22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

John was at the same temple visit when the money changers were driven out, his account clearly shows the subject was the destruction of the Lord's body, and not a literal temple made of stones

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Do you believe that the disciples were talking about His body here:

Matthew 24:5 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Whatever temple the disciples were talking about there is the same temple Jesus was talking about here:

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus asked "See ye not all these things?", what "things" was He referring to? It seems clear to me that He was talking about the temple buildings that the disciples showed Him. What say you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Unless you want to argue that God didn't command animal sacrifices, which he did, and since Moses predicts that those in the Millennial kingdom will obey the commandments of God, the how do you say that there won't be animal sacrifices in the Millennial kingdom. It's a simple matter of logic. 2 + 2 = 4?

I'm not seeing any logic here at all. God commanded animal sacrifices long ago and they were performed as a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:1). How exactly does that turn into animal sacrifices being performed again in the future?

What else can it be? Do you know of a time when God brought Israel back to the land, circumcised their hearts, blessed them materially, protected them from their enemies, gave Israel all the spoil taken from them? When did Israel ever obey God's commandments? Try to follow the course of the passage.

Which passage exactly are you talking about? I only referenced the book of Deuteronomy in general and not any particular passage. Honestly, I think it's insane to think that anything in Deuteronomy has anything to do with a future Millennium. The sacrifices talked about there were the old covenant sacrifices.

 

[covenantee]

John was at the same temple visit when the money changers were driven out, his account clearly shows the subject was the destruction of the Lord's body, and not a literal temple made of stones

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Yes; so there is no connection between what Jesus said about His bodily temple on the physical temple cleansing occasion, and what He said about the physical temple on the Olivet occasion.

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Let's take a break from the repetitive back and forth for a minute and look at this from another angle. If Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies in the future, then who do you think that will be and why?

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

This here indicates that what Jerusalem being surrounded by armies and being made desolate relates to is "wrath upon this people". So, it's talking about God's wrath here. Is that your understanding of what Luke 21:20-24 is about? Do you think He is going to destroy Jerusalem in the future?

It's my opinion and belief that it will be the world's "Muslim" faction that will come against Jerusalem, and the Jews pushing the building of a future Temple in Jerusalem on the Muslim controlled temple mount, my "Opinion"

The scripture below teaches the King of Assyria and others mentioned will come against Jerusalem

Verses 14-17 below shows those that have fleed from Jerusalem to the wilderness surrounding Jerusalem Revelation 12:6, being fed by God Manna from heaven as the world watches my "Opinion"

Micah 7:11-17KJV
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Fully Understand, Because You Have No Response To The Biblical Truth Presented

I fully understand that you are very robotic and can't address other's arguments. All you can do is repeat yourself without actually addressing anything other's say.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes; so there is no connection between what Jesus said about His bodily temple on the physical temple cleansing occasion, and what He said about the physical temple on the Olivet occasion.

Thanks for the confirmation.

That is your opinion and I disagree, John was with the disciples at the temple visit, and just because his account doesn't mention that seen in the Olivet discourse doesn't mean he wasn't there

However John gave the direct interpretation of the temple destruction, and it wasn't as the Pharisees or reformed preterist eschatology believes and teaches

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's my opinion and belief that it will be the world's "Muslim" faction that will come against Jerusalem, and the Jews pushing the building of a future Temple in Jerusalem on the Muslim controlled temple mount, my "Opinion"

The scripture below teaches the King of Assyria and others mentioned will come against Jerusalem

Verses 14-17 below shows those that have fleed from Jerusalem to the wilderness surrounding Jerusalem Revelation 12:6, being fed by God Manna from heaven as the world watches my "Opinion"

Micah 7:11-17KJV
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Thanks for the response. I, of course, completely disagree, but you already know that.

So, do you see this event as being God's wrath? You didn't answer that part of what I asked about. As I showed, Luke 21:23 indicates that this event has to do with God's wrath against the Jews in Jerusalem.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you believe that the disciples were talking about His body here:

Matthew 24:5 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Whatever temple the disciples were talking about there is the same temple Jesus was talking about here:

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus asked "See ye not all these things?", what "things" was He referring to? It seems clear to me that He was talking about the temple buildings that the disciples showed Him. What say you?

Jesus was speaking of a literal temple in Jerusalem, that was going to be destroyed in the spiritual symbolic at Calvary just as John stated below, it's that simple, I will repeat it again and again, we disagree

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[covenantee]

That is your opinion and I disagree, John was with the disciples at the temple visit, and just because his account doesn't mention that seen in the Olivet discourse doesn't mean he wasn't there

However John gave the direct interpretation of the temple destruction, and it wasn't as the Pharisees or reformed preterist eschatology believes and teaches

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

You are unable to establish any connection between what Jesus said about His bodily temple on the physical temple cleansing occasion, and what He said about the physical temple on the Olivet occasion.

Your futurism has failed you.

Thanks again for the confirmation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thanks for the response. I, of course, completely disagree, but you already know that.

So, do you see this event as being God's wrath? You didn't answer that part of what I asked about. As I showed, Luke 21:23 indicates that this event has to do with God's wrath against the Jews in Jerusalem.

I see God's "Wrath" as being future, being poured out of his cup on "the day of the Lord" at the future second coming on the Last day (The End)

 

[jeffweeder]

I fully understand that you are very robotic and can't address other's arguments. All you can do is repeat yourself without actually addressing anything other's say.

I have noticed that. The post where he just quoted what i said and never said anything he has edited it sometime later with his response without letting me know what he said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus was speaking of a literal temple in Jerusalem, that was going to be destroyed in the spiritual symbolic at Calvary just as John stated below, it's that simple,

It's that simple? I can't make sense of what you said here at all. The disciples were very clearly talking about the temple standing at that time and Jesus was talking about THAT temple. But, you turn it into Him talking about a future temple? But, you also say He was talking about His body when you reference John 2. How is this simple? You make no sense whatsoever.

 

[Truth7t7]

I have noticed that. The post where he just quoted what i said and never said anything he has edited it sometime later with his response without letting me know what he said.

If related to Truth7t7, By all means what was in this post of concern that you believe was edited, I will be more than happy to respond to all your questions and concerns, waiting?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see God's "Wrath" as being future, being poured out of his cup on "the day of the Lord" at the future second coming on the Last day (The End)

Why do you have such trouble giving straightforward answers to straightforward questions? I didn't ask you that, I asked you if you believe that the wrath referenced in Luke 21:20-24 is God's wrath. Yes or no?

 

[Truth7t7]

It's that simple? I can't make sense of what you said here at all. The disciples were very clearly talking about the temple standing at that time and Jesus was talking about THAT temple. But, you turn it into Him talking about a future temple? But, you also say He was talking about His body when you reference John 2. How is this simple? You make no sense whatsoever.

As simple as it Gets, nothing hard to understand whatsoever, read it again

You don't like this biblical truth, because it destroys the reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment that you believe and teach

Jesus was speaking of a literal temple in Jerusalem, that was going to be destroyed in the spiritual symbolic at Calvary just as John stated below, it's that simple, I will repeat it again and again, we disagree

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As simple as it Gets, nothing hard to understand whatsoever, read it again

Jesus was speaking of a literal temple in Jerusalem, that was going to be destroyed in the spiritual symbolic at Calvary just as John stated below, it's that simple, I will repeat it again and again, we disagree

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

John 2:19-22 has nothing to do with the Olivet Discourse. You trying to make it so is embarrassing and is a horrible case of twisting scripture to fit your view.

Explain to me exactly how Jesus's body was destroyed with no stone left upon another. How does that even make sense symbolically?

 

[Truth7t7]

Why do you have such trouble giving straightforward answers to straightforward questions? I didn't ask you that, I asked you if you believe that the wrath referenced in Luke 21:20-24 is God's wrath. Yes or no?

I will give you a straightforward answer again, and will highlight it in bold red

I see God's "Wrath" as being future, being poured out of his cup on "the day of the Lord" at the future second coming on the Last day (The End)

 

[jeffweeder]

It is clear that there are 2 temple cleansings. John's account happened at the start of his ministry where Jesus said destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up. (First passover)

Jn 2
First Passover—Cleansing the Temple
13 Now the Passover of the Jews was approaching, so Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And in the temple [enclosure] He found the people who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers sitting at their tables. 15 He made a whip of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; 16 then to those who sold the doves He said, “Take these things away! Stop making My Father’s house a place of commerce!” 17 His disciples remembered that it is written [in the Scriptures], “Zeal (love, concern) for Your house [and its honor] will consume Me.” 18 Then the Jews retorted, “What sign (attesting miracle) can You show us as [proof of] your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then the Jews replied, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and You will raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple which was His body.


The other cleansing occurred toward the end of his ministry, at least the day before he gave his olivet discourse. (His last passover)

Matt 21
12 And Jesus entered the temple [grounds] and drove out [with force] all who were buying and selling [birds and animals for sacrifice] in the temple area, and He turned over the tables of the moneychangers [who made a profit exchanging foreign money for temple coinage] and the chairs of those who were selling doves [for sacrifice]. 13 Jesus said to them, “It is written [in Scripture], ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a robbers’ den.”

14 And the blind and the lame came to Him in [the porticoes and courts of] the temple area, and He healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful and miraculous things that Jesus had done, and heard the boys who were shouting in [the porticoes and courts of] the temple [in praise and adoration], “Hosanna to the Son of David (the Messiah),” they became indignant 16 and they said to Him, “Do You hear what these children are saying?” And Jesus replied to them, “Yes; have you never read [in the Scripture], ‘Out of the mouths of infants and nursing babies You have prepared and provided praise for Yourself’?” 17 Then He left them and went out of the city to Bethany, and spent the night there.

 

[Truth7t7]

John 2:19-22 has nothing to do with the Olivet Discourse. You trying to make it so is embarrassing and is a horrible case of twisting scripture to fit your view.

Explain to me exactly how Jesus's body was destroyed with no stone left upon another. How does that even make sense symbolically?

The temple in Jerusalem was God's House where sin was atoned for through animal blood sacrifice

When Jesus died on Calvary and she'd his precious blood his body was killed/destroyed and resurrected on the 3rd day, at this time the literal temple in Jerusalem was destroyed/abolished/gone in the spiritual realm, not one stone upon another was left

The Pharisees looked at a physical temple being destroyed, and reformed preterist eschatology does the same today in 66-70AD Jerusalem fulfillment

As scripture clearly teaches, it wasn't a literal temple in Jerusalem, but the temple of the Lord's body on Calvary, it's simple, clear, and very easy to understand

Jesus Is The Lord

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is clear that there are 2 temple cleansings. John's account happened at the start of his ministry where Jesus said destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up. (First passover)

Jn 2
First Passover—Cleansing the Temple
13 Now the Passover of the Jews was approaching, so Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And in the temple [enclosure] He found the people who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers sitting at their tables. 15 He made a whip of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; 16 then to those who sold the doves He said, “Take these things away! Stop making My Father’s house a place of commerce!” 17 His disciples remembered that it is written [in the Scriptures], “Zeal (love, concern) for Your house [and its honor] will consume Me.” 18 Then the Jews retorted, “What sign (attesting miracle) can You show us as [proof of] your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then the Jews replied, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and You will raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple which was His body.


The other cleansing occurred toward the end of his ministry, at least the day before he gave his olivet discourse. (His last passover)

Matt 21
12 And Jesus entered the temple [grounds] and drove out [with force] all who were buying and selling [birds and animals for sacrifice] in the temple area, and He turned over the tables of the moneychangers [who made a profit exchanging foreign money for temple coinage] and the chairs of those who were selling doves [for sacrifice]. 13 Jesus said to them, “It is written [in Scripture], ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a robbers’ den.”

14 And the blind and the lame came to Him in [the porticoes and courts of] the temple area, and He healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful and miraculous things that Jesus had done, and heard the boys who were shouting in [the porticoes and courts of] the temple [in praise and adoration], “Hosanna to the Son of David (the Messiah),” they became indignant 16 and they said to Him, “Do You hear what these children are saying?” And Jesus replied to them, “Yes; have you never read [in the Scripture], ‘Out of the mouths of infants and nursing babies You have prepared and provided praise for Yourself’?” 17 Then He left them and went out of the city to Bethany, and spent the night there.

Jesus went to Jerusalem at the passover and ran the money changers out of the temple "Twice" that's a new one

John 2:13-21KJV
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.