John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Kermos]

@Aunty Jane @Rich R @APAK @tigger 2 @JohnPaul @Keiw @True Faith

Jesus being God is consistent Apostolic testimony.

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The Apostle Jesus (Hebrews 3:1) calls Jesus the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) by saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20) thus declaring Himself eternal, and the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is exclusively eternal; therefore, Jesus declares Himself the One True God, YHWH!

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony.

 

[Behold]

You are absolutely correct on that, but aren't you also going to bow your knee to him

I already bow my knees to the Lord Jesus.
I have the marks on my knees to prove it.

 

[theefaith]

Ex 20:3-5
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lordthy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Only God may be worshipped!


Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Matthew 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

John 9:38
And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Matt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Either Jesus is God or a blasphemer and false prophet for allowing himself to be worshipped!

 

[theefaith]

Well it's important that God is the Father only theefaith so as to point out to us that his Spirit is different from his Son. And that the Son's spirit is so intertwined or embraces by his Father, so close and joined to his Father that he knows him, his word, intent, and purpose and plans. Therefore the Son is fully qualified to reveal him and share his will to and with us.

Is Jesus Lord?

 

[theefaith]

Actually I'm not stuck in any Mosaic 'Old' Testament. I believe I as you, through the good graces of God the Father in his Son. The Old Covenant practitioners never really did believe in salvation through faith in Christ. Only a few were exceptions.

You know the basis for Christ's arrival in this world was presented in the OT and we should know the OT and its scripture clearly. It gives us a beneficial wider view as to why and how grace came to us and why God's Son was born and died for our benefit.

but not faith alone! Right?

Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

 

[APAK]

Is Jesus Lord?

Jesus is most definitely our lord although the context you have in mind could be quite different from mine. Let me help out a bit with my context. My lord is lord over me, and my lord is also subordinate to his Father, YHWH(the LORD of all Lords).

 

[APAK]

but not faith alone! Right?

Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

I really don't seem to have any issue with the 'seal' of the Spirit upon a believer although I'm sure we differ in the baptismal part, and what is means and when it come into our spirit to rejuvenate and stay with us for life.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus is most definitely our lord although the context you have in mind could be quite different from mine. Let me help out a bit with my context. My lord is lord over me, and my lord is also subordinate to his Father, YHWH(the LORD of all Lords).

deut 6:4 say there is one Lord so for Jesus to be Lord he must be God

 

[theefaith]

I really don't seem to have any issue with the 'seal' of the Spirit upon a believer although I'm sure we differ in the baptismal part, and what is means and when it come into our spirit to rejuvenate and stay with us for life.

what does quickened mean? Eph 2:1 & 2:5

 

[APAK]

deut 6:4 say there is one Lord so for Jesus to be Lord he must be God

theefaith, there are a few problems as I see it with your statement.

(Deu 6:4) Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one; (NEV)

So there is not Lord not even LORD in this verse. It is YHWH because he is the LORD of all. And Jesus is never mention as LORD in scripture. If we are going to discriminate with all caps, Capitalized 'L' and lowercase ''l we need to be consistent and do not change them for our own convenience and narrative support.

And YHWH is the only God and he is ALWAYS singular in meaning. You may think he can be more than one being when YHWH is translated as the 'plural' Elohim word, although this is Hebrew terminology and source, not of English origin, thank God! It means to emphasize the unique grand majesty of YHWH, his dominance and magnificence. And 99.99 % of the time this word Elohim is used with a 'singular' verb. Quite telling don't you think?

And finally in Deut 6:4b, YHWH is one, cardinal number one, on spirit, one being, alone, and no one else besides him even his son is subordinate to him. That what scripture clearly states and yet many will want to keep fiddling with who our is how Father fro some reason....

 

[APAK]

what does quickened mean? Eph 2:1 & 2:5

As the 1st Adam was of the earth and his spirit 'died' by God and was not quickened, the 2nd Adam also died, by man, and his spirit quickened, back to life, by God. He was a quickened spirit by God's Spirit.

We also have been quickened from a dead sinful spirit to life by the Father's Spirit WITH Yahshua the Christ.

(Eph 2:5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved!),(NEV)

 

[APAK]

@Aunty Jane @Rich R @APAK @tigger 2 @JohnPaul @Keiw @True Faith

Jesus being God is consistent Apostolic testimony.

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The Apostle Jesus (Hebrews 3:1) calls Jesus the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) by saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20) thus declaring Himself eternal, and the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is exclusively eternal; therefore, Jesus declares Himself the One True God, YHWH!

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony.

No scripture says that Jesus was NOT created either Kermos.

In fact scripture speaks of his creation from his heavenly Father's Spirit as the angel proclaimed to Mary. And to me conception/begotten and birth means creation and not some bizarre incredible process of another god-person injecting himself as a male sperm into a woman's egg to form a ridiculous god-man human divine person-being.

 

[Wrangler]

And 99.99 % of the time this word Elohim is used with a 'singular' verb.

Trinitarians be like:

So, you ADMIT Elohim is plural! This proves the trinity. <Mic drop>​

 

[Wrangler]

No scripture says that Jesus was NOT created either Kermos.

Scripture certainly Jesus was a created being for he is repeatedly called the son of God. By definition, son's are created beings.

Trinitarians appeal to mystical dualism. Invoke a capitalization, Son, which they say means he is not a created being. If he were not a created being, a word other than son would be used. It's really that simple.

It is said that God does not lie. So, one would have to ask why would God use a word to define his Anointed that he means the opposite of what that word means?

And that brings us to the title of God's suffering servant. In Hebrew, it is Messiah. In Greek, it is Christ. It does not mean 'God incarnate' but Anointed. Who is God's suffering servant Anointed by? God, in his unitarian nature, Anointed his suffering servant as the End Game explains in 1 COR 15:23-28.

 

[Rich R]

I already bow my knees to the Lord Jesus.
I have the marks on my knees to prove it.

A lot better than the mark of the Beast!

 

[APAK]

Trinitarians be like:

So, you ADMIT Elohim is plural! This proves the trinity. <Mic drop>​

And of course as I said before and now here from another common source:

Elohim - Wikipedia
Elohim (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים, romanized: ʾĔlōhīm: [(ʔ)eloˈ(h)im]), the plural of אֱלוֹהַּ‎ (ʾĔlōah), is a Hebrew word meaning "gods". Although the word is plural, in the Hebrew Bible it usually takes a singular verb and refers to a single deity,.....

In Hebrew, the ending -im normally indicates a masculine plural. However, when referring to the Jewish God, Elohim is usually understood to be grammatically singular (i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective).[6][13] In Modern Hebrew, it is often referred to in the singular despite the -im ending that denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew.[

 

[Rich R]

Being wrongly accused of non-thought all the while your lack of evidence of non-thought - it's all very telling about you because you wickedly think there are impossible things for God, yet Jesus declares all things are possible with God (Matthew 19:26) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] in post #636 in this thread).

I know what you are saying, but technically there are some things God cannot do.

Titus 1:2,

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
​

There's at least one thing that is impossible with God. There are others, such as:

1. God cannot break His promises (Ps 89:34),
   
2. God cannot forsake us (Heb 13:5)
3. God cannot forget us (Is 49:15)

As always, there is a contest when Jesus said all things are possible with God. He was talking about getting born again.

 

[theefaith]

theefaith, there are a few problems as I see it with your statement.

(Deu 6:4) Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one; (NEV)

So there is not Lord not even LORD in this verse. It is YHWH because he is the LORD of all. And Jesus is never mention as LORD in scripture. If we are going to discriminate with all caps, Capitalized 'L' and lowercase ''l we need to be consistent and do not change them for our own convenience and narrative support.

And YHWH is the only God and he is ALWAYS singular in meaning. You may think he can be more than one being when YHWH is translated as the 'plural' Elohim word, although this is Hebrew terminology and source, not of English origin, thank God! It means to emphasize the unique grand majesty of YHWH, his dominance and magnificence. And 99.99 % of the time this word Elohim is used with a 'singular' verb. Quite telling don't you think?

And finally in Deut 6:4b, YHWH is one, cardinal number one, on spirit, one being, alone, and no one else besides him even his son is subordinate to him. That what scripture clearly states and yet many will want to keep fiddling with who our is how Father fro some reason....

Deuteronomy 6:4
King James Version

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

[Wrangler]

I know what you are saying, but technically there are some things God cannot do.

Titus 1:2,

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
​

There's at least one thing that is impossible with God. There are others, such as:

1. God cannot break His promises (Ps 89:34),
   
2. God cannot forsake us (Heb 13:5)
3. God cannot forget us (Is 49:15)

As always, there is a contest when Jesus said all things are possible with God. He was talking about getting born again.

Jesus saying all things are possible with God is figurative as you explained. Trinitarians are forced to resort this expression means jettisoning the constraints of logic.

 

[theefaith]

As the 1st Adam was of the earth and his spirit 'died' by God and was not quickened, the 2nd Adam also died, by man, and his spirit quickened, back to life, by God. He was a quickened spirit by God's Spirit.

We also have been quickened from a dead sinful spirit to life by the Father's Spirit WITH Yahshua the Christ.

(Eph 2:5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved!),(NEV)

how are we brought to life?