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Oh good grief, you want to teach Torah class to us Christians?All of them? None of them? Some of them?
The ones that was carried over to the New Testament Pat. I know that is very vague, but there a lot of laws in Leviticus. At the very least, since God never changes, we gain insight into His desires through His laws that are no longer in force. One of them is tithing, Christians are admonished to give from the heart, and to give what we vow to give, unlike the law which required 10%All of them? None of them? Some of them?
A very good question. Jesus said:
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
BUT, Paul said:
Galatians 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
So then the only interpretation that makes sense to me is that the man that lives by faith will live by the law implicitly; but the man who explicitly tries to live by the law but fails will be cursed. So then we must try to live by the main principle:
Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
and by living by the main principle, we will be more alike to the Old Testament law without being beholden to it directly
Oh good grief, you want to teach Torah class to us Christians?
EVERYTHING RELATED TO THE OLD COVENANT THERE is DEAD, and God's faithful Church is no longer under that 'old covenant'.
And obviously not everything written in Leviticus is OF the old covenant! So go learn that difference before you trying to hold Torah class on a Christian forum like this one.
My brother, I too am a Christian asking a question about the Old Testament.Oh good grief, you want to teach Torah class to us Christians?
EVERYTHING RELATED TO THE OLD COVENANT THERE is DEAD, and God's faithful Church is no longer under that 'old covenant'.
And obviously not everything written in Leviticus is OF the old covenant! So go learn that difference before you trying to hold Torah class on a Christian forum like this one.
Yes.The ones that was carried over to the New Testament Pat. I know that is very vague, but there a lot of laws in Leviticus. At the very least, since God never changes, we gain insight into His desires through His laws that are no longer in force. One of them is tithing, Christians are admonished to give from the heart, and to give what we vow to give, unlike the law which required 10%
Is there any particular law you might have in mind sir?
All of them! they were replaced by the commands of the new testament. There are some that are identical, but the OT law is not in force, but the NT law even if identical.All of them? None of them? Some of them?
All of them are in effect if a person hasn't been born again. None of them are in effect if a person has been born again. Everyone is under one covenant or the other, but no person can be under both.All of them? None of them? Some of them?
This is the key....understanding that every law God gave his people was based on “love for God and neighbor”.....to understand and apply the principles behind the law, we can do what the Pharisees failed to do. The Law itself was not the important thing.....it was the spirit of the law and the reasons why God gave them, that was important. The law was only important because of the principles upon which it was based....mindless adherence to the words was meaningless.So then the only interpretation that makes sense to me is that the man that lives by faith will live by the law implicitly; but the man who explicitly tries to live by the law but fails will be cursed. So then we must try to live by the main principle:
Matthew 22
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
and by living by the main principle, we will be more alike to the Old Testament law without being beholden to it directly
Great post, filled with wisdom.This is the key....understanding that every law God gave his people was based on “love for God and neighbor”.....to understand and apply the principles behind the law, we can do what the Pharisees failed to do. The Law itself was not the important thing.....it was the spirit of the law and the reasons why God gave them, that was important. The law was only important because of the principles upon which it was based....mindless adherence to the words was meaningless.
You get that when so many others do not....
Thanks Pat for posting that sir. Yes sir, with the exception of putting them to death, homosexuality is not allowed from God, but if you have committed that sin, it is a forgivable sin if you repent. Take particular note of verse 11 Pat: (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) . . .do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.Yes.
Leviticus 20:13 — The New International Version (NIV)
13 “ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Thanks Pat for posting that sir. Yes sir, with the exception of putting them to death, homosexuality is not allowed from God, but if you have committed that sin, it is a forgivable sin if you repent. Take particular note of verse 11 Pat: (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) . . .do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
Yes sir if you struggle with it, please ask Jehovah for help, and know that if you repent and seek Him, you can most definitely be forgiven and declared righteous.
The old covenant was for israel alone and those foreigners who chose to live with them. It was never for Gentile peoples.All of them are in effect if a person hasn't been born again. None of them are in effect if a person has been born again. Everyone is under one covenant or the other, but no person can be under both.
Romans 7:4 says it most clearly: "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God."
I think that what Paul is saying is that nobody can possibly keep all of the law, because we are all born with a sinful nature inherited from Adam. Therefore nobody can be justified by the law - it is a curse to us. If anybody kept all of the law then they would not have sinned and they would not die - they would live forever as long as they continue to keep the law, for death is the punishment for sin. As Paul said, it is evident that nobody has succeeded in doing that! The only way that we can gain eternal life is though faith in Jesus and God.So then the only interpretation that makes sense to me is that the man that lives by faith will live by the law implicitly; but the man who explicitly tries to live by the law but fails will be cursed.
Yes, Jesus is saying that if you obey those two commands, then you will also be obeying all the other laws, because they are all based on love for God and for our neighbours. Jesus also said:So then we must try to live by the main principle:
Matthew 22
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
and by living by the main principle, we will be more alike to the Old Testament law without being beholden to it directly
Yes.
Leviticus 20:13 — The New International Version (NIV)
13 “ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
We should follow Jesus' example, love our neighbours and be forgiving:Leviticus tells us to kill homosexuals. Some say that's "old" law and no longer in force. So are all of the commandments in Leviticus also no longer in force?
The way I look at Biblical Israel - and I believe in reincarnation, so feel free to disagree - is that it was a special kingdom, created for souls that chose to be born into it, in order to live as holy a life as possible and ascend to Heaven; so it had very strict laws regarding morality. Some of these laws had death penalties both to enforce a pure culture, and also to allow those whose minds had become infested with sin to start over in new lives and try again with a fresh slate. Because Israel was favored by God they were held to a standard that ordinary people outside the kingdom would not be expected to live by - or to enforce, because outsiders had not accepted the divine contract to be born into this holy kingdom, they are not yet spiritually ready for these struggles and being harsh on them, they would not understand, and it would only push them away from God and cause them to see His laws as tyrannical rather than as a path for a perfect life, which is what they are intended to be.Thank you but, no, I do NOT "struggle" with homosexuality. I am heterosexual and am married to a sweet woman.
Leviticus tells us to kill homosexuals. Some say that's "old" law and no longer in force. So are all of the commandments in Leviticus also no longer in force?
Yes, I believe that and completely agree. I just wasn't previously clear on WHY some of commandments in Leviticus that deal with morality are no longer applicable while others are.We should follow Jesus' example, love our neighbours and be forgiving:
I don't necessarily believe in reincarnation but I suppose anything is possible. Nobody can tell you for sure that God doesn't reincarnate some souls.The way I look at Biblical Israel - and I believe in reincarnation...