Read that again slowly and see how absurd it sounds.The verse clearly states that FAITH is given to those who BELIEVE!
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Read that again slowly and see how absurd it sounds.The verse clearly states that FAITH is given to those who BELIEVE!
That's totally false and contrary to scripture. You receive the gift of the Holy Ghost upon baptism into Christ, not before. The below is very clear.Yeah it is evidence...but not a requirement for receiving eternal life. Without baptism.. a believer still has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their spirit.
That's totally false and contrary to scripture. You receive the gift of the Holy Ghost upon baptism into Christ, not before. The below is very clear.
Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The scripture is clear. Upon water baptism you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Not in reverse. Read further in the scripture down to it's end at verse 47. You'll also see that's the same time your sins are removed and the Lord adds you to his body which is the church. It all happens simultaneously. Your sins are removed, you receive the Holy Ghost, you're added to the church thereby becoming a child of God and a Christian. Pretty simple and very clear.Hold up! You are referring to the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer .. calling that baptism right?
I'm talking about immersion in water baptism.. as a response to having already been indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
The scripture is clear. Upon water baptism you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Not in reverse. Read further in the scripture down to it's end at verse 47. You'll also see that's the same time your sins are removed and the Lord adds you to his body which is the church. It all happens simultaneously. Your sins are removed, you receive the Holy Ghost, you're added to the church thereby becoming a child of God and a Christian. Pretty simple and very clear.
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.Well thanks for the reply.
So .. some key points
Well thanks for the reply.
So .. some key points here:
1) The church here.. is the church at Jerusalem.. not every believer.
2) Who is being addressed here? An individual or an entire group receiving the Holy Spirit? A group receiving the Spirit is the beginning of a church.. of people who have already been converted. An individual.. that IS eternal salvation being received.
3) Note that this baptism 'does not put away the filth of the flesh'. At salvation.. it does put away the filth of the flesh. (Not in terms of losing the sin nature.. but having a clean slate in God's eyes)
So.. we are on very different pages here. Some have Holy Spirit baptism at salvation.. where they say the Holy Spirit baptises a believer into the body of Christ.. I don't see that in scripture.. although I don't really have a problem with it.. because what they are calling the body I just call the Family of God. And the Holy Spirit baptising.. I just think it's figurative for what He does in regeneration.
Anyway, 'the church', when it's in regards to a non-specific church.. is a singular term standing for the unit of the local church.. all churches plural.
In Acts-- it's specifically the church at Jerusalem initially.
How do you become a child of God?
Confessing sins, believing Jesus is God, who died and rose again and lived sinless.
Entrusting your eternal salvation with Him.
Jesus then indwells your spirit, through the Holy Spirit. You become eternally saved.
John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24. Romans chapter 10. Romans 5:8.
Baptism isn't part of this. But a right response to having been given this.
Baptism is put in with a number of verses about salvation, because people were baptised by immersion in water straight after belief in Christ. They didn't have to be baptized right then, but people were generally much more zealous then.
The reason people in the scriptures were immediately baptized is because it's the final step in the process of conversion where your sins are washed away, you're added to the body of Christ, and you become a Christian. Without baptism for the remission of sins, it means you're still in your sins and lost. That's why it is relative to salvation. Without it, you're not saved.
,
The scripture is clear. Upon water baptism you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Not in reverse. Read further in the scripture down to it's end at verse 47. You'll also see that's the same time your sins are removed and the Lord adds you to his body which is the church. It all happens simultaneously. Your sins are removed, you receive the Holy Ghost, you're added to the church thereby becoming a child of God and a Christian. Pretty simple and very clear.
Uh.....you might want to reconsider.....
Acts 10:44......” While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell on all of them that * HEARD* the Word”
They began to speak in tongues which was the evidence that they now possessed the Holy Spirit within them....they got baptized later......
Faith is what Saves......Faith comes by * HEARING* .....Peters Audience Heard.....Peters Audience Believed what they heard .....Then they received the Holy Spirit .....just like anybody else that Hears and Believes....No Baptism had to occur before they received that Spirit that saved them.... “ Faith ( Saving Faith) comes by hearing, hearing by the Word Of God”....
The Apostle Paul was FILLED with the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him and AFTERWARDS he was Baptized with water....
Well i don't like the term persons to describe the Trinity.. but the reality of the Trinity is all thru scripture.No person who believe GOD is three persons can be a "child of God". That is like a disfunctional family ...
Those things don't happen as far as God is concerned, only in the imagination of confused people.
Being a child of God, like Jesus is, comes after knowing who God, the Father, really is (John 20:17).
The church at Jerusalem wasn't yet the church at Jerusalem until the Jews as that group that was addressed and received the Holy Ghost AFTER their belief, repentance, and water baptism per Acts 2:38. And ad stated, at the point of salvation is where your sins are remitted, you receive the Holy Ghost, NOT gifts of the Spirit which is something different, but rather the indwelling of the Spirit itself, and are added to the body of Christ by the Lord which is the church. It all happens at the same time.Well thanks for the reply.
So .. some key points here:
1) The church here.. is the church at Jerusalem.. not every believer.
2) Who is being addressed here? An individual or an entire group receiving the Holy Spirit? A group receiving the Spirit is the beginning of a church.. of people who have already been converted. An individual.. that IS eternal salvation being received.
3) Note that this baptism 'does not put away the filth of the flesh'. At salvation.. it does put away the filth of the flesh. (Not in terms of losing the sin nature.. but having a clean slate in God's eyes)
So.. we are on very different pages here. Some have Holy Spirit baptism at salvation.. where they say the Holy Spirit baptises a believer into the body of Christ.. I don't see that in scripture.. although I don't really have a problem with it.. because what they are calling the body I just call the Family of God. And the Holy Spirit baptising.. I just think it's figurative for what He does in regeneration.
Anyway, 'the church', when it's in regards to a non-specific church.. is a singular term standing for the unit of the local church.. all churches plural.
Well thanks for the reply.
So .. some key points here:
1) The church here.. is the church at Jerusalem.. not every believer.
2) Who is being addressed here? An individual or an entire group receiving the Holy Spirit? A group receiving the Spirit is the beginning of a church.. of people who have already been converted. An individual.. that IS eternal salvation being received.
3) NotYou e that this baptism 'does not put away the filth of the flesh'. At salvation.. it does put away the filth of the flesh. (Not in terms of losing the sin nature.. but having a clean slate in God's eyes)
are not understanding Acts 10000
So.. we are on very different pages here. Some have Holy Spirit baptism at salvation.. where they say the Holy Spirit baptises a believer into the body of Christ.. I don't see that in scripture.. although I don't really have a problem with it.. because what they are calling the body I just call the Family of God. And the Holy Spirit baptising.. I just think it's figurative for what He does in regeneration.
Anyway, 'the church', whJerusalem en it's in regards to a non-specific church.. is a singular term standing for the unit of the local church.. all churches plural.
In Acts-- it's specifically the church at Jerusalem initially.
In Acts-- it's specifically the church at Jerusalem initially.
Well thanks for the reply.
So .. some key points here:
1) The church here.. is the church at Jerusalem.. not every believer.
2) Who is being addressed here? An individual or an entire group receiving the Holy Spirit? A group receiving the Spirit is the beginning of a church.. of people who have already been converted. An individual.. that IS eternal salvation being received.
3) Note that this baptism 'does not put away the filth of the flesh'. At salvation.. it does put away the filth of the flesh. (Not in terms of losing the sin nature.. but having a clean slate in God's eyes)
So.. we are on very different pages here. Some have Holy Spirit baptism at salvation.. where they say the Holy Spirit baptises a believer into the body of Christ.. I don't see that in scripture.. although I don't really have a problem with it.. because what they are calling the body I just call the Family of God. And the Holy Spirit baptising.. I just think it's figurative for what He does in regeneration.
Anyway, 'the church', when it's in regards to a non-specific church.. is a singular term
What do you mean "a work"? It's a command that must be obeyed as part of the salvation process. Everything done in the physical body is some kind of work including confessing your belief with the mouth in order to comply with Romans 10:9.Weeell.. baptism is a work. You've got works-based salvation there. That's contradictory to scripture about eternal salvation being seperate from works.
You are not understanding Acts 10 nor Acts 2 which is similar.Uh.....you might want to reconsider.....
Acts 10:44......” While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell on all of them that * HEARD* the Word”
They began to speak in tongues which was the evidence that they now possessed the Holy Spirit within them....they got baptized later......
Faith is what Saves......Faith comes by * HEARING* .....Peters Audience Heard.....Peters Audience Believed what they heard .....Then they received the Holy Spirit .....just like anybody else that Hears and Believes....No Baptism had to occur before they received that Spirit that saved them.... “ Faith ( Saving Faith) comes by hearing, hearing by the Word Of God”....
The Apostle Paul was FILLED with the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him and AFTERWARDS he was Baptized with water....
Jesus is the Son of God, and the children of God are Jesus' brothers (John 20:17).Well i don't like the term persons to describe the Trinity.. but the reality of the Trinity is all thru scripture.