to those who had been "changed", but to those who had not. But you are assuming that they had actually been changed and that they were "a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new", which Paul also said.

Paul has not contradicted himself, but obviously spoke to those yet to be changed, and also to those who had been changed already. Which we now should perceive and discern holds no grounds for believing that the salvation of God can be taken away as if a person could actually return to take up their body again once they have died, as "the body of sin" is "done away with."

 

[quietthinker]

Why the FLESH is against the SPIRIT.
....and I thought a rare steak and a Johnny Walker upheld America!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

All Charismatics believe that they can lose their salvation, because they have no REAL FAITH in Christ.

All? What did I just say? I said that I have assurance. What does assurance mean?

Peter says those who do not grow (believing that is works and not necessary) are blind.

9 For he who lacks these things (5-7) is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Behold, you have a lot more to add to your teachings to make them scriptural. Read the above but in whole 2 Peter 1:2-11.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It is evident in this passage that Paul was not talking to those who had been "changed", but to those who had not. But you are assuming that they had actually been changed and that they were "a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new", which Paul also said.

Paul has not contradicted himself, but obviously spoke to those yet to be changed, and also to those who had been changed already. Which we now should perceive and discern holds no grounds for believing that the salvation of God can be taken away as if a person could actually return to take up their body again once they have died, as "the body of sin" is "done away with."

No, he is talking to those who have been changed. But we still have our free will, and ears to listen to false doctrines if we choose to. There are plenty of those on the forums.

The result of those false doctrines is not keeping yourself pure. Then the other verse you left out is applicable


Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.