Any other Christians in here interested in evolution? I mean genuinely wants to understand it.

[Ronald David Bruno]

So simple a child could understand it huh? Yet so many of y’all are so completely missing it. No contextual analysis, no genre mentions, not patterns and so on. I listed a handful of books and podcasts. You may want to check them out.

As an infant understands the love of his parents, truth is received in such simplicity that it escapes some. So the child grows up, reads and studies a handful of books about love and can't find it. He goes off analyzing the ingredients like a science experience and still remains confounded. Some things are given to us in very basic simple ways.

 

[Skovand1075]

As an infant understands the love of his parents, truth is received in such simplicity that it escapes some. So the child grows up, reads and studies a handful of books about love and can't find it. He goes off analyzing the ingredients like a science experience and still remains confounded. Some things are given to us in very basic simple ways.

The comparison makes no sense.
It’s more like this.

you have an ancient text from a culture that is mostly gone that speaks a language you don’t know, translated from over 5,000 manuscripts to convey ideas that you have to covert into modern ones to make sense of. I don’t even have the patience to go further into this convo to be honest. It’s not worth my time.
This post is for Christian’s who realize evolution is probably true and want to learn more about it. A good forum for this is here.

The BioLogos Forum

 

[Dropship]

I've read Dawkins "Climbing Mount Improbable" and found it to be mostly guesswork full of more holes than a colander..

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The comparison makes no sense.
It’s more like this.

you have an ancient text from a culture that is mostly gone that speaks a language you don’t know, translated from over 5,000 manuscripts to convey ideas that you have to covert into modern ones to make sense of. I don’t even have the patience to go further into this convo to be honest. It’s not worth my time.
This post is for Christian’s who realize evolution is probably true and want to learn more about it. A good forum for this is here.

The BioLogos Forum

We do have over 5300 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament that confirm the reliability of the Bible. Fragments date back from 20-30 years after Jesus death and resurrection and complete copies from 325 AD. The Dead scrolls contain fragments and even a completw copy of Isaiah dating back to 150 BC, which is a thousand years older than amy copy we had prior to 1947.
With only 400 Greek words in question ( that don't effect any doctrine btw), so we can confidently claim that the New Testament has been 99.99% accurately passed down through the generations. It is reliable and so is the OT, which God has also preserved.
That said, within these NT scriptures, there are some 96 allusions and references to Genesis chapters 1-11 ( which you claim is myth). Jesus himself made references to our origins in Genesis. So what you are inderectly claiming, is that the the New Testament and (quotes from Jesus and the Apostles) include myth as well. Were they deceived too?
Here is an incomplete list of NT allusions and refernces to Genesis 1-11 ... and there are more:

1. Matthew 1:1–3 Ancestors of Jesus
2. Matthew 2:18 Rachel
3. Matthew 3:8–9 Abraham’s children
4. Matthew 10:15 Sodom and Gomorrah
5. Matthew11:23-24 Sodom
6. Matthew 19:4 Quote from Gen 1:27
7. Matthew 19:5 Quote from Gen 2:24
8. Matthew 22:21 Man in the image of God
9. Matthew 22:31–2 God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
10. Matthew 23:35
Righteous Abel
11. Matthew 24:37–39 Days of Noah
12. Matthew 26:52 Those who draw the sword will die by the sword
13. Mark 10:6 Quote from Gen 1:27
14. Mark 10:7 Quote from Gen 2:24
15. Mark 12:17 Man in the image of God
16. Mark 12:26 God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
17. Mark 13:19
God created the world
18. Luke 1:25 Elizabeth’s reproach is taken away like Rachel’s
19. Luke 1:48 Mary will be called blessed like Leah
20. Luke 1:55 Abraham and his descendents
21. Luke 1:73 God’s oath to Abraham
22. Luke 3:8 Children of Abraham
23. Luke 3:29–37Jesus is descendent of Adam
24. Luke 10:12 Sodom
25. Luke 10:19 Treading on serpents
26. Luke 11:51 Abel the first slain prophet
27. Luke 13:16 Daughter of Abraham
28. Luke 16:22-31 Abraham
29. Luke 17:26–27 Days of Noah
30. Luke 17:28–29 Days of Lot
31. Luke 17:32 Lot’s wife
32. Luke 20:25 Man in the image of God
33. Luke 20:37 God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
34. John 1:1–3 God pre-existed and created
35. John 1:51 Reference to Jacob’s ladder
36. John 4:5–6, 11–12Jacob’s well
37. John 7:22 Circumcision came from the patriarchs
38. John 8:33 Jews are Abraham’s descendents
39. John 8:44 The devil a liar and murderer
40. Acts 7:2–14 History of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph
41. Acts 14:15 God made heaven and earth and everything in them
42. Acts 15:20, 29 Possible reference to Noahic covenant
43. Acts 17:24
God made the earth and everything in it
44. Acts 17:26 All nations descended from one man
45. Romans 1:19–20
God’s power revealed through creation
46. Romans 4:1–25 Abraham justified by faith
47. Romans 5:12–21 Death came because of Adam’s sin
48. Romans 8:20–23 The entire creation was cursed
49. Romans 9:7–13 God chose Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
50. Romans 15:8 Christ fulfills promises made to patriarchs
51. Romans 16:20 Satan crushed under believers’ feet
52. 1 Corinthians 6:16 Quote of Gen 2:24
53. 1 Corinthians 11:7–8 Man in the image of God, and woman created after man
54. 1 Corinthians 15:21–22 Death comes through Adam
55. 1 Corinthians 15:38
Each kind of seed has its own body
56. 1 Corinthians 15:45 Quote of Gen 2:7
57. 1 Corinthians 15:47 First man made from dust
58. 2 Corinthians 4:6 Quote of Gen 1:3
59. 2 Corinthians 11:3 Eve was deceived
60. Galatians 3:6 Quote of Gen 15:6
61. Galatians 3:8 Gen 12:3; 18:18; 22:18
62. Galatians 3:16 Gen 12:7; 13:15; 24:7
63. Galatians 4:4 Seed of the woman
64. Galatians 4:22–30 Abraham’s two sons
65. Ephesians 3:9 God created all things
66. Ephesians 5:31 Quote of Gen 2:24
67. Colossians 1:16 All things were created by the Son
68. Colossians 3:10 Image of the Creator
69. 1 Timothy 2:13–14 Man created first
70. 1 Timothy 2:14 Woman deceived
71. 1 Timothy 4:3–5 God created everything good
72. Hebrews 1:10 God created heaven and earth
73. Hebrews 4:3–4 Quote of Gen 2:2
74. Hebrews 4:10 God rested
75. Hebrews 5:1–10 Order of Melchizedek
76. Hebrews 6:13–14 Genesis 22:17
77. Hebrews 6:20–7:17 Order of Melchizedek
78. Hebrews 11:3 Universe formed by God’s command
79. Hebrews 11:4 Abel’s acceptable sacrifice
80. Hebrews 11:5 Enoch taken away
81. Hebrews 11:7 Noah’s ark
82. Hebrews 11:8-12 Abraham
83. Hebrews 11:17–22 Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac and Abraham’s descendants
84. Hebrews 12:16–17 Godless Esau
85. Hebrews 12:24 Blood of Abel
86. James 2:21–23 Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac
87. 1 Peter 3:6 Sarah submitted to Abraham
88. 1 Peter 3:20 8 saved in the ark
89. 2 Peter 2:4–5 God punished sinning angels and saved Noah
90. 2 Peter 2:6–8 Sodom and Gomorrah punished and Lot saved
91. 2 Peter 3:5–6 Earth formed out of and destroyed by water
92. 1 John 3:11–12 Cain killed Abel
93. Jude 6 Disobedient angels punished (reference to “sons of God”?)
94. Jude 7. Sodom and Gomorrah
95. Jude 11 Cain
96. Jude 14 Enoch the seventh from Adam

By claiming Genesis is myth, you are irresponsibly and indirectly claiming that the New Testament is riddled with myth. So how can you be confident in your faith? Oh, that's right you said you are a "progressive" Christian. What does that mean? That you are a Progressive Democrat too, behind the Global Warming hoax and New World Order socialist Utopia, and various liberal agendas?

 

[marks]

The comparison makes no sense.
It’s more like this.

you have an ancient text from a culture that is mostly gone that speaks a language you don’t know, translated from over 5,000 manuscripts to convey ideas that you have to covert into modern ones to make sense of. I don’t even have the patience to go further into this convo to be honest. It’s not worth my time.
This post is for Christian’s who realize evolution is probably true and want to learn more about it. A good forum for this is here.

The BioLogos Forum

Predating on a Christian forum.

At least you admit it, God will deal with you.

 

[marks]

We believe the Bible (composed of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, 1 Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phillippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude and Revelation) is the inspired and infallible Word of God to all men and women. It was composed by human authors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the primary source for Christian beliefs, practices, and doctrines. (Psalm 12:6, Psalm 119:105, Psalm 119:160, Proverbs 30:5, II Timothy 1:13, II Timothy 3:16-17, II Peter 1:20-21)

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

 

[Angelina]

Imo evolution is a theory created by man who do not want to believe that God is real and he created all living things by his word.
If he were real (and he is real) unrejuvenated man becomes accountable for their sins.

 

[Skovand1075]

Imo evolution is a theory created by man who do not want to believe that God is real and he created all living things by his word.
If he were real (and he is real) unrejuvenated man becomes accountable for their sins.

Belief in evolution has nothing to do with belief in God. Hence, roughly 1/3rd of American scientists who accept evolution are also Christians.

 

[Skovand1075]

We do have over 5300 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament that confirm the reliability of the Bible. Fragments date back from 20-30 years after Jesus death and resurrection and complete copies from 325 AD. The Dead scrolls contain fragments and even a completw copy of Isaiah dating back to 150 BC, which is a thousand years older than amy copy we had prior to 1947.
With only 400 Greek words in question ( that don't effect any doctrine btw), so we can confidently claim that the New Testament has been 99.99% accurately passed down through the generations. It is reliable and so is the OT, which God has also preserved.
That said, within these NT scriptures, there are some 96 allusions and references to Genesis chapters 1-11 ( which you claim is myth. Jesus himself made references. So what yiu are inderecrly claiming that the the New Testament and quites from Jesus and the Apostles include myth as well. Were they deceived too?
Here is an incomplete list of NT allusions and refernces to Genesis 1-11 ... and there are more:

1. Matthew 1:1–3 Ancestors of Jesus
2. Matthew 2:18 Rachel
3. Matthew 3:8–9 Abraham’s children
4. Matthew 10:15 Sodom and Gomorrah
5. Matthew11:23-24 Sodom
6. Matthew 19:4 Quote from Gen 1:27
7. Matthew 19:5 Quote from Gen 2:24
8. Matthew 22:21 Man in the image of God
9. Matthew 22:31–2 God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
10. Matthew 23:35
Righteous Abel
11. Matthew 24:37–39 Days of Noah
12. Matthew 26:52 Those who draw the sword will die by the sword
13. Mark 10:6 Quote from Gen 1:27
14. Mark 10:7 Quote from Gen 2:24
15. Mark 12:17 Man in the image of God
16. Mark 12:26 God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
17. Mark 13:19
God created the world
18. Luke 1:25 Elizabeth’s reproach is taken away like Rachel’s
19. Luke 1:48 Mary will be called blessed like Leah
20. Luke 1:55 Abraham and his descendents
21. Luke 1:73 God’s oath to Abraham
22. Luke 3:8 Children of Abraham
23. Luke 3:29–37Jesus is descendent of Adam
24. Luke 10:12 Sodom
25. Luke 10:19 Treading on serpents
26. Luke 11:51 Abel the first slain prophet
27. Luke 13:16 Daughter of Abraham
28. Luke 16:22-31 Abraham
29. Luke 17:26–27 Days of Noah
30. Luke 17:28–29 Days of Lot
31. Luke 17:32 Lot’s wife
32. Luke 20:25 Man in the image of God
33. Luke 20:37 God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
34. John 1:1–3 God pre-existed and created
35. John 1:51 Reference to Jacob’s ladder
36. John 4:5–6, 11–12Jacob’s well
37. John 7:22 Circumcision came from the patriarchs
38. John 8:33 Jews are Abraham’s descendents
39. John 8:44 The devil a liar and murderer
40. Acts 7:2–14 History of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph
41. Acts 14:15 God made heaven and earth and everything in them
42. Acts 15:20, 29 Possible reference to Noahic covenant
43. Acts 17:24
God made the earth and everything in it
44. Acts 17:26 All nations descended from one man
45. Romans 1:19–20
God’s power revealed through creation
46. Romans 4:1–25 Abraham justified by faith
47. Romans 5:12–21 Death came because of Adam’s sin
48. Romans 8:20–23 The entire creation was cursed
49. Romans 9:7–13 God chose Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
50. Romans 15:8 Christ fulfills promises made to patriarchs
51. Romans 16:20 Satan crushed under believers’ feet
52. 1 Corinthians 6:16 Quote of Gen 2:24
53. 1 Corinthians 11:7–8 Man in the image of God, and woman created after man
54. 1 Corinthians 15:21–22 Death comes through Adam
55. 1 Corinthians 15:38
Each kind of seed has its own body
56. 1 Corinthians 15:45 Quote of Gen 2:7
57. 1 Corinthians 15:47 First man made from dust
58. 2 Corinthians 4:6 Quote of Gen 1:3
59. 2 Corinthians 11:3 Eve was deceived
60. Galatians 3:6 Quote of Gen 15:6
61. Galatians 3:8 Gen 12:3; 18:18; 22:18
62. Galatians 3:16 Gen 12:7; 13:15; 24:7
63. Galatians 4:4 Seed of the woman
64. Galatians 4:22–30 Abraham’s two sons
65. Ephesians 3:9 God created all things
66. Ephesians 5:31 Quote of Gen 2:24
67. Colossians 1:16 All things were created by the Son
68. Colossians 3:10 Image of the Creator
69. 1 Timothy 2:13–14 Man created first
70. 1 Timothy 2:14 Woman deceived
71. 1 Timothy 4:3–5 God created everything good
72. Hebrews 1:10 God created heaven and earth
73. Hebrews 4:3–4 Quote of Gen 2:2
74. Hebrews 4:10 God rested
75. Hebrews 5:1–10 Order of Melchizedek
76. Hebrews 6:13–14 Genesis 22:17
77. Hebrews 6:20–7:17 Order of Melchizedek
78. Hebrews 11:3 Universe formed by God’s command
79. Hebrews 11:4 Abel’s acceptable sacrifice
80. Hebrews 11:5 Enoch taken away
81. Hebrews 11:7 Noah’s ark
82. Hebrews 11:8-12 Abraham
83. Hebrews 11:17–22 Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac and Abraham’s descendants
84. Hebrews 12:16–17 Godless Esau
85. Hebrews 12:24 Blood of Abel
86. James 2:21–23 Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac
87. 1 Peter 3:6 Sarah submitted to Abraham
88. 1 Peter 3:20 8 saved in the ark
89. 2 Peter 2:4–5 God punished sinning angels and saved Noah
90. 2 Peter 2:6–8 Sodom and Gomorrah punished and Lot saved
91. 2 Peter 3:5–6 Earth formed out of and destroyed by water
92. 1 John 3:11–12 Cain killed Abel
93. Jude 6 Disobedient angels punished (reference to “sons of God”?)
94. Jude 7. Sodom and Gomorrah
95. Jude 11 Cain
96. Jude 14 Enoch the seventh from Adam

By claiming Genesis is myth, you are irresponsibly and indirectly claiming that the New Testament is riddled with myth as well.

this issue was addressed a few times. Hyperlinking back to a original story does not change its genre. When I say someone is as strong as Hercules, im not suggesting Hercules was real.

 

[Skovand1075]

Although the majority of people responding to this post clearly did not read it very well I am glad nonetheless. Between 4-5 posts here and 10 posts on other forums about 60 high school and college students have reached out to me on the BL Forum and through my email there wanting help on then working through accepting evolution as a Christian. Praise God to helping deliver these young adults from darkness.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

this issue was addressed a few times. Hyperlinking back to a original story does not change its genre. When I say someone is as strong as Hercules, im not suggesting Hercules was real.

You'd be talking about myth, concerning Hercules, not truth. Your "progressive", liberal approach to the Bible is irresponsibly reckless. I do believe one can have a faith in Christ without qualifying it with an accurate understanding of our origins. Heck, you can read the New Testament only and believe in Jesus. As a matter of fact, I couldn't accept many of the stories in the OT, so I started with the NT and believed. After years, I reasoned that if the OT was not disputed by Jesus or any of the Apostles, it was okay by me. But as usual with the TOE buffs, Creationists eventually realize that this wall between us is impenetrable and so we must agree to disagree.

 

[Skovand1075]

They did not need to dispute it because they understood it was a myth. It’s only modern people who don’t understand ancient Jewish literature that struggle with it.

 

[Dropship]

Some 20(?) years ago Dawkins was giving an evolution lecture to schoolkids aged around 15 in one of the TV "Royal Institution Christmas Lectures" and I tuned in out of interest but quickly got bored with his silliness. But the gratifying thing was that judging by their body language most of the kids were bored out of their skulls too..

 

[Skovand1075]

Some 20(?) years ago Dawkins was giving an evolution lecture to schoolkids aged around 15 in one of the TV "Royal Institution Christmas Lectures" and I tuned in out of interest but quickly got bored with his silliness. But the gratifying thing was that judging by their body language most of the kids were bored out of their skulls too..

Perhaps. But the good thing is that now days the overwhelming majority , including kids in elementary school, are already accepting it. They are taught it throughout their whole life. I’m sure you’ve noticed the growing trend. But there are still many who are raised by people who lack the qualifications to teach science accurately and so those kids are taught a false narrative. It’s those kids who later on end up being the ones me and other progressive Christians are able to reach out and help.

 

[Angelina]

Belief in evolution has nothing to do with belief in God. Hence, roughly 1/3rd of American scientists who accept evolution are also Christians.

I cannot see how evolution and christianity meet. It's like saying you're a new age christian [spiritualist and a christian] or a gay christian. You either believe mankind evolved from apes or you believe we were created by God. There is no middle ground.

 

[Heart2Soul]

This post is not about debating with those who don’t believe it. Plenty of forums out there. This is a place for those , typically just in college, that is feeling conflicted.

It's impossible to even consider evolving from one species to the another if you believe what the Bible says.
Having said that, I am curious how metamorphosis is viewed. For example, a caterpillar morphing into a butterfly. Is this evolution or stages of development?

 

[Skovand1075]

I cannot see how evolution and christianity meet. It's like saying you're a new age christian [spiritualist and a christian] or a gay christian. You either believe mankind evolved from apes or you believe we were created by God. There is no middle ground.

that’s perfectly fine. This post was not be for you. Luckily, most people don’t see it that way. Out of the whole world, there are very few sects of people who feel that way. Who im after are those innocent young people being harmed by those fanatics because they , even at their young age, just realize something is wrong. Call it the Holy Spirit perhaps. So they reach out with questions and people like me seek them out to help them have a healthier , better and more educated understanding of science and faith.

it’s why Biologos is such a popular organization. See the driving force of atheism are these hateful backwards people that believe you must interpret the Bible the way they do or you’re going to hell and being tortured forever and ever. But they meet us and realize that the bulk of scholarship, the bulk of people who belong to Christian academics have a different interpretation. So we walk them through what they were and were not taught. He bring them back from angry agnosticism to cheerful Christianity. It’s one of the greatest blessing in my life from god. Knowing I have helped tons of young adults find their way out of a toxic faith and moved into one more focused on Christ.

 

[Skovand1075]

It's impossible to even consider evolving from one species to the another if you believe what the Bible says.
Having said that, I am curious how metamorphosis is viewed. For example, a caterpillar morphing into a butterfly. Is this evolution or stages of development?

Why is it impossible to believe that a Christian can’t listen to the bulk of the Christian professors and interpret the genesis 1-11 using contextual analysis to understand the myth making used in accommodation to share theological truths with ancient Jews?

why should we interpret the Bible the way the alt right conservatives understand the Bible as this book that denies basic science and promotes hatred through hellfire preaching?

metamorphosis is evolution.
Episode 81 – Metamorphosis

 

[Skovand1075]

So a caterpillar does not evolve into a butterfly. They go through metamorphosis into a butterfly. But metamorphosis itself is a byproduct of evolution. Same as a seed does not evolve tree. They germinate. But the process of germination is a byproduct of evolution.

 

[marks]

Imo evolution is a theory created by man who do not want to believe that God is real and he created all living things by his word.
If he were real (and he is real) unrejuvenated man becomes accountable for their sins.

I think that's pretty clear.

I think that faith in evolution is popular because it gives an alternative view from Earth's cataclysmic past. People want to deny that God will judge us, and therefore deny that God judged the world in the past, and therefore deny the flood.

Then they have to explain what we find on the earth, a planet wrecked by a global flood, billions of creatures killed and buried in the debris. So they answer exactly like Peter described, that "all things continue as from the beginning of creation". Uniformitarianism.

Evolution provides the "alternate theory" to God's judgment in the past, which warns of God's coming judgment.

Believing in evolution is foolishness in the Biblical sense, because it denies what God wants us to know so that we will turn to Him and be saved. If we deny that, it's to our own destruction, and that is the Biblical definition of the fool, the one who denies God to their own hurt.

Much love!