22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[covenantee]

The temple in Jerusalem was God's House where sin was atoned for through animal blood sacrifice

When Jesus died on Calvary and she'd his precious blood his body was killed/destroyed and resurrected on the 3rd day, at this time the literal temple in Jerusalem was destroyed/abolished/gone in the spiritual realm, not one stone upon another was left

The Pharisees looked at a physical temple being destroyed, and reformed preterist eschatology does the same today in 66-70AD Jerusalem fulfillment

As scripture clearly teaches, it wasn't a literal temple in Jerusalem, but the temple of the Lord's body on Calvary, it's simple, clear, and very easy to understand

Jesus Is The Lord

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Jesus did not speak of the temple of His body at Olivet, as He did in John 2.

No connection between the two.

Debunked.

A futurized flop.

 

[WPM]

Jesus did not speak of the temple of His body at Olivet, as He did in John 2.

No connection between the two.

Debunked.

A futurized flop.

Exactly bro. We'll put.

 

[WPM]

Do you believe that the disciples were talking about His body here:

Matthew 24:5 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Whatever temple the disciples were talking about there is the same temple Jesus was talking about here:

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus asked "See ye not all these things?", what "things" was He referring to? It seems clear to me that He was talking about the temple buildings that the disciples showed Him. What say you?

I can answer. Yes bro.

 

[WPM]

It's my opinion and belief that it will be the world's "Muslim" faction that will come against Jerusalem, and the Jews pushing the building of a future Temple in Jerusalem on the Muslim controlled temple mount, my "Opinion"

The scripture below teaches the King of Assyria and others mentioned will come against Jerusalem

Verses 14-17 below shows those that have fleed from Jerusalem to the wilderness surrounding Jerusalem Revelation 12:6, being fed by God Manna from heaven as the world watches my "Opinion"

Micah 7:11-17KJV
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Come into the NT and stop trying to take us back to old covenant arrangement. Dispies make the OT say whatever they want. They are exposed by the fuller revelation.

 

[jeffweeder]

Jesus ran the money changers out of the temple "Twice" that's a new one

No, it's in the bible.
Have a closer look at John account and Matt account...,

In one he drives out cattle and in the other he drives out traders.
in one he calls the temple a house of merchandise and the other a den of robbers.

After the John 2 cleansing we read this in jn 3:22,

22 After these things Jesus and His disciples went into the land of Judea, and there He spent time with them and baptized. 23 Now John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was an abundance of water there; and people were coming and were being baptized— 24 for John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Clearly happened at Jesus first passover as the recognized Messiah.


Matthew 21 cleansing happens in our Lords final week.

John 18
38 Pilate said to Him [scornfully], “What is truth?”

And when he had said this, he went out to the Jews again and told them, “I find no guilt in Him [no crime, no cause for an accusation]. 39 But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover. So shall I release for you the King of the Jews?” 40 Then they all shouted back again, “Not this Man, but Barabbas!” Now Barabbas was a robber.

Matthew 27:14-16

14 But Jesus did not reply to him, not even to a single accusation, so that the governor was greatly astonished.

15 Now at the feast [of the Passover] the governor was in the habit of setting free any one prisoner whom the people chose. 16 And at that time they were holding a notorious prisoner [guilty of insurrection and murder], called Barabbas.

 

[Brakelite]

So the thread, as is inevitable with any eschatological topic, has evolved and wandered far away from us original premise... Amil/premil. The initial argument based on the belief that there is only one resurrection.
Jesus taught that there will be two general resurrections: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:28, 29.

Before giving further specific proof on this point, we must note that Christ referred to the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation. This seems to indicate that the saved and lost do not arise at the same time. Two separate resurrections are described. The book of Revelation confirms this fact. John wrote, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” Revelation 20:6.

The use of the term “first resurrection” is proof that there must be more than one. If I say, “This is the first house I built,” you know that I had to build at least one other.

Two points are established in this text. First, only the good people , the redeemed of Christ, from all of history, will have any part in the first resurrection. It plainly says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.” Second, we learn that the resurrection of those saints is the beginning point of the millennium, because after being raised they “shall reign with him a thousand years.”
According to this verse, none of the wicked will have any part in the first resurrection. This is also established by verses 4 and 5 which describe the resurrection of those “which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (came to live) and reigned with Christ a thousand years. … This is the first resurrection.” This leaves no doubt about the class who will be included in the first resurrection. It is only for those who remained faithful to Christ. But in the midst of that text we find a very significant, parenthetical sentence: “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Verse 5.

Obviously, the “rest of the dead” can only be in reference to the wicked. They will come forth from their graves at the end of the millennium—when “the thousand years were finished.”

Now we have a clear picture before us of two resurrections separated by a thousand years. The good people are raised at the beginning of the millennium, and the wicked are resurrected at the end.

 

[jeffweeder]

Jesus taught that there will be two general resurrections: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:28, 29.

Greetings Brakelite
An HOUR is coming when ALL IN THE GRAVE will hear one voice, - his voice and come forth.
Say no more.

 

[Phoneman777]

Your claim the papacy over 1260 years represents Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) is "False"!

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You do realize the interpretation I put forth was the interpretation of Luther, Tyndale, the writers of the KJV Bible, Newton, Lincoln, Calvin, and every single Protestant for over 300 years...before the Jesuits got busy manufacturing the idea you esteem to be the truth, right?

Do you really think the Jesuits who still to this day can't teach salvation by grace through faith alone should be trusted with weightier matters of Scripture like eschatology?

 

[Randy Kluth]

It's always ridiculous when someone says something like "Unless you think God lies". Do you really think I would believe that God would ever lie? I'm sure you don't believe that I would think that, so why say something like that?

No, of course I don't think you believe God lies! I'm just trying to underscore how obvious it appears to me that God has promised something. I've shared these things for years, and yet those who hear me don't seem to actually hear me! It's as if they believe their doctrine so strongly that they don't actually consider what is being argued.

You seem to just completely ignore what Paul wrote about God's promises to Abraham and his seed in Galatians 3:16-29 where he applied the promises to Christ and those who belong to Christ.

I've not once said I disagree with Gal 3.16-29. Abraham's promises are of course fulfilled by Christ and on behalf of people of faith, whatever nation they belong to. But the point is, these things were promised to *nations,* and not just *individuals.* The fact you skate by this is why I emphasize *what God has promised.* Either He did so, or He didn't. If He did, then He would be a liar if He didn't complete the task.

Randy, is Jesus your King right now? He is, right? So, do you understand that means you're in His kingdom? He's not a King without a kingdom.

Please get this in your understanding. As I've been saying, to be "in his Kingdom" is a matter of *membership*--not a matter of his Kingdom having already come! Yes, we are members of Jesus' Kingdom now. But we are not yet *in that Kingdom* in terms of its having already come, and our already being in that era.

Why you can't grasp this confuses me?? I keep going around saying the same things, and you keep bringing the same points out as if I haven't already explained it.

You know what? Until you actually show you grasp the points I'm making it makes no sense in going on. Either show you understand, or I'm done. I'm not going to keep repeating myself for you. Others surely understand by now, even if you don't. I'm not saying they have to agree--just understand the argument.

I don't like the way you put that. Our current status in Christ is more than just a down payment.

That's not me. That's Scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, it's in the bible.
Have a closer look at John account and Matt account...,

In one he drives out cattle and in the other he drives out traders.
in one he calls the temple a house of merchandise and the other a den of robbers.

After the John 2 cleansing we read this in jn 3:22,

22 After these things Jesus and His disciples went into the land of Judea, and there He spent time with them and baptized. 23 Now John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was an abundance of water there; and people were coming and were being baptized— 24 for John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Clearly happened at Jesus first passover as the recognized Messiah.


Matthew 21 cleansing happens in our Lords final week.

John 18
38 Pilate said to Him [scornfully], “What is truth?”

And when he had said this, he went out to the Jews again and told them, “I find no guilt in Him [no crime, no cause for an accusation]. 39 But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover. So shall I release for you the King of the Jews?” 40 Then they all shouted back again, “Not this Man, but Barabbas!” Now Barabbas was a robber.

Matthew 27:14-16

14 But Jesus did not reply to him, not even to a single accusation, so that the governor was greatly astonished.

15 Now at the feast [of the Passover] the governor was in the habit of setting free any one prisoner whom the people chose. 16 And at that time they were holding a notorious prisoner [guilty of insurrection and murder], called Barabbas.

All accounts have Jesus in Jerusalem at the passover

All accounts have Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple

John goes further to explain and tie the event to the Lord's resurrection that would take place after his death on Calvary

"When therefore he was risen from the dead his disciple remembered that he had said this unto them"

The very same temple visit directly before Calvary, clear, simple, easy to understand

Conclusion: The temple visit was surrounding the time of the Jews passover and Calvary

John 2:19-23KJV
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

 

[Truth7t7]

You do realize the interpretation I put forth was the interpretation of Luther, Tyndale, the writers of the KJV Bible, Newton, Lincoln, Calvin, and every single Protestant for over 300 years...before the Jesuits got busy manufacturing the idea you esteem to be the truth, right?

Do you really think the Jesuits who still to this day can't teach salvation by grace through faith alone should be trusted with weightier matters of Scripture like eschatology?

Jerusalem is the Whore Mystery Babylon The Great

The future, little horn, man of sin, the beast, hasnt been, nor will he be a Roman Catholic Pope

The reformers had it all wrong, but living under the persecution of Rome during their time on earth, it is fully understandable

 

[Brakelite]

Greetings Brakelite
An HOUR is coming when ALL IN THE GRAVE will hear one voice, - his voice and come forth.
Say no more.

Hi. Yep, seems you've settled the question once and for all. Everyone out seems is resurrected at the same time, of you ignore the scriptures that appear to state otherwise. Which begs the question however. Having everyone resurrected at the same time, being at the second coming of Jesus in response to His voice calling them from their graves, what happens to the living wicked at the time? The dead righteous are raised to join Jesus in the air, the living righteous are translated, and the living wicked are killed, presumably to await their resurrection to damnation... what happens to the dead wicked...? Raised and then what?

 

[Brakelite]

Jerusalem is the Whore Mystery Babylon The Great

The future, little horn, man of sin, the beast, hasnt been, nor will he be a Roman Catholic Pope

The reformers had it all wrong, but living under the persecution of Rome during their time on earth, it is fully understandable

So you are suggesting that the reformers came to their conclusions based on observation and experience? That they didn't use the scriptures to come to what they all agreed on? Were they really that shallow and superficial in
their conclusions?
May I suggest that they were better Bible scholars than anyone here, and their conclusions were based on prophecy, not feelings.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi. Yep, seems you've settled the question once and for all. Everyone out seems is resurrected at the same time, of you ignore the scriptures that appear to state otherwise. Which begs the question however. Having everyone resurrected at the same time, being at the second coming of Jesus in response to His voice calling them from their graves, what happens to the living wicked at the time? The dead righteous are raised to join Jesus in the air, the living righteous are translated, and the living wicked are killed, presumably to await their resurrection to damnation... what happens to the dead wicked...? Raised and then what?

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

2 Peter 3:10:KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

So you are suggesting that the reformers came to their conclusions based on observation and experience? That they didn't use the scriptures to come to what they all agreed on? Were they really that shallow and superficial in
their conclusions?
May I suggest that they were better Bible scholars than anyone here, and their conclusions were based on prophecy, not feelings.

The Future Human Man, (The Antichrist) Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

 

[Truth7t7]

Come into the NT and stop trying to take us back to old covenant arrangement. Dispies make the OT say whatever they want. They are exposed by the fuller revelation.

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Your claims are false, I share biblical truth

Randy it's apparent you aren't pleased with your Zionist claims being exposed

God fulfilled his promise to Abraham through Jesus Christ as Galatians 3:16 clearly teaches

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

There won't be a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final Judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End) Nahum 1:5

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Your poisonous anti-Semitic propaganda is not welcome.

Gen 12.3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse.

 

[Phoneman777]

Please get this in your understanding. As I've been saying, to be "in his Kingdom" is a matter of *membership*--not a matter of his Kingdom having already come! Yes, we are members of Jesus' Kingdom now. But we are not yet *in that Kingdom* in terms of its having already come, and our already being in that era.

Amen. "Remember me WHEN Thou comest into Thy kingdom" implies that King Jesus' kingdom is future, right?

I find it amazing that even a brand new convert who didn't know the difference between "epistle" and "apostle" knew Jesus' kingdom would be set up after the Second Coming, yet our Preterist friends insist Jesus came back and set it up already...did every single ancient historian miss the cataclysmic eruption of the heavens, the splitting open of the skies, Jesus' glorious, blinding light that outshined the Sun, the earthshaking cacophony of both trumpet and divine word of God (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV) when He supposedly came back?

 

[Phoneman777]

Your poisonous anti-Semitic propaganda is not welcome.

Gen 12.3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse.

Isn't that a promise to Abraham, not the nation of Israel?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Isn't that a promise to Abraham, not the nation of Israel?

A reasonable question. Most people take it as a promise given to both Abraham and to those who share in his faith. That would, of course, include Israel, if they were really walking in the faith of Abraham. And it would also include Christians today who are walking their faith.

But yes, it is, first of all, being directed to Abraham, who is viewed as the father of our faith. Our faith is in Jesus, but God began making promises that are fulfilled in Christ with Abraham, the man of faith.

For a better understanding of how God's blessings work towards those who engage in Abraham's faith, look at the blessings and curses given to Israel at Mt. Gerazim and Mt. Ebal. There are blessings for obedience, but curses for disobedience. We must assume that the enemies who were to come against Israel would be punished, because it is said that obedient Israel would rout them.