So you took offense, hey?
Yes, and I intend to set the record straight with your New Age "sin nature" thinking. It's kind of obvious that's a lot of what has you confused about what God's Word really teaches, since it appears you might be listening to later Bible translations associated with the New Age doctrines that came out of the Alexandrian school in Egypt (from Wescott and Hort's manuscript translation).
I suppose for some that does work better than trying to understand.
I never have claimed to know everything, as no man does. But I do understand the modern New Age influences better than you might think.
I compliment this statement: "I never read anywhere in my Bible about some so-called New Age "sin nature". It speaks of sin, by both men and angels."
Later Bible translations from the Alexandrian manuscripts, like the NIV, is where a lot of the modern "sin nature" ideas originate among Christ's Church today. The Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt was subjected to influence of Neo-Platonist type doctrine (among those like Origen). That's where the Alexandrian manuscripts which Wescott and Hort translated in the 1880's originate from, Alexandria, Egypt.
I agree, and i only use the phrase sin nature to appease those that do that I might help them see that there is nothing mystical. It is the product of man's spirit serving self to obsession so that man's spirit ignores being lead and taught of God, even preferring to serve the flesh rather than being taught of God. And is the same for angels.
The idea Paul taught is about the 'flesh' vs. 'spirit', not the idea of "sin nature" vs. 'spirit'. In John 3 Christ also made a direct comparison between flesh and spirit. Since angels have also sinned, and are not born flesh, some have wrongly deduced that the flesh component has no actual bearing upon the act of sin for those born in the flesh.
The fact that the angels ("sons of God") in Gen.6 sinned involving flesh, and Jude 1 tells us they "went after strange flesh", that reveals even their sin... involved a coveting of the flesh. So if the sin of the angels was only because of some supposed "sin nature" in their spirit, (since the angels are not in flesh), that should help them grasp how the majority of our sin is caused by flesh also.
A direct revelation by Apostle Paul...
Rom 6:6-7
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(KJV)
Those in Christ Jesus are to 'account' their "body of sin" as being already crucified and dead through His death. What kind of body is Paul speaking of? Our flesh body, for he that is dead is freed from sin directly points to our flesh as a main causer of sin.
I like what Insight pointed out to me on another thread. Insight referred to where Jesus said basically that none are good but God and that is true whether man or angel.
Isa 64:5-6
5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember Thee in Thy ways: behold, Thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
(KJV)
Once again, a clear revelation by Apostle Paul of the battle between 'flesh' and 'spirit'...
Rom 8:7-10
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(KJV)
Again, just what "body" is that? Our flesh body. There's your "sin nature", plain and simple. Phrases like "sin nature", 'human nature', etc., are popular with later Humanist Bible translations (Iike the NIV), because it's a term that leaves room for glorifying the 'flesh'.
You see veteran that is true and will always be true. God is our righteousness. We have none of our own righteousness but that it would separate us from God as the Pharisees at Romans 10: 1-3. Even Christ clothes himself in God's righteousness. Christ does so perfectly. Christ is that "righteousness of God" Romans 10: 3 concludes with as verse 4 then reinforces. That then forms our example. And that is why Jesus is Hebrews 12:2 ... the author and finisher of our faith ..."
Big difference between Christ Jesus and us. He is God; we are not. Only God could come in the flesh and be without sin. That's why He only is The Saviour, and we are not our own saviour.
But the New Age doctrines, which are from the ancient occultic schools of arcana, do look at our flesh state as having the ability to become 'perfect' without sin, just like Christ while He walked in the flesh upon this earth. They even have a modern term for it, called "Christ Consciousness". That New Age idealism about perfection in the flesh is not written in God's Word, as shown by Scripture I posted like the above. So when I declare per God's Word that NONE can be perfect in the flesh, and will continue to sin until released from the flesh, that naturally goes against those trained to believe the occultic lie of being able to 'attain' to perfection in the flesh, which is also the false idea that we can become our own Christ and do what He did in the flesh.
I will squeal on myself here so that you understand better from where I am speaking. I did not even tell Insight this in that thread where he said that. So consider yourself privileged. I would not confess to you unless i saw good in you and felt you worth sacrificing my own dignity. (Not that I did not see Insight as worthy of the same or even of more should it have be needed.)
I have been running around teaching a false doctrine myself. That came to light to me amidst my conversations with Insight. I have been teaching that one day we will grow and be able to stand on the merits of our own righteousness. Now that I have learned from Insight's wisdom in this area (he serving as God's light to me concerning this) I fear that such a day would ever come. I know I was wrong. I was wrong. I was wrong. I was wrong. And ever so happy to now see that. I regret those i may have made it a bit more difficult for by what i was believing and teaching. But i have absolute faith that Yahweh is fully capable of using even my feebleness for the better of those that love Him.
I will stop there as I need to find out if you will receive what I am saying gracefully. Else I am just spinning my wheels.
If you have civil questions, ask.
We all make mistakes, and we all will continue to make mistakes, until Christ is revealed to all the world at His second coming. But if you speak of ideas like we can stand on our own merits of righteousness involving the law, then I well understand the difference between the Old and New Covenants. But don't forget, our works in Christ follow us to Heaven per Rev.14. So works are important for those in Christ Jesus, as they reveal one's Faith on Him.
But all that is not really the subject here, because Apostle John defined sin as the transgression of the law. The fact that we all were concluded in sin, and that our flesh carnal mind cannot please God because of being in a body of sin, reveals why we cannot be perfect in following God's law, which that law Paul said is spiritual (per Rom.7). This is to show us just how much we each need The Saviour Jesus Christ.
