That “Old Man!”

[Netchaplain]

The days we feel empty, and all around everything seems meaningless, and it’s difficult to find something to care about, realize this is just the “old man.” You can’t get use to this reoccurrence, and all that can be done is to just wait it out until it passes; yes it will pass regardless of how long it takes.

But know this; this trial is also “for good to those who love Him” (Ro 8:28), as all things are. The fact that the old man (sin nature) is allowed to indwell saints and act upon its own to distract is a testament to the power of God to sanctify (separate) the believer from the sin and its source—the old man (we “are not in the flesh” or sin nature – Ro 8:9)!

Every time a believer endures with patience (Rom 12:12; 2Th 3:5) there is something being taught and learned. It is that we can always entrust all to God (1Pe 5:7) until our “care” comes back; then keep trusting God. Thankfully, most of the time we are not tested is this way, but you can be assured, it will always return for testing.

At this time the devil likes getting in his licks, to make us feel guilty; but there is nothing to feel guilty about, for there’s nothing we intentionally chose to do wrong, and we realize it’s just a distraction!

The test is difficult but the resolution is simple—we just know that it’s God’s way of causing us to continue to trust the Lord Jesus’ for the expiation of our sins and its source (old man). You see, as we feel the emptiness of this type of trial, is causes us to exercise our faith in the atonement of Christ!

 

[Randy Kluth]

The days we feel empty, and all around everything seems meaningless, and it’s difficult to find something to care about, realize this is just the “old man.” You can’t get use to this reoccurrence, and all that can be done is to just wait it out until it passes; yes it will pass regardless of how long it takes.

But know this; this trial is also “for good to those who love Him” (Ro 8:28), as all things are. The fact that the old man (sin nature) is allowed to indwell saints and act upon its own to distract is a testament to the power of God to sanctify (separate) the believer from the sin and its source—the old man (we “are not in the flesh” or sin nature – Ro 8:9)!

Every time a believer endures with patience (Rom 12:12; 2Th 3:5) there is something being taught and learned. It is that we can always entrust all to God (1Pe 5:7) until our “care” comes back; then keep trusting God. Thankfully, most of the time we are not tested is this way, but you can be assured, it will always return for testing.

At this time the devil likes getting in his licks, to make us feel guilty; but there is nothing to feel guilty about, for there’s nothing we intentionally chose to do wrong, and we realize it’s just a distraction!

The test is difficult but the resolution is simple—we just know that it’s God’s way of causing us to continue to trust the Lord Jesus’ for the expiation of our sins and its source (old man). You see, as we feel the emptiness of this type of trial, is causes us to exercise our faith in the atonement of Christ!

Amen. I'll give you the benefit of a lifetime as a Christian, because God is so non-earthly that it's sometimes difficult to 2nd-guess Him. In fact, we cannot anticipate what He will do unless He tells us. We can only count on His faithfulness.

So what I've seen and believe is that there is no way to tell how much God will have us endure to prove we really do love Him. We may wait for years, or suffer serious setbacks to our serenity on this earth. But when we persevere, whatever we go through, we bring glory to Him, because we show that we really do love Him for what and who He is.

Many start off on this path of Christianity, and end up just following a dead routine. Few there are who persevere until they show that they are going to walk with Him to the end.

We mustn't ever give up. He never gave up on us, though at times it seems like it. We just have to remember who and what He is, the source of all true human virtue.

He's the source of true love in the universe. And we can easily confirm this by seeing that everything He did in creation was for the purpose of love. So we have to never tire on dying to the "Old Man," as you call it. We have to lay aside our selfishness, our envy, our impatience, and our self-will. We just have to trust that in following Him He wishes the best for us, because that's just who He is!

 

[Netchaplain]

So what I've seen and believe is that there is no way to tell how much God will have us endure to prove we really do love Him.

Like what you said. Concerning our trials, I don't see them as pass or fail testing but testing that always strengthens our faith. Of course God knows how we love Him, so there's no proving there.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Like what you said. Concerning our trials, I don't see them as pass or fail testing but testing that always strengthens our faith. Of course God knows how we love Him, so there's no proving there.

We may have slight differences here, but I want to make sure you don't misunderstand me. I don't believe that God measures our worth by taking us through greater and greater trials. That would make God a cruel god!

We aren't supposed to show our "spiritual superiority" by climbing higher and higher mountains of suffering, simply to prove our worth! In the Early Church and in the monasteries, men of God thought they had to deprive themselves in greater and greater ways, to prove their rejection of the world in favor of God. But God hasn't asked such a thing of us! We can bring glory to God in our wealth as well as in our poverty.

But I do think that God uses the fact Satan has led mankind to fall, and then measures who really loves Him by acknowledging those who are willing to stay with Him through these trials. Furthermore, I think God gets unique glory in this situation. Whereas before the Fall God would've gotten glory from us simply by our choosing to eat from the Tree of Life and choosing to live forever in fellowship with Him, now He gets unique glory in the many trials we each experience as individuals determining to persevere in faith with Him.

Some are raised up with horrible parents or in horrible countries, and suffer all kinds of defects and disabilities as a result. But in overcoming these things, avoiding hate and bitterness, we bring glory to God in these kinds of trials, as God sees fit to let us suffer. It's not that God wants to see us suffer but that He has pronounced a curse upon mankind and wishes for us to persevere in faith no matter what we go through as individuals.

Some suffer the loss of loved ones. Some suffer sickness. Some suffer deprivation. This is not divine hostility, but the result of the Fall. God simply lets us suffer that, even in our innocence. But He gets great glory, I believe, when we refuse to let these things diminish our faith and love for God. And I believe we each have unique callings to express God's glory in the hostile and negative places we find ourselves. Rather than cower in shame, for example, in our poverty, we can take pride in our continued faith that God will meet our needs and supply us with provisions. God gets glory, I believe, when we give up our bitterness and complaining, choosing instead to "joy in the God of our Salvation."

 

[Netchaplain]

We may have slight differences here, but I want to make sure you don't misunderstand me. I don't believe that God measures our worth by taking us through greater and greater trials. That would make God a cruel god!

True, it wouldn't be right for God to take His children through difficulties hardness for the wrong reason. He does it for our good, as He does everything. There's never a time that He is not using everything for our "good" (Ro 8:28). There's only one measure God uses to evaluates believers--the Lord Jesus; which is a good thing for us!

 

[Randy Kluth]

True, it wouldn't be right for God to take His children through difficulties hardness for the wrong reason. He does it for our good, as He does everything. There's never a time that He is not using everything for our "good" (Ro 8:28). There's only one measure God uses to evaluates believers--the Lord Jesus; which is a good thing for us!

Probably a better way to describe it is if God wrote a book for each of us as individuals. In each book God tells the story of success or failure. As an author He expresses His sense of glory in the individual who takes his own unique circumstances and proves his love for God is greater than his wish to rebel against those negative circumstances.

Like the mountain climber who revels in reaching the top of a tall mountain, the one who suffers his own negative circumstances and yet perseveres in his faith brings glory to the God who wrote that plotline for him.

When we suffer negative circumstances in our life we have an opportunity to bring glory to God who wishes to see the plot develop with us winning in faith over the tendency to get bitter, complain, and ultimately turn from the love of God. Others may see us as failures, but God sees us as victors.

Some may see us as having received the "short straw" in life. But God sees the story unfold in a way in which we are able to bring Him glory. It isn't about us as much as it is about Him. If it was about us primarily, we wouldn't choose to write the book that way! Since it is really about His wish for our lives, our cooperation with Him, and our willingness to endure our circumstances, does bring Him glory!

 

[Netchaplain]

Probably a better way to describe it is if God wrote a book for each of us as individuals. In each book God tells the story of success or failure. As an author He expresses His sense of glory in the individual who takes his own unique circumstances and proves his love for God is greater than his wish to rebel against those negative circumstances.

There is nothing but failure with false professors (apostates or hypocrites). These have a temporary show of Christianity, but since it is not in Christ (excluding the babe in Christ who will mature) they eventually depart from what they though is Christianity.

A true Christian will continue in the faith and grow by God's "work" (Phl 2:13 - can't avoid it). The apostate always departs from the doctrine of faith, not having saving faith!

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is nothing but failure with false professors (apostates or hypocrites). These have a temporary show of Christianity, but since it is not in Christ (excluding the babe in Christ who will mature) they eventually depart from what they though is Christianity.

A true Christian will continue in the faith and grow by God's "work" (Phl 2:13 - can't avoid it). The apostate always departs from the doctrine of faith, not having saving faith!

Yes, but there are various degrees of success and failure with individuals. I personally believe it is more than just a success or failure contest indicating Salvation or Damnation. It is even beyond this core issue a matter of God's obtaining glory from the creatures He made to live in His image.

Even those who reject eternal life with God are able to perform some acts of goodness. They will be consigned to Outer Darkness, but they still bring glory to their Creator who made them to do good simply by the occasional acts of goodness they are able to do.

It is the same with those who will be saved. They have varying degrees of success or failure in doing good. Those who overcome in their lives will bring greater glory to God, who can point to them as those proving their devotion under difficult trials.

Those who scarcely get into heaven will bring much less glory to God, choosing to capitulate in their lives under pressure. However, the good they are able to do will still bring glory to God for enabling them to do even that much. Their choice for Salvation alone brings glory to God, despite their overall failure to make good choices throughout their lives.

I doubt most Christians will think this far into these things. Nevertheless, I express my views as I see it. You're certainly welcome to express how you see it. Thanks for the opportunity.

 

[Netchaplain]

Yes, but there are various degrees of success and failure with individuals.

I don't believe there are success or failure with Christians, but growth and no growth. Christians are already eternally saved, but we grow at different rates in Christ (Eph 4:15). Unbelievers only have failures.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't believe there are success or failure with Christians, but growth and no growth. Christians are already eternally saved, but we grow at different rates in Christ (Eph 4:15). Unbelievers only have failures.

Yea, we would disagree on that. It seems to me that it's common sense. Some do better with their lives than others. Some may get into heaven by the skin of their teeth. I don't see it as important only to get into heaven. I see it as just as important to carry out the missions God has given us, and make something of the gifts we've been given.

But I'm not sure the subject can easily be resolved biblically or theologically. For me, it's just common sense. But it's okay.

 

[Netchaplain]

Some may get into heaven by the skin of their teeth. I don't see it as important only to get into heaven. I see it as just as important to carry out the missions God has given us, and make something of the gifts we've been given.

This is similar to 1Co 3:15, where one could be void of a reward, yet saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is similar to 1Co 3:15, where one could be void of a reward, yet saved.

Thank you! It's truly sad, and yet expressive of God's charity. He is truly kind, and rejects nobody who loves His Son. If, however, we wish to show our love for Christ, we should try to live like him. Indeed, we *must!*

 

[Netchaplain]

Thank you! It's truly sad, and yet expressive of God's charity. He is truly kind, and rejects nobody who loves His Son. If, however, we wish to show our love for Christ, we should try to live like him. Indeed, we *must!*

I don't think there will be any sadness, just not as much joy, if we're not where we could be in Christ when we depart. We know there will be different rewards according to what we did with what God gave us, but nevertheless joy everlasting in Christ!

Some walk closer to the Lord than others, and it's not because others didn't want to, but just didn't know what do for that which is needed to draw as close as they would like. "For if these things be in you (2Pe 1:5-7), and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Pe 1:8).

Gill: "and brought forth some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred;" "'that is, so many fold: in some the word of God produced larger and greater effects; the grace of God was more in exercise in some, than in others, and some were more fruitful and useful; yet in all of them there was true grace, and a measure of it; some degree of lively exercise, and some usefulness."'

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't think there will be any sadness, just not as much joy, if we're not where we could be in Christ when we depart. We know there will be different rewards according to what we did with what God gave us, but nevertheless joy everlasting in Christ!

Yes, I've thought along the same lines. I don't believe there will be deep regret (for those who under-performed)--perhaps an initial sense of disgust with ourselves and shame for not having done as best we could.

But knowing God the way we do, there will be no extended "shaming"--nothing to create lasting regrets. I do believe the Scriptures when they say the Kingdom of Heaven will be "everlasting joy," and "no more mourning." The reproaches of the past will be wiped away. It's on to newer and better things! :)

Some walk closer to the Lord than others, and it's not because others didn't want to, but just didn't know what do for that which is needed to draw as close as they would like. "For if these things be in you (2Pe 1:5-7), and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Pe 1:8).

Gill: "and brought forth some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred;" "'that is, so many fold: in some the word of God produced larger and greater effects; the grace of God was more in exercise in some, than in others, and some were more fruitful and useful; yet in all of them there was true grace, and a measure of it; some degree of lively exercise, and some usefulness."'

Yea, I thought about this passage too. However, the 30, 60, and 100 could refer to the fact some have greater gifts--not because they're better people, but only because God has hierarchies. Those who produced 30, 60, and 100 were all faithful Christians.

However, in the Kingdom of God those above us will serve us, rather than rule over us! ;)

Those who do not invest the way they could is indicated by the one who buried his gold/talents. I think Christians can be a prodigal for years, and either return or merely come to acknowledge Christ died for them.

Admittedly, this is somewhat speculative. It's just an interesting conversation-piece for me. Thanks.

 

[Netchaplain]

Yea, I thought about this passage too. However, the 30, 60, and 100 could refer to the fact some have greater gifts--not because they're better people, but only because God has hierarchies. Those who produced 30, 60, and 100 were all faithful Christians.

Like and agree here, good insight I think! Yes, for whatever reason God chooses to use some more than others "according to His own purpose and grace" (2Ti 1:9). It's certain that His choice of person isn't according to one's goodness, as Paul was use to reveal many things that the other Apostles didn't know. Nearly all the growth-truths are from Paul (Romans to Philemon).

However, in the Kingdom of God those above us will serve us, rather than rule over us!

That's possible, but it's my understanding that the "reward" will be varying the order of authority, shown in some of the parables (Mat 25:21; also 24:47; Luk 12:44; 22:28-30).

I suppose we might say that those in authority will serve those under them with guidance.

Also wanted to let you know I appreciate our communications, it being kind and encouraging to one another! God bless!

Those who do not invest the way they could is indicated by the one who buried his gold/talents. I think Christians can be a prodigal for years, and either return or merely come to acknowledge Christ died for them.

Admittedly, this is somewhat speculative. It's just an interesting conversation-piece for me. Thanks.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Like and agree here, good insight I think! Yes, for whatever reason God chooses to use some more than others "according to His own purpose and grace" (2Ti 1:9). It's certain that His choice of person isn't according to one's goodness, as Paul was use to reveal many things that the other Apostles didn't know. Nearly all the growth-truths are from Paul (Romans to Philemon).


That's possible, but it's my understanding that the "reward" will be varying the order of authority, shown in some of the parables (Mat 25:21; also 24:47; Luk 12:44; 22:28-30).

I suppose we might say that those in authority will serve those under them with guidance.

Also wanted to let you know I appreciate our communications, it being kind and encouraging to one another! God bless!

I feel the same way. I always enjoy your posts, whether we completely see eye to eye or not, because they always come from a good place. You have a good grasp of a devoted life, spiritual growth, combined with good theology. I choose to encourage those who I think will benefit others. And you've benefited me. Thanks brother! :)

 

[Netchaplain]

I feel the same way. I always enjoy your posts, whether we completely see eye to eye or not, because they always come from a good place. You have a good grasp of a devoted life, spiritual growth, combined with good theology. I choose to encourage those who I think will benefit others. And you've benefited me. Thanks brother! :)

Thanks you too Brother!