Who Created or Made a Sin Nature?

[Peterlag]

I can go along with that.

However, only by sinning like Adam, does any person now have the same lust for sin like Adam.

All souls are still being created equally spiritual and clean, as Adam and Eve. There is therefore no excuse for any person sinning like Adam and Eve, even as there wasn't for them.

We are all created and lightened by Christ coming into the world, and death for the soul is only by the person lusting and sinning themselves.

Sin did not pass upon all men by birth, but death passes upon all by sinning, even as with Adam and Eve.

Jesus is the only soul on earth who never sinned, and so death did not pass upon His soul, until bearing our sins on the tree.

The mortal bodies die only because they are mortally made by Christ from the dust of the earth.

Just keep in mind...

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[face2face]

2 Corinthians 5:21
...that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Nothing there about man possessing immortality?
Remember your claim was God put Himself into man which you could Spirit i.e His divine essence.
I doubt you will find a verse...but go for it!

 

[Peterlag]

Nothing there about man possessing immortality?
Remember your claim was God put Himself into man which you could Spirit i.e His divine essence.
I doubt you will find a verse...but go for it!

I never said God put Himself in anybody. I said he gives His spirit to men and has all through out history.

 

[face2face]

I never said God put Himself in anybody. I said he gives His spirit to men and has all through out history.

Elaborate what you mean by Spirit?
When I read your post it sounded as though you believed man had an immortal essence in him.

 

[Peterlag]

Elaborate what you mean by Spirit?
When I read your post it sounded as though you believed man had an immortal essence in him.

God put the holy spirit upon Jesus immediately after he was baptized by John the Baptist because Jesus himself needed God’s gift of the holy spirit to have supernatural power just as the leaders and prophets of the Old Testament did. This fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies that God would put the holy spirit upon the Messiah enabling him in his ministry. The gift of the holy spirit was born “in” believers (John 14:17) after the Day of Pentecost rather than resting “upon” them and this is one reason why Christians are said to be “born again” of God’s spirit (1 Peter 1:3, 23). Christians have spiritual power when they receive the gift of the holy spirit (Acts 1:8) because the holy spirit is born in them and becomes part of their very nature, and this is why Christians are called God’s “holy ones” which is usually translated as “saints” in the New Testament.

God put His gift of the “holy spirit” or the “spirit” on as many people as He deemed necessary in the Old Testament, and we see this when we look at how God took the spirit that was upon Moses and put it upon the 70 elders of Israel. However, today everyone who makes Jesus Christ their Lord receives the indwelling gift of the holy spirit and that's why Peter on the Day of Pentecost quoted the prophecy in Joel that said God would “pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh."

 

[JunChosen]

All souls are still being created equally spiritual and clean, as Adam and Eve.

I beg to differ. Our creation is different from that as Adam and Eve were created good and without sin! But when they sinned and as progenitors of the human race, sin and death passed to all men..... Romans 3:12 reads:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"....(without exception).

and death for the soul is only by the person lusting and sinning themselves.

Your interpretation is flawed. "What about babies?"
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
Psalms 58:3ff....and Romans 3:12 above.

Sin did not pass upon all men by birth,

Yes they did as Romans 3:12 has stipulated.

The mortal bodies die only because they are mortally made by Christ from the dust of the earth.

So was Adam made from the dust of the ground. And if he didn't sin he could have lived forever.

Please study your Bible.

To God Be The Glory

 

[face2face]

The gift of the holy spirit was born “in” believers (John 14:17) after the Day of Pentecost rather than resting “upon” them and this is one reason why Christians are said to be “born again” of God’s spirit (1 Peter 1:3, 23).

A couple of errors here Peter. The Spirit of Truth is simply a knowledge of the true Gospel. 1 Corinthians 13 makes short work of this incorrect view of the Holy Spirit and its gifts. The HS was given to the early believers to establish the Gospel through the then known world...once this was achieved they ceased. But you are right in suggesting selected people throughout history have been endowed with the HS. No one today though...not until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled and the Lord returns will we see HS activity.
F2F

 

[Peterlag]

A couple of errors here Peter. The Spirit of Truth is simply a knowledge of the true Gospel. 1 Corinthians 13 makes short work of this incorrect view of the Holy Spirit and its gifts. The HS was given to the early believers to establish the Gospel through the then known world...once this was achieved they ceased. But you are right in suggesting selected people throughout history have been endowed with the HS. No one today though...not until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled and the Lord returns will we see HS activity.
F2F

No errors from me on this subject since I'm an expert on this subject. I don't believe I said anything about the spirit of truth. And all Christians have the spirit of God.

 

[Peterlag]

A couple of errors here Peter. The Spirit of Truth is simply a knowledge of the true Gospel. 1 Corinthians 13 makes short work of this incorrect view of the Holy Spirit and its gifts. The HS was given to the early believers to establish the Gospel through the then known world...once this was achieved they ceased. But you are right in suggesting selected people throughout history have been endowed with the HS. No one today though...not until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled and the Lord returns will we see HS activity.
F2F

But I can mention the spirit of truth since you brought it up...

Almost every English version translates John 14:17 similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it.” Capitalizing the “H” and “S” and using the English pronoun “He” is appropriate when God is being referred to as “the Holy Spirit.” However, when we see the “h” and “s” having the lower case such as "the holy spirit" and all the pronouns referring to that spirit being impersonal such as “it” and “which” is when the subject under discussion is the gift of God’s nature.

 

[robert derrick]

I beg to differ. Our creation is different from that as Adam and Eve were created good and without sin! But when they sinned and as progenitors of the human race, sin and death passed to all men..... Romans 3:12 reads:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"....(without exception).


Your interpretation is flawed. "What about babies?"
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
Psalms 58:3ff....and Romans 3:12 above.


Yes they did as Romans 3:12 has stipulated.


So was Adam made from the dust of the ground. And if he didn't sin he could have lived forever.

Please study your Bible.

To God Be The Glory

Until you answer the main question of just who created this sin nature or spirit, and who is putting it into man in the womb, then you're just repeating a tradition.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

No one believing in this tradition has even tried to answer the simple question, as though it doesn't matter who created it, it's just 'there'. Everyone has heard the theories of how, which can all be debunked by Scripture, and I would be glad to offer them to you, but if there is a how, then there must be a who that does it.

I.e. is Christ creating man today and putting sin in his seed? If not Christ, then who?

 

[robert derrick]

No errors from me on this subject since I'm an expert on this subject. I don't believe I said anything about the spirit of truth. And all Christians have the spirit of God.

You're talking to a JW. They teach the spirit is a force of nature and not a Person that speaks:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

I.e. JW natural theology for natural man.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Spirit of Truth is simply a knowledge of the true Gospel.

They are akin to the gnostics, which is all about knowledge only, and not about having the Spirit of Christ dwelling within.

They are not evil neighbors, and on the whole live disciplined and productive lives on earth, much like the unbelieving Jews, but they are cultish in their sectarianism, and when speaking to outsiders, their main purpose is to proselytize only.

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

It's not a coincidence that they refer most often to the 'monotheistic' Jews for their teachings, which is filled with much scholarship about the Bible, but not much truth about Scripture. Afterall, it was mostly those scholarly Jews of their own traditions, that reject the Jesus Christ as Lord and God.

 

[robert derrick]

Nothing there about man possessing immortality?
Remember your claim was God put Himself into man which you could Spirit i.e His divine essence.
I doubt you will find a verse...but go for it!

I recently learned you jehovah worshippers teach the soul is mortal, and is the logical basis from rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and God.

If souls of men are mortal only, then the immortal God can never become a man and living soul.

 

[GEN2REV]

People keep trying to tell how a sin nature was put into man, with a process for which man is now born with it.

But no one has ever said who did so. Until we have a creator and maker of something new, then there is no such thing that actually exists.

Except in the imagination of people.

I haven't read all 19 pages. Has anybody pointed out that the devil put the sin nature into man when Eve obeyed him in the garden?

It wasn't there until then and God punishes all 3 of them for it in Genesis 3:15.

Adam and Eve were innocent and without shame before that time. They had no sin nature. Putting that nature into them caused all mankind that came from them to have it, BUT it appears that there are two main types of people as well. Wheat and Tares seem to have differing levels of this nature, or proclivities with which to follow its tendency within them. Matthew 13:38

If the devil planted (generated) the Tares with a very strong sin nature, that is why Jesus said that there are people who "... it is not given to them to know ..." the secrets of spiritual salvation. Matthew 13:11

 

[face2face]

I recently learned you jehovah worshippers teach the soul is mortal, and is the logical basis from rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and God.

If souls of men are mortal only, then the immortal God can never become a man and living soul.

And where in Scripture is the concept of God becoming man taught? Jesus is born into condemned humanity! Hence why it can be said Romans 8:1-3

I am not a JW by the way!

I worked this out for myself which is something you ought to be able to do!

F2F

 

[face2face]

No errors from me on this subject since I'm an expert on this subject. I don't believe I said anything about the spirit of truth. And all Christians have the spirit of God.

Ah you quoted John 14:17.
I'm not seeing the expert and not all Christians have the spirit of God.

 

[Peterlag]

Ah you quoted John 14:17.
I'm not seeing the expert and not all Christians have the spirit of God.

They are not real Christians if they do not have the spirit of Christ.

 

[face2face]

They are not real Christians if they do not have the spirit of Christ.

The Spirit of Christ is simply having a true knowledge of him nothing more. Philippians 2:5 is all that is required...Bible calls it many things.

 

[Peterlag]

The Spirit of Christ is simply having a true knowledge of him nothing more. Philippians 2:5 is all that is required...Bible calls it many things.

I believe it was some good person who wrote me yesterday saying that I was talking to a JW and I believe they were referring to you. They went on to say that folks like you do not believe in the holy spirit.

 

[face2face]

I believe it was some good person who wrote me yesterday saying that I was talking to a JW and I believe they were referring to you. They went on to say that folks like you do not believe in the holy spirit.

Ah yes, there is one such person here who believes every person who is out of step with his bent on Scripture is a JW. It's rather comical really as this person must be the most blocked in the forum. Needless to say I am not a JW! I fully believe in the Holy Spirit as being the Power of God in its various manifestations however, I dont believe you have it but if you believe you do no amount of convincing would change that. Self delusion is rife in these last days before his coming which is why I commented on your original post.
F2F

 

[Peterlag]

Ah yes, there is one such person here who believes every person who is out of step with his bent on Scripture is a JW. It's rather comical really as this person must be the most blocked in the forum. Needless to say I am not a JW! I fully believe in the Holy Spirit as being the Power of God in its various manifestations however, I dont believe you have it but if you believe you do no amount of convincing would change that. Self delusion is rife in these last days before his coming which is why I commented on your original post.
F2F

Years ago I told my Catholic friend that if I don't have the spirit of God. Then nobody does.