Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

[bbyrd009]

Like Mark Twain said, "It ain't the parts of the Bible I don't understand that bother me; it's the parts I do understand."

perhaps if he had been there to witness some of Ahab's crimes against humanity, or even pause and reflect on how it is that deceiving prophets manifest

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh? If a Mafia boss orders a goon squad to make a hit on one of his rivals, is he innocent of murder just because he didn't get his own hands bloody?

First, the mob boss is not God. Second, God can by his permissive will allow men to be deceived because they have rejected the truth of God’s Word. This does not mean God agrees with lying or it is a part of His higher good will for men to be deceived. It just means that there is a consequence for rejecting the truth. God gives people over to their own darkness if that is what they prefer over and over and over again (Whereby God knows that they will just reject His truth forever). Second, you are making a case against the Most High God and that never ends well for a person. You should be defending God here and not make it look like He is guilty.

Proverbs 21:30 says,
”There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the Lord.”

Your priorities are all wrong and not God focused and in loving God and seeking to make Him the supremacy of your life (Rather than your own limited fallible thinking). I say this because you appeared to agree with Mark Twain in that those parts of the Bible you understand trouble you. I take it to mean this passage troubles you. But it shouldn’t. God is still good and just and He is not condoning evil, but He is merely permitting it and or using it for a greater plan for good. Just as evil men had crucified Jesus, it was for a greater plan for good in it being the salvation of all of mankind (If they so choose to accept the free gift of salvation and to be responsible with that gift). All wicked men and evil angels will have their time at the Judgment. Nobody will escape God and His justice in their doing evil.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not that I want to turn this OCD-like thing into a full blown mess but…


15 Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom [m]was named Shiphrah, and the other [n]was named Puah; 16 and he said, “When you are helping the Hebrew women to give birth and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, then you shall put him to death; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live.” 17 But the midwives [o]feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt had [p]commanded them, but let the boys live. 18 So the king of Egypt called for the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this thing, and let the boys live?” 19 The midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are vigorous and give birth before the midwife [q]can get to them.” 20 So God was good to the midwives, and the people multiplied, and became very [r]mighty. 21 And because the midwives [s]feared God, He [t]established [u]households for them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen! If you're going to lie or use deception (for the right reasons), at least do it honestly! None of this bickering about what the word "is" means, or similar such pathetic attempts to justify what rightly is an act of war just like killing (but often less severe!)

Again, where is the line drawn? When a person justifies lying to save life what other sins are they willing to do so as to save life?
Would you and your family worship the beast if it meant you could save your own lives by having food?

 

[Lambano]

God Himself is not approving of any person or being lying, but God can use deceptive spirits for a greater plan for good that we cannot see.

It's okay to use lies as a means to attain a worthy goal, then? (Don't you love situational ethics?)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The verse that came to my mind concerning it was the one about leaving behind the useless way of life/former conversation we learned from our parents. That whole…subtlety or…craftiness of trying To say something in such a way as to be able to wipe your mouth and then say, I’ve done nothing wrong. Even the thought of trying to lie but at the same time tell the truth is bizarre. When I lie, I lie boldly. Like if you ask me if I like your shirt and I think it looks like Walt Disney threw up on it but I say it’s nice. I’m lying, I know I’m lying, my purpose of heart is to not hurt your feelings with my opinion of the shirt, I don’t suffer in conscience, and I don’t think that’s the liar who will be thrown into outer darkness or be outside the gates.

Uh, no. Proverbs 30:20 would actually apply to you who because you are defending the idea that God was okay with Rahab lying (Which in turn means we can do the same thing and be okay with God). Clever word play is what Jesus did with the Jews many times. Do believe Jesus when He said He would raise up this temple? The Jews were thinking He was referring to the religious temple and not His body. Yet, Jesus did not correct their wrong thinking. Jesus used clever word play here. There is no denying it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's okay to use lies as a means to attain a worthy goal, then? (Don't you love situational ethics?)

No. I don’t believe lying is okay under any circumstance. That is what you appear to believe.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen! If you're going to lie or use deception (for the right reasons), at least do it honestly! None of this bickering about what the word "is" means, or similar such pathetic attempts to justify what rightly is an act of war just like killing (but often less severe!)

Words mean things. When God says not to murder, then God would be contradicting Himself if He told the Israelites to murder. Think.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Uh, no. Proverbs 30:20 would actually apply to you who because you are defending the idea that God was okay with Rahab lying (Which in turn means we can do the same thing and be okay with God). Clever word play is what Jesus did with the Jews many times. Do believe Jesus when He said He would raise up this temple? The Jews were thinking He was referring to the religious temple and not His body. Yet, Jesus did not correct their wrong thinking. Jesus used clever word play here. There is no denying it.

I wouldn’t call that clever word play. I would call it the spirit of the word. Just one more thing for us to disagree about I guess.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

View attachment 28647

No anger here. Just shocked that people cannot discern basic morality.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I wouldn’t call that clever word play. I would call it the spirit of the word. Just one more thing for us to disagree about I guess.

Uh, it is clever word play because they easily misunderstood what He said. Most people would misunderstand Him in that case. It was not obvious that He was referring to His body and yet that is what He was referring to. This proves my point with Rahab in that it would not be wrong for her to use the same technique or tactic. Your burying your head in the sand on this point is merely your blindside of not understanding of what I am talking about. You are being hardened to wanting to defend your point at any cost (even at the expense of Scripture correcting you).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Gnat - camel

Jesus was not talking about the Moral Law in Matthew 23.

Context:

Matthew 23:23-24
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.”

Jesus was talking about how they pay tithes and yet they omitted the weightier matters of the law like judgment, mercy, and faith (Note: Luke 11:42 adds how they also omitted love, as well).

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No anger here. Just shocked that people cannot discern basic morality.

Oh my gosh…is English not your first language? That picture was in NO WAY related to you in the conversation…

 

[Keturah]

Again, where is the line drawn? When a person justifies lying to save life what other sins are they willing to do so as to save life?
Would you and your family worship the beast if it meant you could save your own lives by having food?

Hmmmmm,
This is a real thought to be considered.
How many will do this very thing with it's disastrous end.

God is not mocked nor can he be deceived !


Instead of thinking "HOW" we can save our loved ones, IT IS A MATTER OF TRUST...


Do you trust God or the arm of flesh?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh my gosh…is English not your first language? That picture was in NO WAY related to you in the conversation…

My apologies if you did not direct the meme towards me. But I believe we as Christians should seek to edify one another and not to bite and devour one another. We can agree to disagree in love on this topic. I am fine with that. But I will fight to defend the faith because of my love for the LORD, His good ways, and His Holy Word.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hmmmmm,
This is a real thought to be considered.
How many will do this very thing with it's disastrous end.

God is not mocked nor can he be deceived !


Instead of thinking "HOW" we can save our loved ones, IT IS A MATTER OF TRUST...


Do you trust God or the arm of flesh?

We should always trust God and His Word by faith even when it may not always make sense to us at first. Granted, we do have to make sure that we are believing God’s Word correctly, though. High Calvinists don’t even believe in preaching the gospel because God unconditionally elects those who are His. This is contrary to Scripture (of course). Many Christians today believe they can sin and still be saved on some level, as well. We are living in dark times indeed. This thread is in part to show where a believer truly stands. Will they justify sin to save lives? I don’t believe the Lord God who is good, holy, and loving would want us to sin so as to save life. I believe the Father wants us to imitate His Son Jesus Christ and our Lord never justified sin ever under any circumstance.

 

[Moses_the_younger]

Words mean things. When God says not to murder, then God would be contradicting Himself if He told the Israelites to murder. Think.

Then take your own advice and think. If it wasn't murder for the Israelites to kill the inhabitants of Jericho because God would be contradicting Himself, and God commended Rahab for her act when she lied to the inhabitants of Jericho, then it wasn't lying for her to lie to the inhabitants of Jericho. You are not consistent even within your own reasoning.

In our language, we have a word for legal/lawful killing (as in warfare), and a word for illegal killing (as in murder). We have no such word for legalised lying (as in warfare), but it follows that if legalised killing in warfare can be justified, how much moreso lying in warfare? Think of Rahab as a spy. She committed espionage for the Israelites, as the very spies she saved were doing. Does that sit better with your sense of piety?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My apologies if you did not direct the meme towards me. But I believe we as Christians should seek to edify one another and not to bite and devour one another. We can agree to disagree in love on this topic. I am fine with that. But I will fight to defend the faith because of my love for the LORD, His good ways, and His Holy Word.

Yes, well, the meme was NOT intended to bite and devour a single soul, not even one.
It was in regards to talk of someones shirt being loud and bright, with too many colors and embellishments, which was Conveyed by the phrase: “looks like Walt Disney threw up.” The meme of Donald Duck was in response to someone’s reply that a shirt looking like “Walt Disney threw up” might make poor Walt angry. Since Walt DREW Donald Duck.
If you had actually read the conversation, that lengthy explanation would not be necessary. (Unless English was not your first language.)

Im not even sure how to have conversation with someone who doesn’t even READ the conversation. It’s an odd place to find myself in.

It’s a little bit arrogant to just assume, without even reading and following the conversation, that someone is talking about or biting you. That anything and everything said is about you.

 

[Moses_the_younger]

Again, where is the line drawn? When a person justifies lying to save life what other sins are they willing to do so as to save life?
Would you and your family worship the beast if it meant you could save your own lives by having food?

We don't live in Old Testament times anymore. Where in the New Testament does God command the Christians to smite their enemies? Did Christians lie to smuggle bibles into Communist countries?

The line is drawn in love. The two commandments: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul. And love your neighbour as yourself.

I'm not sure Christians will be around to worship the beast. But even if they are, I'm not sure the beast will be so easily tricked by false worship. Hence the requirement to receive the mark. And hence the warning from God to mankind not to take it, or be damned.

 

[quietthinker]

We can be certain that if Jesus is God revealed, lying and murder are not part of his game.

Now regarding the accounts we have in the O.T. of genocide attributed to Gods orders, floods to drown people and fires to burn them or even language like bathing your feet in the blood of your enemies, as if it were a good thing...there is something amiss, either in how we understand or who the writers thought were responsible for these things.....as we see demonstrated in the story of Job who never knew it wasn't God putting him through the wringer.

One thing is certain, this behaviour taken at face value and attributed to God is not the God Jesus came to reveal.

We call the scriptures the word of God when in fact it is the account of the writers experiencing God through their lens.

THE Word of God is Jesus as clearly stated in the first chapter of John's Gospel. We further have the voice from the cloud on the Mount of Transfiguration instructing us to 'listen him' and again at Jesus' baptism.
In other words, Jesus's approach, his whole reality trumps anything preceding accounts of God's character.

....and finally, if Lucifer managed to bring billions of unfallen angels over to his side.....angels who where in the service of God for who knows how long, then he has well and truly taken humanity by the short and curly's by painting God with a picture of himself.....even Christians.