How do you become a child of God?
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Yeah it is evidence...but not a requirement for receiving eternal life. Without baptism.. a believer still has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their spirit.
That's totally false and contrary to scripture. You receive the gift of the Holy Ghost upon baptism into Christ, not before. The below is very clear.
Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Hold up! You are referring to the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer .. calling that baptism right?
I'm talking about immersion in water baptism.. as a response to having already been indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
The scripture is clear. Upon water baptism you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Not in reverse. Read further in the scripture down to it's end at verse 47. You'll also see that's the same time your sins are removed and the Lord adds you to his body which is the church. It all happens simultaneously. Your sins are removed, you receive the Holy Ghost, you're added to the church thereby becoming a child of God and a Christian. Pretty simple and very clear.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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God's biological progeny is 100% sinless. (1John 3:9)
Born-again Christians are not 100% sinless. (1John 1:8-10)
So then, born-again Christians are not God's biological progeny.
Although born-again Christians are God's posterity (1John 3:1-2)
they are not His direct descendants because thus far God has only the
one. (John 1:14, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)
So then, people who've undergone the Spirit birth spoken of by John 3:3-8
aren't God's biological progeny, instead they're His handiwork, i.e. His creations
(2Cor 5:17, Eph 2:10, Eph 4:24, Col 3:10)
After undergoing regeneration, the newbies are then inducted into God's
home by the process of adoption. (Gal 4:4-5, Eph 1:5)
Adoption gives children the right to identify themselves by their dad's name,
plus a spot in his family tree, and a right to inherit just the same as children
born in the home. (Rom 8:17)
Think about that for a second: can you just imagine the unbelievable good
fortune of given a place in God's genealogy, and accounted among His heirs?
I started off as a Catholic; influenced to be afraid of God and dread going to
Hell. Now look where I am: I have a place all set and waiting for me around
the table in God's home along with a bottomless Trust fund (so to speak).
_
God's biological progeny is 100% sinless. (1John 3:9)
Born-again Christians are not 100% sinless. (1John 1:8-10)
So then, born-again Christians are not God's biological progeny.
Although born-again Christians are God's posterity (1John 3:1-2)
they are not His direct descendants because thus far God has only the
one. (John 1:14, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)
So then, people who've undergone the Spirit birth spoken of by John 3:3-8
aren't God's biological progeny, instead they're His handiwork, i.e. His creations
(2Cor 5:17, Eph 2:10, Eph 4:24, Col 3:10)
After undergoing regeneration, the newbies are then inducted into God's
home by the process of adoption. (Gal 4:4-5, Eph 1:5)
Adoption gives children the right to identify themselves by their dad's name,
plus a spot in his family tree, and a right to inherit just the same as children
born in the home. (Rom 8:17)
Think about that for a second: can you just imagine the unbelievable good
fortune of given a place in God's genealogy, and accounted among His heirs?
I started off as a Catholic; influenced to be afraid of God and dread going to
Hell. Now look where I am: I have a place all set and waiting for me around
the table in God's home along with a bottomless Trust fund (so to speak).
_
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Well thanks for the reply.
So .. some key points here:
1) The church here.. is the church at Jerusalem.. not every believer.
2) Who is being addressed here? An individual or an entire group receiving the Holy Spirit? A group receiving the Spirit is the beginning of a church.. of people who have already been converted. An individual.. that IS eternal salvation being received.
3) Note that this baptism 'does not put away the filth of the flesh'. At salvation.. it does put away the filth of the flesh. (Not in terms of losing the sin nature.. but having a clean slate in God's eyes)
So.. we are on very different pages here. Some have Holy Spirit baptism at salvation.. where they say the Holy Spirit baptises a believer into the body of Christ.. I don't see that in scripture.. although I don't really have a problem with it.. because what they are calling the body I just call the Family of God. And the Holy Spirit baptising.. I just think it's figurative for what He does in regeneration.
Anyway, 'the church', when it's in regards to a non-specific church.. is a singular term standing for the unit of the local church.. all churches plural.
In Acts-- it's specifically the church at Jerusalem initially.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
Weeell.. baptism is a work. You've got works-based salvation there. That's contradictory to scripture about eternal salvation being seperate from works.
Uh.....you might want to reconsider.....
Acts 10:44......” While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell on all of them that * HEARD* the Word”
They began to speak in tongues which was the evidence that they now possessed the Holy Spirit within them....they got baptized later......
Faith is what Saves......Faith comes by * HEARING* .....Peters Audience Heard.....Peters Audience Believed what they heard .....Then they received the Holy Spirit .....just like anybody else that Hears and Believes....No Baptism had to occur before they received that Spirit that saved them.... “ Faith ( Saving Faith) comes by hearing, hearing by the Word Of God”....
The Apostle Paul was FILLED with the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him and AFTERWARDS he was Baptized with water....
Yeah.. in Acts you have different kinds of works of the Holy Spirit.
When the Holy Spirit empowers a group (which also gets called baptism with the 'baptism of holy fire' for Acts 2).. these are already converted believers.. who would already be filled with the Holy Spirit. So a group receiving the Holy Spirit is not an individual receiving the Holy Spirit. Different works.
Then you do have an individual receiving the Holy Spirit. This is not 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' , although could figuratively be that.. if by Holy Spirit baptism it is meant regeneration aka Titus 2:13.
The big thing is what people are defining as the body of Christ, the church. If you really do an in depth study on 'the church'... it's local every time.
The church is either a 1) specific church being referred to.. or 2) the generic term 'the church' to refer to the local unit.. but not one in particular. Just like 'the school', 'the horse', 'the bar' etc... although a church doesn't need a roof over their head.. it is a group of baptised believers who have covenanted together to carry out the great commission and commandment.
So.. in Acts.. 'souls added to the church'.. that isn't salvation.. that's people becoming members.. already saved people becoming members of the church at Jerusalem.
Just look up the occurrences of church and churches. There are very few occurrences that refer to anything other than a local church.. and the ones that aren't about a local church -- eg.. the assembly of all believers in heaven.. it is still ASSEMBLED.
The assembly in heaven of all believers is yet future also. It isn't a present situation. We don't have that church of all believers yet.
The 'universal, invisible' church.. is foreign to scripture. As is 'the universal, visible' church.
What people call 'the church' with every believer in it.. should be called the Family of God.. and the Kingdom. The body of Christ.. is not the same entity as these.
No person who believe GOD is three persons can be a "child of God". That is like a disfunctional family ...
Those things don't happen as far as God is concerned, only in the imagination of confused people.
Being a child of God, like Jesus is, comes after knowing who God, the Father, really is (John 20:17).
Those things don't happen as far as God is concerned, only in the imagination of confused people.
Being a child of God, like Jesus is, comes after knowing who God, the Father, really is (John 20:17).
Well i don't like the term persons to describe the Trinity.. but the reality of the Trinity is all thru scripture.
The church at Jerusalem wasn't yet the church at Jerusalem until the Jews as that group that was addressed and received the Holy Ghost AFTER their belief, repentance, and water baptism per Acts 2:38. And ad stated, at the point of salvation is where your sins are remitted, you receive the Holy Ghost, NOT gifts of the Spirit which is something different, but rather the indwelling of the Spirit itself, and are added to the body of Christ by the Lord which is the church. It all happens at the same time.
What do you mean "a work"? It's a command that must be obeyed as part of the salvation process. Everything done in the physical body is some kind of work including confessing your belief with the mouth in order to comply with Romans 10:9.
You are not understanding Acts 10 nor Acts 2 which is similar.
In both cases, the spirit fell unilaterally on the apostles in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10, and it did so as a sign, to validate what was happening by that sign. In both cases, the church was established, 1st amongst the Jews at Jerusalem, and then amongst the Gentiles in Caesarea.
In Jerusalem, it fell on the apostles consistent with John's words recorded in Luke 3:16, the prophesy of Joel, and the Lord's words in Luke 24:49.
And in Acts 10, it fell on the Gentiles as a sign. They did not have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost yet, nor were they yet saved, still being in sin, which is why they were immediately baptized in accordance with Acts 2:38-47; for the remission of sins, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (not the miraculous gifts administered via the Spirit), and to be added to the church by the Lord.
These were the only 2 occasions recorded in the scriptures where the Holy Ghost fell unilaterally in a miraculous fashion and not by the laying on of the apostle's hands which is how the miraculous gifts of the Spirit were manifested as noted in other scriptures such as in Acts 19 with the re-baptism of the Ephesians and subsequent laying on of Paul's hands in order for them to receive gifts of the Spirit, or as also noted in Acts 8 in the account of Simon the sorcerer and his wanting to purchase the power that the apostles had by the laying on of their hands.
Jesus is the Son of God, and the children of God are Jesus' brothers (John 20:17).
Being a child of God IS NOT being a child of the trinity.
Who is the Father of the "children of God"? Don't you know it?
1 John 3:1 See what sort of love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are. That is why the world does not know us, because it has not come to know him.
1 Pet. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for YOU, 5 who are being safeguarded by God’s power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time.
If someone has no personal relationship with the One who begets those children, how is it that they will be children of the Father of that family?
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