22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

Context my boy....


8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up....


2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired,...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them

OK, give us a line-by-line explanation of 2 Peter 3 instead of lecturing others about something you are manifestly incapable of.

 

[Truther]

The book of Revelation is not chronological. It is a series of repetitions. It is a number of recaps describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. How could Revelation be chronological when we do not read of the birth of Christ until Revelation 12? The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

Have a look at the unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet. This corresponds with the conclusiveness associated with second coming passages elsewhere in Scripture. Let us look at some of the all-consummating detail.

• “the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ.”
• “he shall reign for ever and ever” – not a thousand years or for a measurable time-span.
• The time of God’s “wrath is come.”
• We have a general judgment where Christ will “give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints” and judge the wicked at the same time. He will “destroy them which destroy the earth.”
• “the mystery of God” will be “finished.”
• “time” shall be “no longer.”

It is hard to see how the Holy Spirit could have made it more final. All the bases are covered. All the boxes are ticked. The finishing of “the mystery of God” at the “sound of the last trumpet (trumpet 7) ushers in the end of time (chronos) and the beginning of eternity.

is the end of this world in chapter 1 or chapter 20?

 

[St. Joseph]

Chapter 12 is a description of the nation of Israel via describing Jesus' people.

Do you think the woman is Mary or Israel?

Israel. And those 24 elders in 11 are the raptured church then in heaven

 

[WPM]

is the end of this world in chapter 1 or chapter 20?

You find it at the end of Rev 20 and the other 5 recaps in Revelation. I gave you one above, and as is your MO, you ducked around it. You have to. That goes with being part of the denomination you belong to.

 

[Truther]

How was it in introduced? By what? What was lacking in it?

The Holy Ghost introduced it in Acts 2, but the fullness of the covenant is nowhere near what it shall be....

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.




9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Truther]

LOL. You have to be joking! You have a brass neck. Look in the mirror. I've never seen anybody who fails to do what they are lecturing others to do more than you. This is total hypocrisy. Take your own advice. Stop your evasive one-liners. Observers will see the deceit of your statement. They can follow your avoidance.

My one liners and chapter posting let the readers decide.

A salesman talks too much, like false teachers.

 

[Truther]

Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So the new testament that Jesus gave His disciples was only partial?

Just an intro to the finality of His return at the day of the Lord.

Actually, the future Millennial Reign is our unmasked/fulfilled covenant.

We only see through a glass darkly now, only few are healed and delivered per capita.

God will fix it all, you can count on that.

The Millenial, which we are viewing through a "welders mask" will be clear at Jesus' return and subsequent reign.

 

[Truther]

Israel. And those 24 elders in 11 are the raptured church then in heaven

Excellent!

 

[Truther]

You find it at the end of Rev 20 and the other 5 recaps in Revelation. I gave you one above, and as is your MO, you ducked around it. You have to. That goes with being part of the denomination you belong to.

I belong to no denomination.

My church started in the 2nd chapter of Acts.

It is the church of the 3000.

They are my true brethren.

Every church I can think of is laced with false doctrine.

This is why I stick to the original.

 

[St. Joseph]

I belong to no denomination.

My church started in the 2nd chapter of Acts.

It is the church of the 3000.

They are my true brethren.

Every church I can think of is laced with false doctrine.

This is why I stick to the original.

Excuse me for butting in. But what denomination are you?

 

[WPM]

My one liners and chapter posting let the readers decide.

A salesman talks too much, like false teachers.

It was you that was lecturing the rest of us about something you cannot do. You know one takes your lectures serious.

 

[covenantee]

Just an intro to the finality of His return at the day of the Lord.

Actually, the future Millennial Reign is our unmasked/fulfilled covenant.

We only see through a glass darkly now, only few are healed and delivered per capita.

God will fix it all, you can count on that.

The Millenial, which we are viewing through a "welders mask" will be clear at Jesus' return and subsequent reign.

Jesus does not agree with you.

He said "Drink ye all of it".

Not "Drink ye part of it".

A testament, which is a will, is by definition all of what it contains.

There is no such thing as a partial testament.

The New Testament in the Blood of Jesus Christ the Divine Testator is full, complete, and perfect.

 

[WPM]

Israel. And those 24 elders in 11 are the raptured church then in heaven

Once again, no mention of the Church, therefore in your school of thought, that means the Church is absent. That is what you have been wrongly taught. You are hung by your own noose.

Revelation 12 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension, thus refuting your argument: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Andthe great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

I believe the woman refers to the Israel of Israel (God's true people). The child is Christ. The highlighted part above shows the incarnation and resurrection. The woman is the redeemed Church since Adam. The NT saints are united in Christ with the OT saints. This is a spiritual people not a physical people.

The Lord says to the “seven churches” in Revelation 12:11-17, Philadelphia included, “And they (God’s people) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (God’s people) which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness (the world), into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent (Satan). And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman (God’s people), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman (God’s people), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth (God’s Sovereign protection). And the dragon was wroth with the woman (God’s people), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

There is no doubt from this passage that the Church is portrayed as the particular focus of the devil’s assaults. However, it is also equally depicted as being the subject of the protection of God and of being kept from the hour of trial that has engulfed the world. No rapture is mentioned to rescue her from the attacks of the enemy, or spare her the tests of this present age. No, the Church is simply sheltered beneath the sovereign hand of God in this battle. The wonderful assurance that is embodied within this reading, although written initially to “the seven churches,” relates also to the Church generally and to a period subsequent to the ascension. Revelation 12:5 describes how Christ “was caught up unto God, and to his throne.” Christ promises the Church protection from arrows of the devil in Matthew 16:18, saying, “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

The means by which these saints overcome the devil, the world and the flesh during great tribulation is the exact same as that employed by Christians throughout history. Those Christians that carry “the testimony of Jesus” in the tribulation are seen to conquer Satan by “the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11), again, confirming their sure unitary position within the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

Excuse me for butting in. But what denomination are you?

You are not butting in.

I lay claim to no denomination anymore.

I was affiliated with the oneness movement for decades but kinda drifted from a certain creed set in the last several years.

I grew up RCC among other groups until I obeyed Acts 2:38 in 1979.

I was also a Bible teacher around northern CA until I took a step back.

I kinda think of myself these days as the "Tucker Carlson" of Christendom.

Free thinking brethren.

 

[Truther]

It was you that was lecturing the rest of us about something you cannot do. You know one takes your lectures serious.

I don't lecture.

I like to post verses and let folks make their own decisions.

I used a picture chart, evangelizing homes, churches and prisons for over 30 years.

My style was to have the students read all the verses as I narrated.

It was an awesome interactive style.

I taught the entire Bible in 10, one hour lessons. One lesson a week.

Saw awesome miracles and hundreds saved via Acts 2:38 over those years.

When people do all the reading, I can't tweak it biasedly.

They'll catch it if I tried.

 

[Truther]

Jesus does not agree with you.

He said "Drink ye all of it".

Not "Drink ye part of it".

A testament, which is a will, is by definition all of what it contains.

There is no such thing as a partial testament.

The New Testament in the Blood of Jesus Christ the Divine Testator is full, complete, and perfect.

I drank Jesus too.

But I did not drink his future Millennial reign or his promise to the Fathers.

I got the Holy Ghost, not replacement theology.

 

[Truther]

Once again, no mention of the Church, therefore in your school of thought, that means the Church is absent. That is what you have been wrongly taught. You are hung by your own noose.

Revelation 12 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension, thus refuting your argument: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Andthe great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

I believe the woman refers to the Israel of Israel (God's true people). The child is Christ. The highlighted part above shows the incarnation and resurrection. The woman is the redeemed Church since Adam. The NT saints are united in Christ with the OT saints. This is a spiritual people not a physical people.

The Lord says to the “seven churches” in Revelation 12:11-17, Philadelphia included, “And they (God’s people) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (God’s people) which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness (the world), into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent (Satan). And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman (God’s people), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman (God’s people), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth (God’s Sovereign protection). And the dragon was wroth with the woman (God’s people), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

There is no doubt from this passage that the Church is portrayed as the particular focus of the devil’s assaults. However, it is also equally depicted as being the subject of the protection of God and of being kept from the hour of trial that has engulfed the world. No rapture is mentioned to rescue her from the attacks of the enemy, or spare her the tests of this present age. No, the Church is simply sheltered beneath the sovereign hand of God in this battle. The wonderful assurance that is embodied within this reading, although written initially to “the seven churches,” relates also to the Church generally and to a period subsequent to the ascension. Revelation 12:5 describes how Christ “was caught up unto God, and to his throne.” Christ promises the church protection from arrows of the devil in Matthew 16:18, saying, “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

The means by which these saints overcome the devil, the world and the flesh during great tribulation is the exact same as that employed by Christians throughout history. Those Christians that carry “the testimony of Jesus” in the tribulation are seen to conquer Satan by “the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11), again, confirming their sure unitary position within the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ.

The Church is raptured after chapter 3.

 

[covenantee]

I drank Jesus too.

But I did not drink his future Millennial reign or his promise to the Fathers.

I got the Holy Ghost, not replacement theology.

You deny His full, complete, perfect New Testament.

You got nothing.

 

[Truther]

Time to blow your minds.

Remember Jesus said the gospel will be preached in all the world then shall the end come?

Who do you think the gospel preachers will be?

Here ya go....


6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


3 angels will preach the gospel to every person of all languages, warning them NOT take the mark, causing a revolt against the system of the beast.

The modern minister is not the one Jesus was speaking of.

 

[covenantee]

I drank Jesus too.

But I did not drink his future Millennial reign or his promise to the Fathers.

I got the Holy Ghost, not replacement theology.

Meanwhile, about those promises...

There is not a single NT promise for physical Israel outside of Christ.

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

If you deny that God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things, you declare God to be a liar.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that we who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But notice:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.