Understanding The Resurrection To Come

[Davy]

Here is what many brethren have missed in their Bible study about the coming resurrection on the day of Christ's future return.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

That above Scripture by Lord Jesus is rarely referred to by those who wrongly teach 2 different times in Revelation 20 for the raising of the dead.

Granted that mere mention of the ordinal "first" in "first resurrection" automatically infers at least one more resurrection. And bypassing what Lord Jesus said above in John 5:28-29 ought to confuse those thinking that. It often does, so they just bypass John 5 altogether. Yet what is Lord Jesus showing with that John 5:28-29 Scripture?

Jesus revealed that on the day of His future coming, ALL... the 'dead' are raised.

That means, there is NO second raising of the dead later. On the day of His coming, the dead are raised to... what kind of body? Well, what type... of body did Apostle Paul teach that the resurrection is? "Oh no", some might say, "Paul was ONLY speaking of those in Christ there!" No, that's wrong. Paul was pointing to the type body of the resurrection, period.

Now what did Lord Jesus say again, in John 5:29 about the dead being resurrected, who all it includes?

John 5:29
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Do you notice that word "resurrection" there brethren, for those wicked? How can that be, IF what Paul was teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 about the resurrection is meant ONLY for those in Christ Jesus? Obviously there's a problem with men's interpretation, they are missing something that Paul was teaching about the resurrection, because Jesus showed the wicked will receive a RESURRECTION BODY also on that day!

So what is it that men's traditions are missing about this? And believe me, what is most often taught about the resurrection is men's traditions, and not in-depth Bible study Truth. The status quo line from the seminaries is what pastors under Church organizations are under, so that is what you get. But there's a lot missing which God's Word reveals that they don't teach...

 

[Davy]

1 Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."
KJV

The status quo Christian seminaries teach that above change is ONLY for those in Christ Jesus. They most often miss that, "the dead shall be raised incorruptible" which points ALSO to the "resurrection of damnation" of John 5.

If you've properly studied 1 Corinthians 15, then you know that being 'raised incorruptible' means to a body of incorruption, which is what type of body per Paul? It is the "spiritual body"! This means those of the "resurrection of damnation", the wicked dead, will ALSO receive a body of incorruption, the spiritual body! And Lord Jesus showed WHEN that will happen, i.e., on the day of His future coming.

What is the difference between those in Christ Jesus and the "resurrection of damnation" if both are raised to the incorruptible "spiritual body"? Apostle Paul revealed the difference, but in the Greek, and also when he quoted from the OT prophets in 1 Corinthians 15 ("where", you might ask? See my next post.)

 

[Davy]

... continued,

1 Cor 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."
KJV

In verse 53 above, Paul used FOUR DIFFERENT Greek words revealed TWO CHANGES must occur to have eternal life in Christ Jesus.

The first change is about "this corruptible must put on incorruption". That means our flesh body ("corruptible") must put on the "spiritual body" ("incorruption"). And then our soul condition ("this mortal") must put on deathlessness through Faith on Jesus Christ (which is to put on "immortality").

What about the wicked "resurrection of damnation" that are also raised on the day of Christ's coming? Well, what kind of condition was their 'souls' in before they died, did they believe on Jesus Christ before they died? No! And how did Lord Jesus mean His metaphors about the blind unbelieving Pharisees, comparing them to whited tombs that appear nice and clean on the outside, but inside are full of dead men's bones? (Matthew 23:27). Lord Jesus was showing us that the unsaved are spiritually dead inside until they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, even while they are yet alive walking upon this earth. Once those unsaved die, their souls are still in that spiritually 'dead' condition, being without Christ Jesus.

Are we then getting closer to the REAL meaning about the "dead" of Revelation 20:5 that don't live again until the "thousand years" are over? Yes. It means those do not 'live' in the salvation sense, meaning still unsaved, all the way through that "thousand years" period. And those represent BOTH the "resurrection of damnation", AND the wicked that are 'changed' on the "last trump" also. They all will be in spiritual bodies too, but still with spiritually dead mortal souls that will still be subject to the "second death" of being cast into the "lake of fire" after the "thousand years."

And did you notice in 1 Corinthians 15:54 above that Paul was quoting that, "Death is swallowed up in victory"? Paul was quoting Isaiah 25...

Isa 25:6-9
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, :"Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
KJV

Zechariah 14 reveals the day of Christ's future coming also. It even shows about the leftovers of the nations that come up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world. Even those will be made to come up to Jerusalem from year to year, and worship The KING, and keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:16-17). Thus that also reveals the unsaved nations will still be with us during that 1,000 years reign by Lord Jesus after His future return. But in what kind of state will they manifest in that time?

Did you notice Isaiah 25:7 above, about God removing "the face of the covering cast over all people", and "the vail that is spread over all nations"? And then in the very next verse it is then said, "He will swallow up death in victory"!

Are you getting a more in-depth picture of what God is going to do when Lord Jesus comes, and it will be for all... nations and peoples?

It is pointing to the death of this present flesh world being no more. The concept of 'death' will still exist for the unsaved, just not for their flesh which will be gone. The "second death" the unsaved in that time will still be under is about destruction of one's spirit with mortal soul by being cast into the future "lake of fire" after the GWT Judgment.

However, will all... of the unsaved actually go... into that future "lake of fire" after the "thousand years"? No, and that is where the Rev.20:5 idea about the spiritually dead not living again until the thousand years have ended comes in. To LIVE... in that time after Christ's future return points to ETERNAL LIFE in Christ Jesus, i.e., the "first resurrection". Likewise, the inferred 2nd resurrection does too, and is a resurrection LIKE the "first resurrection", one unto eternal life in Christ Jesus!

Some of the unsaved nations will convert to Lord Jesus Christ during the "thousand years", and be saved at the end of it. That is the "dead" of Rev.20:5 living again (in Christ).

 

[ElieG12]

The Bible speaks more than once of the resurrection of the just and the unjust, two classes of people who are dead now and will be resurrected...

In which group do you think those people who did not know Christ but who were not evil-hearted, nor did they harm others, will be in when they are resurrected: among the just or the unjust?

According to you, what will be the purpose of the resurrection of these people? What the end of them?

 

[Davy]

The Bible speaks more than once of the resurrection of the just and the unjust, two classes of people who are dead now and will be resurrected...

In which group do you think those people who did not know Christ but who were not evil-hearted, nor did they harm others, will be in when they are resurrected: among the just or the unjust?

According to God's Word, the unsaved nations will dwell outside the holy city. And not only will those be made up of the unsaved nations, but also those who believed yet fell away.

About the unprofitable servant...

Matt 25:28-30
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news, but Lord Jesus showed the unprofitable servant that buried the one talent he was given will be cast to the "outer darkness" where the unsaved will be. That place is outside the gates of the beloved city of Revelation 22:14-15.

According to you, what will be the purpose of the resurrection of these people? What the end of them?

Not according to me, but according God's Word, the unsaved will be taught The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and... the difference between the holy and profane, and the clean and unclean, during Christ's "thousand years" reign. That is actually one of the main jobs of the Hebrew priest. For those saved and represent Christ's elect in that future time, they will be priests and kings, and judges over the peoples. Teaching will be one of their main jobs in that time.

Much of this detail is written in the Old Testament prophets, especially in chapters like Ezekiel 44. The Ezekiel 40 through 47 chapters are all future Millennial reign chapters.

 

[ElieG12]

Too many words, and not enough biblical proves ... Sorry, I can not take seriously anything that is not directly and clearly connected to biblical passages.

Anyway, I don't really see the answer to my question in your post. Thanks for trying, though.

 

[Davy]

Too many words, and not enough biblical connections ... Sorry, I can not take seriously anything that is not connected directed and clearly to biblical passages.

Anyway, I don't really see the answer to my question in your post. Thanks for trying, though.

I really don't care... if you don't want to stay... in God's Word, and would rather make up a bunch of EXCUSES NOT to go into God's Word for yourself and check me out. That's your choice.

But I won't allow you milly-mouthed types to slander my work in Christ Jesus with 'trying' to help your understanding in His Word. So just go on about your vain business, and try your mockery on someone else.

 

[ElieG12]

Oh, calm down. Don't get angry with me for telling you that you may need to use more the biblical passages you think support your understanding.

I was asking about the good-hearted people who have died and did not know anything about Jesus. I read your posts, but I did not understand very well what you are trying to say ... like for example: where will people resurrect according to your understanding?

I agree with some of the things you said, but I do not understand some of them, so that is why I asked you about those who did not know about Jesus. I think you are talking about the heaven for every good person ... but not really understand very well what you mean. Sometimes the more words I use the less I transmit what I mean ... maybe because of that you too.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Here is what many brethren have missed in their Bible study about the coming resurrection on the day of Christ's future return.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

That above Scripture by Lord Jesus is rarely referred to by those who wrongly teach 2 different times in Revelation 20 for the raising of the dead.

Granted that mere mention of the ordinal "first" in "first resurrection" automatically infers at least one more resurrection. And bypassing what Lord Jesus said above in John 5:28-29 ought to confuse those thinking that. It often does, so they just bypass John 5 altogether. Yet what is Lord Jesus showing with that John 5:28-29 Scripture?

Jesus revealed that on the day of His future coming, ALL... the 'dead' are raised.

That means, there is NO second raising of the dead later. On the day of His coming, the dead are raised to... what kind of body? Well, what type... of body did Apostle Paul teach that the resurrection is? "Oh no", some might say, "Paul was ONLY speaking of those in Christ there!" No, that's wrong. Paul was pointing to the type body of the resurrection, period.

Now what did Lord Jesus say again, in John 5:29 about the dead being resurrected, who all it includes?

John 5:29
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Do you notice that word "resurrection" there brethren, for those wicked? How can that be, IF what Paul was teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 about the resurrection is meant ONLY for those in Christ Jesus? Obviously there's a problem with men's interpretation, they are missing something that Paul was teaching about the resurrection, because Jesus showed the wicked will receive a RESURRECTION BODY also on that day!

So what is it that men's traditions are missing about this? And believe me, what is most often taught about the resurrection is men's traditions, and not in-depth Bible study Truth. The status quo line from the seminaries is what pastors under Church organizations are under, so that is what you get. But there's a lot missing which God's Word reveals that they don't teach...

Damnation was likely not the best word to use in translation here Davy. The original word there meant judgment basically. These resurrected ones did not serve Jehovah during their lives, therefore did not store up any treasures in heaven. There are many reasons why this is the case, it might simply be that they had never had the opportunity to know God. Billions have never had that opportunity. So during the millennial reign of Christ, they will learn the requirements for everlasting life, and make an educated choice.

 

[Davy]

Damnation was likely not the best word to use in translation here Davy.

I think that word gets the point across nicely, so KUDOS King James translators!!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes it makes me wonder about the heavenly Jerusalem above and the gates that never close.

Hebrews 12:22
An Unshakable Kingdom
…21 The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion,to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23 in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,… 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.…

 

[Robert Gwin]

I think that word gets the point across nicely, so KUDOS King James translators!!

Let me ask you, what do you think damnation is Davy?

 

[Davy]

Let me ask you, what do you think damnation is Davy?

Depends on what timing it is used for. For the day of Christ's future return, it means the unsaved NOT of the "first resurrection", and not of His Church that will reign with Him for the future "thousand years".

For after... the "thousand years", it means the unsaved that are tested by the devil, and then judged either to Christ's Salvation along with the "first resurrection" elect, or to the "lake of fire" and destroyed along with the devil, the abode of hell, and the concept of death, all as written at the end of Rev.20.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Depends on what timing it is used for. For the day of Christ's future return, it means the unsaved NOT of the "first resurrection", and not of His Church that will reign with Him for the future "thousand years".

For after... the "thousand years", it means the unsaved that are tested by the devil, and then judged either to Christ's Salvation along with the "first resurrection" elect, or to the "lake of fire" and destroyed along with the devil, the abode of hell, and the concept of death, all as written at the end of Rev.20.

Actually Davy I do not disagree with any of this, it is quite accurate, but one difference from those of the first resurrection, those who survive after the devil and his are destroyed, will not have immortality as those of the first resurrection have.

 

[Davy]

Actually Davy I do not disagree with any of this, it is quite accurate, but one difference from those of the first resurrection, those who survive after the devil and his are destroyed, will not have immortality as those of the first resurrection have.

All... souls that come to the new heavens and a new earth timing will be in Christ's Salvation, and make up His Church, and have Eternal Life through Christ Jesus.

So I don't know who you've been listening to, but even the unsaved that convert to Lord Jesus during His "thousand years" reign, and overcome Satan's final test, will put on immortality just like those of the "first resurrection". The implied 2nd resurrection after the GWT Judgment is to the same type as the 1st resurrection in Christ Jesus.

 

[Robert Gwin]

All... souls that come to the new heavens and a new earth timing will be in Christ's Salvation, and make up His Church, and have Eternal Life through Christ Jesus.

So I don't know who you've been listening to, but even the unsaved that convert to Lord Jesus during His "thousand years" reign, and overcome Satan's final test, will put on immortality just like those of the "first resurrection". The implied 2nd resurrection after the GWT Judgment is to the same type as the 1st resurrection in Christ Jesus.

Do you have scriptural support sir? See why I say it? I really do not understand why those of the first resurrection is recorded in the Bible as being immortal really. Since perfect Adam and Eve sinned, and 1/3 of the perfect angels sinned, what prevents them from sinning after all is said and done. Perhaps I will understand it one day Davy.

 

[Davy]

Do you have scriptural support sir?

Well yes, of course. But it requires understanding God's Word in its simplicity, and not heeding men's traditions.

Isa 25:6-9
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
KJV

Did you not realize that Isaiah 25 Scripture... is where Apostle Paul was quoting from in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 about death being swallowed up in victory? Do you not know what that, "face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations", is? It is about the flesh vail upon all peoples of this present world time.

See why I say it? I really do not understand why those of the first resurrection is recorded in the Bible as being immortal really. Since perfect Adam and Eve sinned, and 1/3 of the perfect angels sinned, what prevents them from sinning after all is said and done. Perhaps I will understand it one day Davy.

Yet those of the "first resurrection" are... made immortal, and it is about the condition of their souls. If you don't understand that per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54, then it means you do not understand how God created us for this present world in order to receive or reject Faith on His Son's death and resurrection so as to receive His Promise of eternal life. Paul explained that concept in 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 also, but it's pointed to specifically in the Greek...

Firstly, things that Lord Jesus said about 'spiritual' death has to be understood...

Matt 23:27-28
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
KJV

Lord Jesus used the idea of burial tombs to represent the spiritually dead blind scribes and Pharisees who rejected Him and wanted to murder Him. They were alive in their flesh, but inside their souls were 'spiritually dead' having rejected The Savior.

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
KJV

Even more to the point, Jesus used the idea of actual graves to point to the scribes and Pharisee's false traditions and rejection of Him and His Salvation.

Thus there is the idea of a soul being under 'spiritual death' even while alive in the flesh walking upon this earth. So are all alive on earth that reject Jesus Christ as their Savior. Their souls will NOT put on immorality when Jesus returns in the future, but their flesh will be cast off and reveal their "spiritual body", a body of incorruption, and the "image of the heavenly".

In 1 Corinthians 15:53-54, translate those 4 Greek words Paul used for, "corruptible", "incorruption", "this mortal", and "immortality" (KJV). It is pointing to TWO CHANGES that must happen to have eternal Life through Christ Jesus, not just one change of our flesh corruptible body to the spiritual body of incorruption. The soul must put on immortality through Christ too, i.e., the idea of being "born again" by The Spirit.

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
KJV

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well yes, of course. But it requires understanding God's Word in its simplicity, and not heeding men's traditions.

Isa 25:6-9
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
KJV

Did you not realize that Isaiah 25 Scripture... is where Apostle Paul was quoting from in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 about death being swallowed up in victory? Do you not know what that, "face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations", is? It is about the flesh vail upon all peoples of this present world time.


Yet those of the "first resurrection" are... made immortal, and it is about the condition of their souls. If you don't understand that per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54, then it means you do not understand how God created us for this present world in order to receive or reject Faith on His Son's death and resurrection so as to receive His Promise of eternal life. Paul explained that concept in 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 also, but it's pointed to specifically in the Greek...

Firstly, things that Lord Jesus said about 'spiritual' death has to be understood...

Matt 23:27-28
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
KJV

Lord Jesus used the idea of burial tombs to represent the spiritually dead blind scribes and Pharisees who rejected Him and wanted to murder Him. They were alive in their flesh, but inside their souls were 'spiritually dead' having rejected The Savior.

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
KJV

Even more to the point, Jesus used the idea of actual graves to point to the scribes and Pharisee's false traditions and rejection of Him and His Salvation.

Thus there is the idea of a soul being under 'spiritual death' even while alive in the flesh walking upon this earth. So are all alive on earth that reject Jesus Christ as their Savior. Their souls will NOT put on immorality when Jesus returns in the future, but their flesh will be cast off and reveal their "spiritual body", a body of incorruption, and the "image of the heavenly".

In 1 Corinthians 15:53-54, translate those 4 Greek words Paul used for, "corruptible", "incorruption", "this mortal", and "immortality" (KJV). It is pointing to TWO CHANGES that must happen to have eternal Life through Christ Jesus, not just one change of our flesh corruptible body to the spiritual body of incorruption. The soul must put on immortality through Christ too, i.e., the idea of being "born again" by The Spirit.

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
KJV

Isa 25 is not immortality, but the first death is no more at that point sir Heb 9:27

I said I did not understand it, not that I disagree with it, if God says it in His word, I believe it.

With Adams sin, he became spiritually dead at that point, his offspring inherited it. Jesus was provided as a ransom to offset what Adam lost, those who are conscious of their spiritual need of course is blessed, especially so with the born again Christians Paul was referring to, but spiritual life simply means a favored position with God sir. It is not being used as a synonym for Everlasting life that if promised to God's people which is in the future for most of us.

 

[-Phil]

So what is it that men's traditions are missing about this? And believe me,

Inspecting what ‘the flesh’, ‘the body’ actually is.. as compared to believing each other, all that’s found is nothing was missing.

 

[Davy]

Isa 25 is not immortality, but the first death is no more at that point sir Heb 9:27

I said I did not understand it, not that I disagree with it, if God says it in His word, I believe it.

With Adams sin, he became spiritually dead at that point, his offspring inherited it. Jesus was provided as a ransom to offset what Adam lost, those who are conscious of their spiritual need of course is blessed, especially so with the born again Christians Paul was referring to, but spiritual life simply means a favored position with God sir. It is not being used as a synonym for Everlasting life that if promised to God's people which is in the future for most of us.

The Isaiah 25:7-8 verses are specifically about the 'change' at the 'twinkling of an eye' that Paul was pointing to that will happen on the "last trump", which is the 7th Trumpet of Rev.11. That is the "day of the Lord" and is when Jesus comes to gather His faithful Church.

For those of the "first resurrection" (those in Christ), that means eternal Life, and thus "this mortal" (soul) putting on "immortality". It does NOT mean the wicked dead are raised to flesh bodies and suffer flesh death (the 1st death) again. Think about it.