Isaiah 43:10

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First off I want to apologize to anyone I might have insulted on this forum. I won't give excuses, I'm sorry.


I would like to discuss this scripture.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


Now I have recently got banned from a forum because I wrote about Jesus being formed. They believed Jesus was always and never formed and bashed me for using the akjv of the bible.
If I'm not allowed to share my thoughts views beliefs and opinions without being banned please let me know.
Anyways, this is what I said


When a child is born,
There are three births.
The birth of the child,
The birth of the mother,
The birth of the father.



You see When Jesus was born, Father God and The Holy Spirit came forth. Father God came forth from Elohim and The Holy Spirit came forth from Ruah, (The Original Spirit.) Even The Holy Ghost was born from The Ghost. And this all happened when Jesus was formed in the Waters , or as many calls it, "The Trinity" was born.
 
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Robert Gwin

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First off I want to apologize to anyone I might have insulted on this forum. I won't give excuses, I'm sorry.


I would like to discuss this scripture.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


Now I have recently got banned from a forum because I wrote about Jesus being formed. They believed Jesus was always and never formed and bashed me for using the akjv of the bible.
If I'm not allowed to share my thoughts views beliefs and opinions without being banned please let me know.
Anyways, this is what I said


When a child is born,
There are three births.
The birth of the child,
The birth of the mother,
The birth of the father.



You see When Jesus was born, Father God and The Holy Spirit came forth. Father God came forth from Elohim and The Holy Spirit came forth from Ruah, (The Original Spirit.) Even The Holy Ghost was born from The Ghost. And this all happened when Jesus was formed in the Waters , or as many calls it, "The Trinity" was born.
It is a very understandable verse Jason, but better understood if you use an unaltered version that does not change YHWH to Adonai sir. God was addressing His people calling them His witnesses.

Jesus is in fact a created being according to the Bible, unless of course the faithful and true witness is not he Rev 3:14. See also Col 1:15 and Prov 8:22. Although not as understandable, Jn 1:1 was speaking about creation sir, the Beginning was the start of creation, and it was the Word. Jesus is begotten according to the Bible, and was called God's only-begotten son out of all of God's sons because he was personally created by Jehovah alone, as nothing else existed, then everything else was created through the master worker Jesus Pro 8:30, Col 1:16
 
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It is a very understandable verse Jason, but better understood if you use an unaltered version that does not change YHWH to Adonai sir. God was addressing His people calling them His witnesses.

Jesus is in fact a created being according to the Bible, unless of course the faithful and true witness is not he Rev 3:14. See also Col 1:15 and Prov 8:22. Although not as understandable, Jn 1:1 was speaking about creation sir, the Beginning was the start of creation, and it was the Word. Jesus is begotten according to the Bible, and was called God's only-begotten son out of all of God's sons because he was personally created by Jehovah alone, as nothing else existed, then everything else was created through the master worker Jesus Pro 8:30, Col 1:16
I'm glad you pointed out how they changed who is talking here. I usually cross-reference everything but I can't believe I didn't do it to this one. The hebrew text actually says YHWH which I believe YHWH Became Jesus and this is why I believe that because I've been working on translating genesis for myself because I am a true seeker of the truth. Let me share this with you and you tell me your thoughts.

Please note I am not trying to shove what I translated on anyone. Just sharing to discuss.

1 In Beginning, He (YHWH) created, Elohim, for them, He made Heavens and for Her, Lands. 2 And the lands, Was, Become, Formless, and Empty; and Darkness was on the faces of Abyss. Ruah Elohim was brooding over the faces of the Waters. 3 And He (YHWH) said," Elohim, I shall become Light" and I became Light. 4 And I saw Elohim and the Light, agree that She (the Spirit) was good: and I divided Elohim between Light and Darkness.
Genesis 1:1-4
 
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I'm also beginning to believe The word was YHWH because... Let me explain, YH and WH are breathing sounds, I'm sure you know this but i will say it anyways. When you breathe in, you say YH and when you breathe out you say WH. Now everything speaks His name which is the original word, YHWH.
 
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MatthewG

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That is the way I see it, JasontheServent.

In the beginning there was God, who created the heavens and the earth. YHWH created the angels in heaven, and I believe that YHWH when speaking the WORD then spoken created. When YHWH said let there be light. When said to let there be light, light shone forth. YHWH being Spirit, also had what was called the Holy Spirit of God, and YHWH sent his WORD that was made flesh, in which was then named Jesus Christ - the one who created all things.

Take a look at these three verses that the writer of Hebrews wrote to his Jewish audience. Of course now today, I do believe that the Son is no longer on the right hand but one with the Father on the throne known as the Lord God Almighty. - People may differ about that though.

Hebrews 1:1-3​

New International Version​

God’s Final Word: His Son​

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

John 1:1-3

New International Version

The Word Became Flesh​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:14

New International Version

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
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That is the way I see it, JasontheServent.

In the beginning there was God, who created the heavens and the earth. YHWH created the angels in heaven, and I believe that YHWH when speaking the WORD then spoken created. When YHWH said let there be light. When said to let there be light, light shone forth. YHWH being Spirit, also had what was called the Holy Spirit of God, and YHWH sent his WORD that was made flesh, in which was then named Jesus Christ - the one who created all things.

Take a look at these three verses that the writer of Hebrews wrote to his Jewish audience. Of course now today, I do believe that the Son is no longer on the right hand but one with the Father on the throne known as the Lord God Almighty. - People may differ about that though.

Hebrews 1:1-3​

New International Version​

God’s Final Word: His Son​

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

I encourage you to read this webpage in the above link about the NIV. If the NIV translation is your preference, then hey whatever floats your boat but if your using the NIV you deserve to know these things. Again I encourage you to read it, not to change your mind about anything but for you to have a better understanding of the NIV.
 
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MatthewG

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Oh, it is alright friend. I like how simple and easy to read. If you would like a literal greek to English edition a good bible to get would be Young's Literal translation. However those shared scriptures are so profound to showing who God used, to create everything. He used His very own Word. Thank you for even responding to me.
 

MatthewG

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Do you think Jesus would in a sense would be our Father if he makes us children of God, by having faith in him? because of being born again in and through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ we are birthed into new creations, to newness of life by and through the Spirit.

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 
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Do you think Jesus would in a sense would be our Father if he makes us children of God, by having faith in him? because of being born again in and through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ we are birthed into new creations, to newness of life by and through the Spirit.

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Since you read the NIV, I'll use NIV verses, only for you though, cause I don't like the NIV but it is your bible that you use and I dont want to confuse you.

And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven
Mathew 23:9 NIV

For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.
Matthew 12:50 NIV


These two scriptures are the words of Jesus and He says there is only one Father and in the next scripture He calls us brothers, sisters, and mothers not sons and daughters or children or Fathers.

As far as Isaiah 9:6 which you used. Here is a little insight into that scripture. Some translations say Eternal Father and some translate to Father of Eternity.

You see Father of eternity and eternal father are not the same. So in Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is called the Father of Eternity and I believe that is right because again the two scriptures I started out with is Jesus speaking himself, and to say it translates to eternal father would be to contradict Jesus' own words. Now translating it to father of eternity does not go against Jesus professing The Eternal Father and not professing that He himself is the eternal Father. So to speak Eternity is the child of Jesus.
 
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Davy

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First off I want to apologize to anyone I might have insulted on this forum. I won't give excuses, I'm sorry.


I would like to discuss this scripture.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


Now I have recently got banned from a forum because I wrote about Jesus being formed. They believed Jesus was always and never formed and bashed me for using the akjv of the bible.
If I'm not allowed to share my thoughts views beliefs and opinions without being banned please let me know.
Anyways, this is what I said


When a child is born,
There are three births.
The birth of the child,
The birth of the mother,
The birth of the father.



You see When Jesus was born, Father God and The Holy Spirit came forth. Father God came forth from Elohim and The Holy Spirit came forth from Ruah, (The Original Spirit.) Even The Holy Ghost was born from The Ghost. And this all happened when Jesus was formed in the Waters , or as many calls it, "The Trinity" was born.
That's just some 'wild'... philosophy you have going on in your mind. It is NOT... God's Word.

The concept of The Godhead in His Word is how God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit, as One, has been from EVERLASTING. That means No beginning, and No end, "Alpha and omega" used to represent the everlasting idea.

When Hebrews speaks of Jesus being made a little lower than the angels for suffering, that is pointing to Jesus' FLESH BODY born through FLESH woman, not His SPIRIT which is EVERLASTING.

If you don't understand that, it means you have succumbed to Jew's false doctrines outside God's Word, because many of them wrongly believe the soul is part of flesh, and thus that Jesus of Nazareth ONLY came into existence when He was born in the flesh through Mary's womb. That old tradition of the Jews is one of the reasons they refuse to believe that Jesus Christ is IMMANUEL "God with us", the very name they were given through Isaiah.
 
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It is a very understandable verse Jason, but better understood if you use an unaltered version that does not change YHWH to Adonai sir. God was addressing His people calling them His witnesses.

Jesus is in fact a created being according to the Bible, unless of course the faithful and true witness is not he Rev 3:14. See also Col 1:15 and Prov 8:22. Although not as understandable, Jn 1:1 was speaking about creation sir, the Beginning was the start of creation, and it was the Word. Jesus is begotten according to the Bible, and was called God's only-begotten son out of all of God's sons because he was personally created by Jehovah alone, as nothing else existed, then everything else was created through the master worker Jesus Pro 8:30, Col 1:16

That's just some 'wild'... philosophy you have going on in your mind. It is NOT... God's Word.

The concept of The Godhead in His Word is how God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit, as One, has been from EVERLASTING. That means No beginning, and No end, "Alpha and omega" used to represent the everlasting idea.

When Hebrews speaks of Jesus being made a little lower than the angels for suffering, that is pointing to Jesus' FLESH BODY born through FLESH woman, not His SPIRIT which is EVERLASTING.

If you don't understand that, it means you have succumbed to Jew's false doctrines outside God's Word, because many of them wrongly believe the soul is part of flesh, and thus that Jesus of Nazareth ONLY came into existence when He was born in the flesh through Mary's womb. That old tradition of the Jews is one of the reasons they refuse to believe that Jesus Christ is IMMANUEL "God with us", the very name they were given through Isaiah.
Firstly, Alpha and Omega mean, first and last. Secondly, I'm not referring to Jesus' birth on earth. I am speaking of when He was formed. Thirdly, In the beginning, was the Spirit, The Holy Spirit has yet to come forth. It was in the formation of Jesus that the Holy Spirit came forth. Lastly, is a question, why is it that the earth is so complex but God isn't?

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Jesus says I am Alpha and Omega, The first formed God, and the last formed God. Father's only begotten
to get even more technical is it's actually YHWH saying this in Isaiah because YHWH became Jesus but Jesus was formed. To go even further, Jesus is YHWH's vessel. Remember Jesus was Almost stoned for calling himself I AM?

didn't mean to tag you, Robert, sorry
 
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ScottA

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First off I want to apologize to anyone I might have insulted on this forum. I won't give excuses, I'm sorry.


I would like to discuss this scripture.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


Now I have recently got banned from a forum because I wrote about Jesus being formed. They believed Jesus was always and never formed and bashed me for using the akjv of the bible.
If I'm not allowed to share my thoughts views beliefs and opinions without being banned please let me know.
Anyways, this is what I said


When a child is born,
There are three births.
The birth of the child,
The birth of the mother,
The birth of the father.



You see When Jesus was born, Father God and The Holy Spirit came forth. Father God came forth from Elohim and The Holy Spirit came forth from Ruah, (The Original Spirit.) Even The Holy Ghost was born from The Ghost. And this all happened when Jesus was formed in the Waters , or as many calls it, "The Trinity" was born.
Rather than the Holy Spirit or Jesus being born, what you are actually seeing is that in the fulness of time they were rather revealed. Thereby confirming the statement, "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

As it is written, "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever." This is the proof-text. The God revealed "yesterday", and the God being revealed "today", and the God which is revealed "forever"--is One God.
 
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Rather than the Holy Spirit or Jesus being born, what you are actually seeing is that in the fulness of time they were rather revealed. Thereby confirming the statement, "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

As it is written, "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever." This is the proof-text. The God revealed "yesterday", and the God being revealed "today", and the God which is revealed "forever"--is One God.
I understand what you are saying but I think what I'm saying is being misread. There is a difference between coming forth and being created.
The holy Spirit was never created, she came forth when Jesus was formed.
 

Charlie24

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First off I want to apologize to anyone I might have insulted on this forum. I won't give excuses, I'm sorry.


I would like to discuss this scripture.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


Now I have recently got banned from a forum because I wrote about Jesus being formed. They believed Jesus was always and never formed and bashed me for using the akjv of the bible.
If I'm not allowed to share my thoughts views beliefs and opinions without being banned please let me know.
Anyways, this is what I said


When a child is born,
There are three births.
The birth of the child,
The birth of the mother,
The birth of the father.



You see When Jesus was born, Father God and The Holy Spirit came forth. Father God came forth from Elohim and The Holy Spirit came forth from Ruah, (The Original Spirit.) Even The Holy Ghost was born from The Ghost. And this all happened when Jesus was formed in the Waters , or as many calls it, "The Trinity" was born.

Do you understand why they banned you? Do you understand that no believer wants to have conversation with someone who believes the Christ was created? Anything you say after this post will not be taken as coming from a believer of Scripture.

John plainly told us that the "Word" was with God and was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

No one can understand how this took place, but we take the Scripture as being true, that whatever Christ was before the incarnation, we know He was God first.

Because you can't understand how this took place, you must bring it down to your understanding and make Christ a created being. This is not faith, the foundation on which one is reconciled to God. This is unbelief, refusing to take the Word of God for what it says.

This belief is the opposite on which Christian principles are established, so how can you wonder as to why this belief is rejected?
 
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Do you understand why they banned you? Do you understand that no believer wants to have conversation with someone who believes the Christ was created? Anything you say after this post will not be taken as coming from a believer of Scripture.

John plainly told us that the "Word" was with God and was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

No one can understand how this took place, but we take the Scripture as being true, that whatever Christ was before the incarnation, we know He was God first.

Because you can't understand how this took place, you must bring it down to your understanding and make Christ a created being. This is not faith, the foundation on which one is reconciled to God. This is unbelief, refusing to take the Word of God for what it says.

This belief is the opposite on which Christian principles are established, so how can you wonder as to why this belief is rejected?
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15

YHWH is the word the became Jesus bro.... You know there is too much hostility and attacks for me to respond to you even further sir
btw I never said he was created I said when he was formed
 
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Charlie24

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He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15

YHWH is the word the became Jesus bro.... You know there is too much hostility and attacks for me to respond to you even further sir

The hostility is the natural course when you claim that the Saviour of the world was created.

If you read the next verse, Paul explains "the firstborn of all creation."

Col. 1:16
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

He is the firstborn of creation in that He is the Creator of all things.
 
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The hostility is the natural course when you claim that the Saviour of the world was created.

If you read the next verse, Paul explains "the firstborn of all creation."

Col. 1:16
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

He is the firstborn of creation in that He is the Creator of all things.
Buddy, you're still only seeing what you want to see. I NEVER SAID Jesus was created, I said He was formed, firstborn of all creation.

explain to me how he can be the firstborn of creation and the creator of creation?

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16 nkjv
 
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Charlie24

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The hostility is the natural course when you claim that the Saviour of the world was created.

If you read the next verse, Paul explains "the firstborn of all creation."

Col. 1:16
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

He is the firstborn of creation in that He is the Creator of all things.

I forget who I'm talking to! Let me make it clear.

When Paul said "the firstborn over all creation" he is referring to "the first cause" of all creation.

That's because Jesus Christ is the Creator, whom you claim is created!
 

ScottA

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I understand what you are saying but I think what I'm saying is being misread. There is a difference between coming forth and being created.
The holy Spirit was never created, she came forth when Jesus was formed.
Again, that is just a misunderstanding of terms or language presentation verses truth.

The [Holy] Spirit has been written of since the beginning. And Jesus too was not "formed" except in lowly flesh, which was rather His "appearing", but was "before the foundation of the world." All of which is written.
 

Charlie24

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I forget who I'm talking to! Let me make it clear.

When Paul said "the firstborn over all creation" he is referring to "the first cause" of all creation.

That's because Jesus Christ is the Creator, whom you claim is created!.

Buddy, you're still only seeing what you want to see. I NEVER SAID Jesus was created, I said He was formed, firstborn of all creation.

explain to me how he can be the firstborn of creation and the creator of creation?

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16 nkjv

No one would ban you for claiming that Christ was formed from one state of being to another (incarnation) if that is what you meant.

But I don't think that is what you mean by "formed."