What does "until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in" mean?

[Patrick1966]

Romans 11:25
English Standard Version
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Romans 11:25
English Standard Version
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Why did the natural Israelites fail to fill all the places as branches of the symbolic olive tree described in Romans ch 11?

Later, Paul likened the nation of Israel to an olive tree that is linked to the patriarch Abraham. (James 2:23)
He said....
8 “I do not want you, brothers, to be ignorant of this sacred secret, in order for you not to be discreet in your own eyes: that a dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved.”
Notice that the saving of “all Israel” is accomplished, not by conversion of all the Jews, but by the ‘coming in’ of people from Gentile nations.
To arrive at a correct understanding of what is recorded at Romans 11:25-26, we should also take into account these earlier statements in Romans 2:28-29: “For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people."

So in speaking about "Israel" or "Jews", Paul points out that there is more than one "Israel"....spiritual Israel was made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians.....Paul called them "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:16)

 

[Patrick1966]

until the full number of people of the nations has come in...

As in every Gentile that ever lived?

 

[Aunty Jane]

As in every Gentile that ever lived?

The Jews were given the promise of becoming a "royal priesthood and a holy nation"...but there was not enough of them to fill the ranks, so the Gentiles had to be grafted in to make up the numbers of the elect who would lead mankind back to God. This is the whole purpose of the "elect".....to become "kings and priests" with Christ in his Kingdom, (Rev 20:6) bringing about reconciliation with God and sinful humanity so that he can return the earth and its inhabitants to his first purpose.....to have the earth filled with righteous humans who will care for this carefully prepared planet as they were meant to....and to have in subjection all the other creatures who share life with us here. This is not a training ground for heaven....it never was. The elect have a special assignment, but those who will be their subjects on earth will benefit from their loving rulership, directed by our King, Jesus Christ.

If Jesus said that he is going to resurrect both "those who did good things and those who did vile things" (or as Paul said "both the righteous and the unrighteous" in Acts 24:15) then all those in their graves will hear Jesus' voice and come out, just as he said. (John 5:28-29) Most who have died in times past, no matter what religions they subscribed to, sinned in ignorance, having inherited their religious beliefs from their parents. Most have never heard of the true God and his Christ....but they will be given that opportunity.
The Israelites were basically confined to the Middle East and Christianity was not spread to other nations until the Gentiles were accepted into the Christian congregations in the first century.

So as it says in Acts 10:34-35 and Acts 15:14....those who come to the Father through his son will be acceptable to God no matter what nation they originated from.

There is no such place as "hell"....."hades" is just the common grave......a place of rest, not torture. The righteous and the unrighteous will be brought back to life, but the incorrigibly wicked will never see life again. Their end is everlasting or eternal death. That's it.

 

[Patrick1966]

The Jews were given the promise of becoming a "royal priesthood and a holy nation"...but there was not enough of them to fill the ranks, so the Gentiles had to be grafted in to make up the numbers of the elect who would lead mankind back to God. This is the whole purpose of the "elect".....to become "kings and priests" with Christ in his Kingdom, (Rev 20:6) bringing about reconciliation with God and sinful humanity so that he can return the earth and its inhabitants to his first purpose.....to have the earth filled with righteous humans who will care for this carefully prepared planet as they were meant to....and to have in subjection all the other creatures who share life with us here. This is not a training ground for heaven....it never was. The elect have a special assignment, but those who will be their subjects on earth will benefit from their loving rulership, directed by our King, Jesus Christ.

If Jesus said that he is going to resurrect both "those who did good things and those who did vile things" (or as Paul said "both the righteous and the unrighteous" in Acts 24:15) then all those in their graves will hear Jesus' voice and come out, just as he said. (John 5:28-29) Most who have died in times past, no matter what religions they subscribed to, sinned in ignorance, having inherited their religious beliefs from their parents. Most have never heart of the true God and his Christ....but they will be given that opportunity.
The Israelites were basically confined to the Middle East and Christianity was not spread to other nations until the Gentiles were accepted into the Christian congregations in the first century.

So as it says in Acts 10:34-35 and Acts 15:14....those who come to the Father through his son will be acceptable to God no matter what nation they originated from.

There is no such place as "hell"....."hades" is just the common grave......a place of rest, not torture. The righteous and the unrighteous will be brought back to life, but the incorrigibly wicked will never see life again. Their end is everlasting or eternal death. That's it.

Thank you.

 

[Behold]

There is no such place as "hell"....."

KJ21
“Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
ASV
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
AMP
“Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);
AMPC
Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!
BRG
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
CSB
“Then he will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!
CEB
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

[Aunty Jane]

KJ21
“Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
ASV
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
AMP
“Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);
AMPC
Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!
BRG
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
CSB
“Then he will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!
CEB
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

So what is the "everlasting fire" that Jesus spoke about? This was a reference to "Gehenna" which was a literal place that came to represent a place that no one could come out of. "Hades" is the Greek equivalent of "sheol" in Hebrew. Hades is not Gehenna even though these two words are often translated as "hell". Hades is simply the grave where the dead 'rest in peace' until they are called out by Jesus at his return. (John 5:28-29) The elect are called first and these alone will rule with Christ in heaven. (Rev 20:6)

Gehenna was a rubbish dump outside the walls of the city of Jerusalem. Fires were kept burning by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) to consume the refuse. The carcasses of dead animals and even the bodies of executed criminals were cast into the flames because they were not considered worthy of a decent burial and hence no resurrection.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

it speaks about when the fullness of the gentile kingdoms spoken of by Daniel is complete.. When Christ returns. At that point. All Israel will be saved

 

[Robert Gwin]

Romans 11:25
English Standard Version
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Great question Pat, the prophecy was given to us in Daniel chap 4 about a tree that was banded for 7 times.

The prophecy was about Israel not having a king setting on Jehovah's throne. God had Zedekiah removed from the throne when Babylon invaded Jerusalem, and the time of the Gentiles would end when Jesus would be given the crown. We believe those times ended in 1914, thus starting us into Jesus' presence Mat 24:3.

 

[Behold]

So what is the "everlasting fire" that Jesus spoke about? This was a reference to "Gehenna" which was a literal place that came to represent a place that no one could come out of. "Hades" is the Greek equivalent of "sheol" in Hebrew. Hades is not Gehenna even though these two words are often translated as "hell". Hades is simply the grave where the dead 'rest in peace' until they are called out by Jesus at his return. (John 5:28-29) The elect are called first and these alone will rule with Christ in heaven. (Rev 20:6)

Gehenna was a rubbish dump outside the walls of the city of Jerusalem. Fires were kept burning by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) to consume the refuse. The carcasses of dead animals and even the bodies of executed criminals were cast into the flames because they were not considered worthy of a decent burial and hence no resurrection.

God is real.
Jesus is real.
The Devil is real.
Hell is real.

The torment that will be found in Hell that is literally cast into the Lake of Fire will be greater then the Torment that Jesus endured on the Cross to try to keep you out of Hell.
The Torment that Jesus endured on the Cross, helps us to understand the misery, the level of misery.... that will be found in Hell and the Lake of Fire.
Jesus's torment ended, and that is not the case for those who go to Hell.

Jesus said its better that you tear out you eye then to die and go to Hell.
He's not kidding.

Hell is not a garbage dump that exists outside of Jerusalem.
I should know, as ive been there quite a few times.

Always realize that the Devil would not want you to believe that Hell exists and He uses deceived people to try to deny its reality.

Here is Hell...

Hell was created before Adam was created. This means it existed before Jerusalem existed.

Hell was created for "the devil and his angels".

Unbelievers go there because they are "of your father the devil", so, where He ends up, the unbelievers end up., and that is not Heaven.
Whereas the born again end up with THEIR Father, who is The Father of Christ who is in Heaven.

Jesus spoke more about Hell than He spoke about Heaven.

If you die never being born again...

"Jesus said, you MUST be born again", = then you will go to Hell..

 

[Behold]

What is the time of the Gentiles?

Is simple a period where God is dealing specifically with the Gentiles, that started with the Cross and ends when the Tribulation starts.

See that time period, ????? and what is happening? = That is the "TIME of the Gentiles".. .ITs their TIME to come to God through the Cross according to Paul's "Gospel of the Grace of God".

Paul is the "Apostle to the GENTILES"..... and his Epistles and Doctrine is related to the "TIME of the Gentiles".
Jews can be saved also, but in the "time of the GENTILES" God is specifically calling them to Salvation during this "TIME".

 

[lforrest]

As in every Gentile that ever lived?

I understand it to mean all gentiles that would be receptive to the gospel have heard and received it.

Hence the importance of missionary work to all peoples, including the isolated tribes.

 

[JunChosen]

Romans 11:25
English Standard Version
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The words underlined above merely states that the condition of National Israel is one of blindness, until the last of the Gentiles to be saved has been saved!

Except for a remnant chosen, National Israel will NEVER recognize Jesus as the Messiah..

26 And so all Israel shall be saved....

The term "all Israel" (Gal. 6:16) above signifies the totality of all believers.

 

[JunChosen]

I understand it to mean all gentiles that would be receptive to the gospel have heard and received it.

Hence the importance of missionary work to all peoples, including the isolated tribes.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

The beginning of God to evangelize the world as three thousand souls were saved from fifteen different nations represented at Pentecost.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

I would suggest that the way that Romans 11:25b is being translated is not giving the true context of what Paul wrote.

Here is how I understand this part of this verse:

until the fullness {with respect to time} of the {heathen} Gentiles has come in/been completed.​

If we consider the 2,300 year prophecy given in Daniel 8, the Little Horn is given an army on and off, as his need may be, over the 2,300 years of this prophecy to trample God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts, i.e., Israel. The completion of this time period ends when the kings of the earth are judged on the earth and the heavenly hosts are judged in heaven and they will be gathered together to be imprisoned in a pit for many days, i.e., 1,000, years, while waiting of the time of their punishment.

The time period of Israel walking contrary to God we are told in Hosea 6:1-3 before they are redeemed once more and healed is after the visitation of the fathers' iniquities on their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth ages of their existence.

At the end of this present Age, we will see the Kings of the earth assembled at Armageddon to be judged by God/Jesus for their part in the trampling of God's sanctuary and His Earth Hosts over the set 2,300 years.

It is when Israel Cries out to God after the end of the fourth age of their time of the visitation of the fathers' iniquity, that God will turn once more to Gather Israel to Himself and will heal them and redeem them.

The fullness with respect to the number of gentiles coming into the Kingdom of God does not happen until after the redemption of the Israel occurs and Israel begins to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations once more.

It is during the seventh age that the Gentiles will tug at the sleeves of the Israelite people and implore them to show them the way to Mt Zion.

Let them who have eyes to see and ears to hear come into God's understanding.

Shalom

 

[Aunty Jane]

God is real.
Jesus is real.
The Devil is real.
Hell is real.

That is true but then we have to ask “which god?”.....Christendom teaches about a god that Christ never knew, and never talked about. He spoke about his God and Father, who is also our God and Father. The Lord’s Prayer is addressed to Him. Jesus called his Father “the only true God” without including himself. (John 17:3) because his the “anointed” “holy servant” of his Father. (Acts 4:27)

And “who is Jesus?”......”God” or “the son of God”.....he only ever confessed to being “the son of God”. (John 10:31-36)

“Who is the devil”, and where have his deceptions led people over the entire existence of the human family?
Does he have the power to misrepresent God to humans? Of course he does because that is how he began his rebellion. Can he manipulate people’s perceptions of God in order coerce people to give their love and loyalty to an counterfeit “god”? Didn’t Jesus say that this is what he would do, in exactly the same way as he corrupted Judaism......”teaching the commands of men as doctrines”. (Matthew 15:7-9) Jesus said it made their worship “in vain”.

What then is “hell”? Nothing like the adopted imaginings of the Greeks who influenced the Jews into believing that the dead actually aren’t dead at all, but alive in some other place.....either suffering unimaginable torture or cozied up in heavenly bliss.....this concept is not found in the Bible.

It was the devil who said “you surely will not die” when God told Adam that they would “surely die” if they disobeyed him. So where do we get the idea that the dead can suffer or think or feel or do, anything? NOT from the Bible....

Solomon wrote....
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol]where you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10)

Original Jewish belief, based entirely on scripture, had no such teaching of an immortal soul that left the body to go anywhere. The dead rested in their grave (Sheol) and were unaware of anything. Even their love had perished and they expected no activity at all once they had breathed their last. Their hope was in the resurrection....which was a return to life, not a continuation of it.......this is what Jesus taught and demonstrated when he raised the dead. Where was Lazarus before Jesus restored his life? (John 11:11-14) The Father has no need to keep wicked people alive in order to make them suffer for all eternity....his perfect love and justice would not allow such a thing......this is a gross misrepresentation created by the devil and reflects his abhorrent personality, not Jehovah’s.

The torment that will be found in Hell that is literally cast into the Lake of Fire will be greater then the Torment that Jesus endured on the Cross to try to keep you out of Hell.

If you read Rev 20:13-14 you will see that the dead in hades are released. “Hades” (Sheol) is the just mankind’s grave, so these verses picture death and it receptacle being thrown into a place of utter destruction. Death and hades are thrown into the Lake of fire. It means that “the last enemy death” is done away with. (1 Cor 15:26)
Nothing that goes into the figurative “lake of fire” ever comes out again, because in the scriptures, fire is used as a symbol of complete destruction. Things go into the lake of fire to be destroyed. As Jesus said in Matt 10:28...
"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna."
Souls are "DESTROYED" in "Gehenna".

The Torment that Jesus endured on the Cross, helps us to understand the misery, the level of misery.... that will be found in Hell and the Lake of Fire.
Jesus's torment ended, and that is not the case for those who go to Hell.

Nonsense! There is no crime under Israel’s law that involved torture......the highest penalty under God’s law was death. Punishment was designed to take the life of the person who took someone else’s life, thereby giving other a deterrent from committing murder. Other crimes had penalties that were designed to elicit repentance and compensate the victims. How does torturing someone forever reflect God’s perfect justice?
He has no need to burn anyone. (Jer 7:30-31)

Jesus said its better that you tear out you eye then to die and go to Hell.
He's not kidding.

No, he’s not kidding.....it’s better to be resurrected that to remain forever dead.....gehenna is not a hell of eternal torment. It is a symbolic place of no return.....which it is why the lake of fire is called “the second death”......humans can come back from the first death, but not from the second.

Hell is not a garbage dump that exists outside of Jerusalem.
I should know, as ive been there quite a few times.

In the first century it was the means to dispose of garbage...even human garbage. The flames of gehenna were kept burning day and night with the addition of brimstone.....so what the flames missed the maggots finished off.....this is the description Jesus gave.
“And if your eye makes you stumble, throw it away. It is better for you to enter one-eyed into the Kingdom of God than to be thrown with two eyes into Ge·henʹna, 48 where the maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.” (Mark 9:47-48)

Always realize that the Devil would not want you to believe that Hell exists and He uses deceived people to try to deny its reality.

Here is Hell...

Hell was created before Adam was created. This means it existed before Jerusalem existed.

Hell was created for "the devil and his angels".

Nonsense......you are espousing a Catholic belief based on pagan Greek notions of an immortal soul......that is not even mentioned to the Bible at all.
Go back to Eden and tell me where Adam was warned about a “heaven or hell” scenario....? Adam was told about life or death.....that’s it.
Israel also had only a choice between “life or death”. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20) There is no immortal soul in Jewish scripture.

Unbelievers go there because they are "of your father the devil", so, where He ends up, the unbelievers end up., and that is not Heaven.
Whereas the born again end up with THEIR Father, who is The Father of Christ who is in Heaven.

Jesus spoke more about Hell than He spoke about Heaven.

If you die never being born again...

"Jesus said, you MUST be born again", = then you will go to Hell..

I feel so sorry for those who believe the lies taught in the counterfeit Christianity that Jesus said would be sown by the devil......just read the scriptures as they are written and you will see what is pictorial and what is literal. The devil is the author of all your beliefs, laughing at those who have swallowed his version of who “the true God” really is.....he is nothing like that.

 

[Behold]

That is true but then we have to ask “which god?”....

You mean, that you do.

 

[Behold]

“the true God” really is..

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.

This isn't going to change because your church doesn't believe it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Romans 11:25
English Standard Version
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Sometimes Paul speaks about "the fulness" in terms of the full number of believers that ever existed down through time. Every person that fears God and trusts his word is included in "the fulness" whether a person lived during OT times or NT times all of us are included in "the fulness."

Imagine a rowing ship, which must have a crew of 100 rowers in order to propel the boat forward. The captain of the ship will continue to hire rowers until the boat has its entire crew compliment of 100 rowers. Once the boat has seated the entire crew compliment, both rowers and officers, then the boat has reached its "fulness."

Paul envisions the case whereby God is calling a full compliment of believers from both the Jews and the Gentiles. And God does this for thousands of years down through history. Eventually, Paul says, God will have the full number of Gentile believers he needs for his purposes.

I created the following video to explain this if you are interested.

 

[Space_Karen]

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

It helps to remember some credit arabs with inventing the mathematical zero. The arab world once represented the pinnacle of human science and technology.

The civilization of gentiles had not yet reached its full potential.

"The fullness of the gentiles" appears to refer to a future time when gentile based nations would advance to become dominant superpowers.

The partial hardening is something that typically appears in the bible. Its referred to as hardening of the heart.