A Form of godliness

[Behold]

So in Timothy "form" indeed means an outward appearance but in Philippians it's an identity? I guess that's because it works with the trinity that way, that we must interpret everything so as to fit with the trinity. The trinity comes first and then the story. Really?

Im not certain why you brought up the Trinity on this Thread. ????????
Aren't there enough Trinity Threads for you yet?

And yes, there is a form of Godliness, that is a pretend. Its based on works and self effort. Its Legalism.

"Having a form of Christianity, but denying the POWER that creates Christianity".
See that?
There is no CROSS in it. There is no Holy Spirit in it. There is no Blood of Jesus in it. There is only "me me me me, what im doing, to save me".. In it.
Thats a form, a facade, a faux "Christianity", and its based on self righteousness.

 

[Rich R]

Diameterically opposed? That's too extreme. They aren't opposites, but one has the same form, the other looks like it. And yes, technically this is correct. So let's leave it being correct, OK?

If in one case "form" means an outward appearance and in another case it mean identity, it is absolutely diametrically opposed. The same word is given opposite meanings in order to satisfy preconceived ideas. That's what I meant.

Is the impetus that you don't like the Trinity implications?

That and a bunch of other things.

That one word derives from another word doesn't mean they have the same meaning, it has taken on a d[ifferent meaning, and that is why it's differentiated. Morphe and morphosis, the form, and the appearance, that's what they mean, isn't it?

Yes, but more to the point, something having the form of something else does not make it to be that something else. Jesus having the form of God does not make him God any more than a rank unbeliever having the form of a Christian makes them a Christian.

 

[Behold]

Jesus having the form of God does not make him God any more than a rank unbeliever having the form of a Christian makes them a Christian.

Ah,

You're apparently one of those forum members that only has one obsessive axe to grind.
Your's is the "trinity".
Usually its "OSAS"... or "Pre-destined Elect" or "Mary, Water Baptism, and the Sacraments"...or "why you must keep commandments".....but occasionally a Trinity Obsessive shows up and beats that horse around a TRACK for a while.

 

[Wrangler]

So in Timothy "form" indeed means an outward appearance but in Philippians it's an identity? I guess that's because it works with the trinity that way, that we must interpret everything so as to fit with the trinity. The trinity comes first and then the story. Really?

It’s so much like Dr. Seus.

 

[Behold]

It’s so much like Dr. Seus.

"Let US make man in OUR image".

Jesus is the "WORD" John 1........"made flesh".

The incarnate Word who "was God"... John 1..., became the virgin born Son who said..>"before Abraham was, I AM"

"with God, all things are possible".

 

[marks]

It'd be pretty hard to miss the message here! :)

Many people miss the message entirely.

I'd like to ask you the same questions I've asked many people. Generally they remain unanswered, but maybe you'd like to answer.

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus took upon Him the form of a servant. My first question would be, what was his form before? But the answer is already given, He was in the form of God.

So, to the first unanswered question,

He humbled Himself. What was He before humbling Himself? Proud? Or Glorious?

He became obedient. What was He before He became obedient? Disobedient? Or Sovereign?

How do you answer?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You and all Anti-Trinitarians will NEVER get it. That's because of willful blindness for which there is no remedy.

Endless anti-trinitarian threads. Makes for good ad revenue.

Much love!

 

[Rich R]

Im not certain why you brought up the Trinity on this Thread. ????????

Either you are incredibly out of touch and don't see the correlation between Jesus being God and the trinity doctrine, or you are a nitpicker extraordinaire. Since you seem to be fairly intelligent, I'm thinking the latter. :)

Aren't there enough Trinity Threads for you yet?

Whose to say?

And yes, there is a form of Godliness, that is a pretend. Its based on works and self effort. Its Legalism.

"Having a form of Christianity, but denying the POWER that creates Christianity".
See that?
There is no CROSS in it. There is no Holy Spirit in it. There is no Blood of Jesus in it. There is only "me me me me, what im doing, to save me".. In it.
Thats a form, a facade, a faux "Christianity", and its based on self righteousness.

Well said there! That's what we are to guard against.

 

[marks]

Stop trying to keep finessing new hidden meanings and words

without finding and forcing in ridiculous non-supportive meanings from other verses and mainly from your own opinion,

In case you ever wonder . . .

 

[marks]

Im not certain why you brought up the Trinity on this Thread. ????????
Aren't there enough Trinity Threads for you yet?

That was his agenda at the beginning, I think.

Now it's arguments over words, so, a non-starter.

Much love!

 

[Rich R]

Ah,

You're apparently one of those forum members that only has one obsessive axe to grind.
Your's is the "trinity".
Usually its "OSAS"... or "Pre-destined Elect" or "Mary, Water Baptism, and the Sacraments"...or "why you must keep commandments".....but occasionally a Trinity Obsessive shows up and beats that horse around a TRACK for a while.

And you've looked at all my posts? I don't think so.

 

[Rich R]

Many people miss the message entirely.

I'd like to ask you the same questions I've asked many people. Generally they remain unanswered, but maybe you'd like to answer.

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus took upon Him the form of a servant. My first question would be, what was his form before? But the answer is already given, He was in the form of God.

So, to the first unanswered question,

He humbled Himself. What was He before humbling Himself? Proud? Or Glorious?

He became obedient. What was He before He became obedient? Disobedient? Or Sovereign?

How do you answer?

Seems like an easy question. Not sure why so many couldn't answer it.

Jesus was always the son of God. You do understand that a son can in no way be his own father?

 

[marks]

You do understand that a son can in no way be his own father?

This is the standard anti-Trinity objection. But . . . 3 cannot be 1! Not in human understanding, yeah, I get that.

But you didn't answer my questions.

It's OK.

No one does.

:

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, to the first unanswered question,

He humbled Himself. What was He before humbling Himself? Proud? Or Glorious?

He became obedient. What was He before He became obedient? Disobedient? Or Sovereign?
Much love!

What was Jesus Before He humbled Himself? If He humbled Himself, it means He was not humble, and became Humble. So the question is, before humbling Himself, was He proud? Filled with pride about how wonderful He was? Or was it simply that He was in fact glorious?

John 17:5 KJV
5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

What was Jesus before becoming obedient? Was He disobedient? Of course not!!

1 Corinthians 15:47 KJV
47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

He was sovereign.

Jesus Christ, the Glorious Sovereign Lord of Heaven.

Who, being in the form of God, took upon Himself the form of a servant.

6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

Hebrews 10:5 KJV
5) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

John 1:14 KJV
14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Much love!

 

[Jack]

I only believe in one Jack. If Jack said ‘let US make X in OUR image according to OUR likeness,’ I would reach the obvious conclusion that Jack was talking to somebody else.

So you're saying God had help in the Creation? Who would that be?

Only a mystical dualist would conclude the other is himself.

God called Himself "US" and "OUR". Father, Son and Holy Spirit! I didn't call myself "US" and "OUR". You're doing the JW twist again.

Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Name is singular. Know what singular means? And guess Who'd Name they baptized in. Jesus!

 

[Rich R]

This is the standard anti-Trinity objection. But . . . 3 cannot be 1! Not in human understanding, yeah, I get that.

Yes, we must dabble in mysticism for the trinity.

But you didn't answer my questions.

It's OK.

No one does.

:

Much love!

From post #32:

"Seems like an easy question. Not sure why so many couldn't answer it.

Jesus was always the son of God. You do understand that a son can in no way be his own father?"​

Maybe people answer your questions but you don't read them?

 

[marks]

Yes, we must dabble in mysticism for the trinity.


From post #32:

"Seems like an easy question. Not sure why so many couldn't answer it.

Jesus was always the son of God. You do understand that a son can in no way be his own father?"​

Maybe people answer your questions but you don't read them?

That's non-sequitor. Evasive.

Jesus became obedient. So, before that, was He disobedient? Or sovereign?

Do you see how "Jesus is God's Son" does not address this question?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, we must dabble in mysticism for the trinity.

Actually, you need only accept the saying of Scripture.

Of course, this style of discussion goes nowhere. Call it mystical, whatever, that doesn't change the sayings of Scripture.

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

The former is a poser and does not regard or lacks the Spirit of God and its divine characteristics. He can only imitate genuine righteousness and godliness. The latter however is our lord, who not only possesses the Spirit of God, it actually possesses him. He is given broad authority and in this sense on equal par with his Father, demonstrated in his words and actions.

Are you aware that two similar but different words are used in those places? They are not the same.

Because Jesus is THE EXPRESS IMAGE of God (Hebrew 1:3). If you have seen Jesus you have seen God the Father (who is invisible and has always been invisible). But what you also need to clearly understand is that Jesus the Man "thought it not robbery to be equal with God". Why? BECAUSE HE HIMSELF IS GOD ("I AM" or deity). Thus we arrive at the conclusion that there are at least two divine persons within the Godhead. And since Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit is also God, that makes up the triune Godhead (or Trinity).

Now the Anti-Trinitarians will become apoplectic because they simply cannot refute these truths which are embedded in Scripture. So they try to misrepresent Scripture.

Yes. The Greek of 2 Timothy 3:5 is μόρφωσιν (morphōsis), while the Greek of Philippians 2:6 is μορφῇ (morphē). In the 2 Timothy verse, Paul is presenting a false form of the quality of godliness (therefore, not possessing the true quality), while in the Philippians 2 verses he is presenting the true form of God (the true thing itself). This is not mystical; it is what it is.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Rich R]

That's non-sequitor. Evasive.

Jesus became obedient. So, before that, was He disobedient? Or sovereign?

Do you see how "Jesus is God's Son" does not address this question?

Much love!

Well, Jesus started out in life just like the rest of us. He knew nothing about obedience or disobedience. He came into this world knowing nothing and learned about life as he was taught. Part of that teaching was to be obedient to God.

That's my best answer. I would be interested to get your take.