True liberty can come only in Christ

[RichardBurger]

True liberty can come only in Christ. Only when we realize that we are SECURE in Him can we cease from our own works and rest in His work on the cross. This gives us a position of complete peace with God.

Heb 3:11-12 (NKJ)
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of ""unbelief"" in departing from the living God;

Heb 4:1-3 (NKJ)
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
(NOTE:) 3 For we who have believed ""do enter that rest,"" as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:9-11 (NKJ)
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Note verse 10
10 For he who """"has""" entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (unbelief = disobedience, see Heb 3:11-12 and Heb. 4:2,3)

We enter His rest and cease from our own works when we believe in Him (have faith, trust, confidence, and hope in His work on the cross), and not in our own works. To be disobedient is to NOT believe in what God has done on the cross, and instead, believe that you can be saved by what you do.

This is how I see it.

Richard Burger

 

[Episkopos]

True liberty can come only in Christ. Only when we realize that we are SECURE in Him can we cease from our own works and rest in His work on the cross. This gives us a position of complete peace with God.

Heb 3:11-12 (NKJ)
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of ""unbelief"" in departing from the living God;

Heb 4:1-3 (NKJ)
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
(NOTE:) 3 For we who have believed ""do enter that rest,"" as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:9-11 (NKJ)
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Note verse 10
10 For he who """"has""" entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (unbelief = disobedience, see Heb 3:11-12 and Heb. 4:2,3)

We enter His rest and cease from our own works when we believe in Him (have faith, trust, confidence, and hope in His work on the cross), and not in our own works. To be disobedient is to NOT believe in what God has done on the cross, and instead, believe that you can be saved by what you do.

This is how I see it.

Richard Burger

We don't rest in His work on the cross...we rest in the Lord and experience the cross ourselves so that He works through us. Doing nothing is just that...doing nothing.

We need to be DOERS of the word and not only HEARERS, deceiving only ourselves (and whoever is foolish enough to listen)

 

[RichardBurger]

We don't rest in His work on the cross...we rest in the Lord and experience the cross ourselves so that He works through us. Doing nothing is just that...doing nothing.

We need to be DOERS of the word and not only HEARERS, deceiving only ourselves (and whoever is foolish enough to listen)

I am truely sorry that you do not rest in the the finished works of God on the cross. Those that preach works of the flesh can not rest because they are disobedient to the gospel of grace.

 

[Episkopos]

I am truely sorry that you do not rest in the the finished works of God on the cross. Those that preach works of the flesh can not rest because they are disobedient to the gospel of grace.

Those who mock the power of Christ are condemned in their sins.

In spite of the fact that you are just a mocker of the truth I will ask (for the sake of others)...what do you make of this verse...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


Without mocking WHAT DOES JOHN MEAN HERE?

Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[prism]

I don't think some understand that our 'work' 'work' 'work' that is acceptable before God must first proceed from our 'rest' 'rest' 'rest' in Him, otherwise it gives room for the works works works of the flesh e.g. boasting how well we have endure and fought and stood etc.

 

[aspen]

It really seems basic to me - if you are prideful about your accomplishments, knowledge, prestige, and treat people as inferior to you on the job and in your family and friendships - you will probably do in your spiritual life.

Are you competitive in your relationship with others? Do you enjoy telling people how do things the right way? Do you scoff and mock people who do no agree with you? Do you enjoy watching people get what they deserve? Are the poor in their condition because they deserve it? Is you success due to your hard work?

The fact is, if you are really into controlling your environment and others; believe in a Just World view - you are at risk of taking a works approach towards your faith and salvation.

Humility is necessary for a saving relationship with Christ - all that control you think you have is vanity. Give it up to God - retire the Old Man and become born again as a trusting child - relying on Christ.

 

[jiggyfly]

True liberty can come only in Christ. Only when we realize that we are SECURE in Him can we cease from our own works and rest in His work on the cross. This gives us a position of complete peace with God.

Heb 3:11-12 (NKJ)
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of ""unbelief"" in departing from the living God;

Heb 4:1-3 (NKJ)
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
(NOTE:) 3 For we who have believed ""do enter that rest,"" as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:9-11 (NKJ)
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Note verse 10
10 For he who """"has""" entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (unbelief = disobedience, see Heb 3:11-12 and Heb. 4:2,3)

We enter His rest and cease from our own works when we believe in Him (have faith, trust, confidence, and hope in His work on the cross), and not in our own works. To be disobedient is to NOT believe in what God has done on the cross, and instead, believe that you can be saved by what you do.

This is how I see it.

Richard Burger

Good post Richard, nicely laid out too.

 

[Prentis]

True liberty can come only in Christ. Only when we realize that we are SECURE in Him can we cease from our own works and rest in His work on the cross. This gives us a position of complete peace with God.

Heb 3:11-12 (NKJ)
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of ""unbelief"" in departing from the living God;

Heb 4:1-3 (NKJ)
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
(NOTE:) 3 For we who have believed ""do enter that rest,"" as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:9-11 (NKJ)
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Note verse 10
10 For he who """"has""" entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (unbelief = disobedience, see Heb 3:11-12 and Heb. 4:2,3)

We enter His rest and cease from our own works when we believe in Him (have faith, trust, confidence, and hope in His work on the cross), and not in our own works. To be disobedient is to NOT believe in what God has done on the cross, and instead, believe that you can be saved by what you do.

This is how I see it.

Richard Burger

This is a terrible post! Twisting the words of Paul to make the meaning that 'God did it for me, now I don't have to do anything!'

God did what you could NOT do for you, that he might empower you to do everything just as he does by a new nature. What the old nature could not do, be as he is, the new can. This is a perfect example of an anti-gospel that preaches that it is good to live your whole life in the wilderness...As a matter of fact, you can't do anything else, it's impossible to take the promised land!

This is formed in unbelief, and is counter to the type of faith God is seeking for. Many nod when we say 'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me'... But this nodding reveals itself to be a product of indoctrination rather than faith, because when the same person is asked 'can you walk as he walked' or 'can you overcome sin' they answer 'of course not! that's impossible!'

What God hates, the unbelief that says 'No, you cannot take the promised land', we have come to call good, 'resting from your works'. What God loves, faith that moves mountains, we call works or self-righteousness.

 

[prism]

A cup of bad coffee Prentis?

 

[aspen]

Yeah, Pentis? I am Catholic and I am beginning to think you are leaning to heavily on works.....seriously.

I agree that our involvement is necessary in our relationship with Christ, but that involvement is sort of like a young child using their parent's resources to purchase a gift for them. The parents do much more than what the child cannot do for herself - they are responsible for everything - all the child has to do is be willing.

 

[RichardBurger]

This is a terrible post! Twisting the words of Paul to make the meaning that 'God did it for me, now I don't have to do anything!'

God did what you could NOT do for you, that he might empower you to do everything just as he does by a new nature. What the old nature could not do, be as he is, the new can. This is a perfect example of an anti-gospel that preaches that it is good to live your whole life in the wilderness...As a matter of fact, you can't do anything else, it's impossible to take the promised land!

This is formed in unbelief, and is counter to the type of faith God is seeking for. Many nod when we say 'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me'... But this nodding reveals itself to be a product of indoctrination rather than faith, because when the same person is asked 'can you walk as he walked' or 'can you overcome sin' they answer 'of course not! that's impossible!'

What God hates, the unbelief that says 'No, you cannot take the promised land', we have come to call good, 'resting from your works'. What God loves, faith that moves mountains, we call works or self-righteousness.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

 

[Prentis]

There was a lack of humility in my post, and I am sorry for that.

What I am trying to get across is that we must have faith in the power of God... That we can indeed overcome and be as he is! :)

Blessings to you all!

 

[Episkopos]

So Richard you are ignoring this..

what do you make of this verse...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


Without mocking WHAT DOES JOHN MEAN HERE?

Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[RichardBurger]

So Richard you are ignoring this..

********* I ignore nothing. **********

what do you make of this verse...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

******** You are so focused on your works and your idea that you can stop sinning by your efforts you think the words """ but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. --- You fail to see that only one that was ever begotten in the scriptures Jesus Christ **************

Without mocking WHAT DOES JOHN MEAN HERE?

Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

********* This statement was written to the Jews who were still under the Law of Moses. Jesus and the 12 never preached that anyone was NOT under the Law of Moses. If you can prove that statement wrong then do it. *********

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

******** The flesh is of the Devil and will sin. Those whose spirits have been placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit can not sin because they are "in Christ" ****

Since you. and others, can not believe you are a person with a new spirit, born of God, living in flesh that has a sinful nature and will stiil sin, I know you will never see anything that I say.

It is the spirit that has been born of God; and that which is born of God (the spirit) can not sin because it is born of God.

The scriptures never say the flesh can stop sinning. It has not been born of the Holy Spirt. It was born because of the union of a man and a woman living in sinful flesh.

I know that you will not accept anything I say because you are only focused on your works and not on Jesus' work on the cross.

I should stop replying to you but I keep hoping that somerthing I say might open your eyes.

 

[Episkopos]

[/size][/i][/u]

Since you. and others, can not believe you are a person with a new spirit, born of God, living in flesh that has a sinful nature and will stiil sin, I know you will never see anything that I say.

It is the spirit that has been born of God; and that which is born of God (the spirit) can not sin because it is born of God.

The scriptures never say the flesh can stop sinning. It has not been born of the Holy Spirt. It was born because of the union of a man and a woman living in sinful flesh.

I know that you will not accept anything I say because you are only focused on your works and not on Jesus' work on the cross.

I should stop replying to you but I keep hoping that somerthing I say might open your eyes.

This is precisely the heresy that John was trying to correct in John1.

The flesh is the temple of the Holy Spirit for those who are truly born from above. John doesn't say...his spirit doesn't sin...it says...a man born of the Spirit cannot sin.

Your unbelief forces you to do the mental gymnastics that deny the true power of Christ.

Richard, you have completely gone astray. What is worse is that you claim to be a teacher. A teacher of the denial of the power of God to redeem a man to walk even as Jesus in the world.

Heresy one...only Jesus was begotten of God...

Richard said******** You are so focused on your works and your idea that you can stop sinning by your efforts you think the words """ but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. --- You fail to see that only one that was ever begotten in the scriptures Jesus Christ **************

This is wrong as all Christian know. John was writing to believers not to Jesus. WE have been begotten again through Christ. So you claim to be perfect in Spirit yet you deny being begotten again! Think your arguments through and pray about it. Perhaps it is not too late to save you.

1Pe_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


So you are saying that only Jesus can believe and love Jesus because only Jesus is begotten of God? This is patently false of course. Only Jesus can love the brethren????? Talk about getting yourself carte blanche to be a hateful mocker AND be saved.

Heresy 2...Only those Jews under the law can DO righteousness.

Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Richard said..********* This statement was written to the Jews who were still under the Law of Moses. Jesus and the 12 never preached that anyone was NOT under the Law of Moses. If you can prove that statement wrong then do it. *********

We are called to be doers of the law..not just hearers of the law. Your indoctrination tells you that a Christian cannot DO righteousness. But this is because you have spiritualized the reality out of the walk of a human being.

A Christian DOES righteousness through Christ. The body does not do it's own thing ...as a schizoid believer who seeks to rid his own responsibility for himself would argue.

RAther we are to be lights and salt in the world..not self-deceived self-seekers who exhonorate themselves from any penalty for the sin they are powerless to stop.

Heresy 3.. the flesh is of the devil...therefore Jesus hovered in an angelic body and was never really a man (gnostic heresy)

Richard said******** The flesh is of the Devil and will sin. Those whose spirits have been placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit can not sin because they are "in Christ" ****

The flesh was created by God and in God. You are confusing actual flesh members with the carnal nature that the bible refers to as the flesh. The POWER of the flesh is dealt with at the cross of Christ. Those who continue to operate in the power of the flesh ARE still of the devil

But Christ sets us free from this power through HIS divine power. Those who are Christ's have CRUCiFIED the power of the flesh so as to be alive in God.

 

[Episkopos]

A schizophrenic will claim it is the voices that are evil...and that he cannot help himself. This is Richard's argument for the gospel...we become schizophrenics by believing we are in the Spirit.

So we sin but it isn't really us sinning...we are powerless in our spirits to stop sinning. So the body is set loose in the world to sin, but the spirit is saved. ????

So by letting our bodies sin we are proclaiming the gospel of grace!!!??? If we try to stop our bodies from sinning, then we are judged under the law as trying to work righteousness on our own...????

Of course this position is a dilatentish and ridiculous scheme. How much further from the truth may we stray?

 

[RichardBurger]

A schizophrenic will claim it is the voices that are evil...and that he cannot help himself. This is Richard's argument for the gospel...we become schizophrenics by believing we are in the Spirit.

So we sin but it isn't really us sinning...we are powerless in our spirits to stop sinning. So the body is set loose in the world to sin, but the spirit is saved. ????

So by letting our bodies sin we are proclaiming the gospel of grace!!!??? If we try to stop our bodies from sinning, then we are judged under the law as trying to work righteousness on our own...????

Of course this position is a dilatentish and ridiculous scheme. How much further from the truth may we stray?

To think that we can overcome our sinful nature is to be-little the work of God on the cross and make it unnecessary. Did the Jews, God's chosen people, overcome their sinful natures by the works of the Law? Or did they become self-righteous and place their faith in their works?

 

[Episkopos]

To think that we can overcome our sinful nature is to be-little the work of God on the cross and make it unnecessary. Did the Jews, God's chosen people, overcome their sinful natures by the works of the Law? Or did they become self-righteous and place their faith in their works?

Actually, Richard, the victory on the cross of Christ is the victory over the sin nature that kept us in prison and in darkness. Jesus gives us that victory and sets us free from that which once alienated us from God. This victory is real!

We overcome through Christ in us....the hope of glory! :)

The power of the cross crucifies the old nature that once controlled our thoughts and actions. We are born again to begin a new life in HIS power...resurrection power! As Paul said...where once it was him trying to fight on his own (and failing)...it was no longer he but CHRIST in him that now lived the victory OVER sin. Paul was made an overcomer through faith.

This is the power of Christ, to empower us to be just like Him who lives in us and strengthens us.

The flesh is not evil, but just weak and easily overcome through the fallen nature. Only the cross of Christ can break that old man nature in us so as to free us to be able to live holy before God.

 

[RichardBurger]

Actually, Richard, the victory on the cross of Christ is the victory over the sin nature that kept us in prison and in darkness. Jesus gives us that victory and sets us free from that which once alienated us from God. This victory is real!

We overcome through Christ in us....the hope of glory! :)

The power of the cross crucifies the old nature that once controlled our thoughts and actions. We are born again to begin a new life in HIS power...resurrection power! As Paul said...where once it was him trying to fight on his own (and failing)...it was no longer he but CHRIST in him that now lived the victory OVER sin. Paul was made an overcomer through faith.

This is the power of Christ, to empower us to be just like Him who lives in us and strengthens us.

The flesh is not evil, but just weak and easily overcome through the fallen nature. Only the cross of Christ can break that old man nature in us so as to free us to be able to live holy before God.

Galatians 2:16-3:3
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Justification by Faith (cf. Romans 4) 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

Galatians 2:16-3:3
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Justification by Faith (cf. Romans 4) 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Repetitive argumentation? It is better to look more closely at what the rest of the bible says to get a clearer picture of the word of God.

I am espousing walking in the Spirit according to the divine power of grace not a self-help effort! What makes you not able to see this?