Can You Lose Your Salvation ?

[logabe]

He did (Jer.3); but that was involving only the "house of Israel" (ten tribes), not "Judah". It's why the ten tribes of Israel became lost to the world, while the "house of Judah" (Jews) did not.

And it's also why The Father sent His Son Jesus Christ as Redeemer, especially for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Veteran... the only reason Judah wasn't included in the scattering of Israel
was because the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem. They were protected
by God until Jesus Christ came through the line of Judah. But we all know
what happened in 70 AD to 73 AD, God sent His armies to scatter and destroy
the temple @ Jerusalem because of their 40 year rejection of Jesus.

In essence, God divorced them just as He had given Israel their papers and
sent them away, he also sent Judah away even to this present day. Just as
God's Glory departed from Shiloh because of their sinful ways, God's Glory left
Jerusalem when Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, from the Mount of Olives.

Jesus had to first come and do His first work, which is, die on the cross and be
raised from the dead, before Judah could be included in this divorce. Jesus came
back ten days later @ the feast of Pentecost and places His Name (Glory) in a
different temple. What temple do you think that is? It is the temple of our bodies.
1st Cor. 3:16,

16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and
that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

So God took His Name from Israel first, and then He took His Name from Judah. He
placed it within whosoever would believe in the message of His Son. "The Elect" is
about bearing or manifesting His Glory, or God's Name being written on your temple
as a living stone that fits into the corporate temple, that is fitly joined together.

Let me leave you with what God told Jeremiah about Judah, Jer. 7:12-15 says,

12 But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where
I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did
to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel.
13 And now, because you have done all these things,
declares the Lord, and I spoke to you, rising up early
and speaking, but you did not hear, and I called you,
but you did not answer,
14 therefore, I will do to the house which is called by
My name, in which you trust, and to the place which I
gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast
out all your brothers, all the offspring of Ephraim."

What a God! What a Plan!


Logabe

 

[romans7]

If you indeed know that you are operating from your salvation experience, then you must know that the only way you can lose it is to fail to continue to so operate. I.E to cease working for the Lord. To cease following the Spirit. To stop acknowleging him. To turn away from your brothers and sisters and to cease loving the life that God has now provided you in Christ. To stop rejoicing.

 

[veteran]

Veteran... the only reason Judah wasn't included in the scattering of Israel
was because the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem. They were protected
by God until Jesus Christ came through the line of Judah. But we all know
what happened in 70 AD to 73 AD, God sent His armies to scatter and destroy
the temple @ Jerusalem because of their 40 year rejection of Jesus.

In essence, God divorced them just as He had given Israel their papers and
sent them away, he also sent Judah away even to this present day. Just as
God's Glory departed from Shiloh because of their sinful ways, God's Glory left
Jerusalem when Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, from the Mount of Olives.

Jesus had to first come and do His first work, which is, die on the cross and be
raised from the dead, before Judah could be included in this divorce. Jesus came
back ten days later @ the feast of Pentecost and places His Name (Glory) in a
different temple. What temple do you think that is? It is the temple of our bodies.
1st Cor. 3:16,

16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and
that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

So God took His Name from Israel first, and then He took His Name from Judah. He
placed it within whosoever would believe in the message of His Son. "The Elect" is
about bearing or manifesting His Glory, or God's Name being written on your temple
as a living stone that fits into the corporate temple, that is fitly joined together.

Let me leave you with what God told Jeremiah about Judah, Jer. 7:12-15 says,

12 But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where
I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did
to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel.
13 And now, because you have done all these things,
declares the Lord, and I spoke to you, rising up early
and speaking, but you did not hear, and I called you,
but you did not answer,
14 therefore, I will do to the house which is called by
My name, in which you trust, and to the place which I
gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast
out all your brothers, all the offspring of Ephraim."

What a God! What a Plan!


Logabe

Well, the divorce idea He said is a bit different than His judgments per Deut.4 and 28, which in those chapters He warned Israel that He would scatter them among the Gentiles for falling away from Him. But yeah, Judah is guilty of falling away also, even after having seen the ten tribes falling away, so their punishment exists too, but of a different type, even more severe in a sense. Afterall, if you're given to see an example of other's error right in front of you, how much greater error is it to also fall into the same? (Jer.3:6-11)

God knew the ten tribes would fall away, and per His Plan He used them to take The Gospel to the Gentiles. Notice the majority of the house of Judah was not given that commission of The Gospel, but just the opposite, to be against it. That's actually one of the main reasons God gave the ten tribes a bill of divorce; it was so they could become as... Gentiles, receiving The Gospel as Gentiles, among Gentiles, and as Gentiles taking The Gospel to the nations.

 

[0bed]

Can we loose our Salvation? Answer - yes if we comit apostacy.

Matthew 12:31-32
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


Mark 3:28
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”


1 Chronicles 28:9
"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever."

 

[rainbows]

7angels and rainbow and everybody else that has a different understanding on salvation from my Catholic explanation of salvation as presented in my post of # 131, how different is your understanding of salvation from the Catholic teaching on salvation ? Please exlain, Thank you and God bless

Hello neophyte.

Regarding post # 131.

Agreement up to the line about the father's hands and the son's hands.

 

[neophyte]

Hello neophyte.

Regarding post # 131.

Agreement up to the line about the father's hands and the son's hands.

rainbows. you've lost me , I don't understand your answer. I am not a believer in" once saved always saved"

 

[rainbows]

Hello neophyte.

I did not lose you, you lost yourself.

I would love OSAS to be true, that would be so easy.

Alas, the scripture is overflowing with warnings about perseverance.

We must remain faithful in our first love Jesus Christ.

Nothing can seperate us from Jesus but we can choose to walk away from Him.

Christians do fall away, I have witnessed a few over the years.

The Galatian church is the ultimate example of defection from Christ.

Paul's letter was written to correct the Galatians, to try to bring them
back to their first love. They had strayed into self justification
via obedience to the law. Paul was very concerned about the Galatians.

Now do you understand Neophyte.

 

[neophyte]

Hello neophyte.

I did not lose you, you lost yourself.

I would love OSAS to be true, that would be so easy.

Alas, the scripture is overflowing with warnings about perseverance.

We must remain faithful in our first love Jesus Christ.

Nothing can seperate us from Jesus but we can choose to walk away from Him.

Christians do fall away, I have witnessed a few over the years.

The Galatian church is the ultimate example of defection from Christ.

Paul's letter was written to correct the Galatians, to try to bring them
back to their first love. They had strayed into self justification
via obedience to the law. Paul was very concerned about the Galatians.

Now do you understand Neophyte.

I believe you'' missed'' understood my past posts on this thread. I've been writing and stating that we can lose our salvation. Also, we can do it to ourselves by leaving Him-John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, "no one shall snatch them out of my hands," He does not mean we can't leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.Now do you understand that we both agree that we can lose our salvation ?

 

[rainbows]

Sometimes I do wonder why the Gospel of Jesus Christ has
been so distorted by so many organisations.

Some force the Law of Moses into the Gospel.

Others impose theology on the Gospel and muddy
the clear water.

Still others proclaim their church is the one true church.

Then there are those who create catechisms and creeds
which are placed on par with the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Some use the Gospel for political purposes.

Others have twisted it into a socialist cause.

Many have made a fortune out of peddling
the Gospel for their own gain.

Why are there so many adversaries to the truth?

 

[brightmorningstar]

The question is not necessarily tricky. It is chilling that Jesus says some will come saying Lord Lord, but He wont know them as it means some will be claiming they are saved but arent. Yet the the NT also refers to assurance. The implication in Matthew 25 is that those who do not give water to the thirsty wont be known. This mirrors passages which say works are the manifestaion of the faith, but even then some people would see that as Aid relief providing water wells in 3rd countries, whereas with Jesus and the woman at the well a cup of water would only quench thirst for a time, but whoever drinks the water Jesus gives will never thirst.
Perhaps people can lose their salvation, perhaps they cant but those who seem to never actually had it in the first place?

 

[Episkopos]

7 angels, thank you for responding. I'm not sure if you or xBlux's belief system is based on belief in a doctrine called “once saved, always saved.” Once you are “saved,” – answered an altar call or said a sinner’s prayer and accepted Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior – then, according to this doctrine, that’s it. That’s all that needs to be done. Your train ticket to Heaven has been punched and there is nothing that can derail that train. Salvation is, in essence, a one–time event that cannot be undone. That’s why believers in this doctrine claim to have “absolute assurance” in their own salvation.
Catholics do not, however, say that they have “a bsolute” assurance of salvation because we do not believe that we have the authority nor the ability to judge ourselves. Paul himself says, in 1 Cor 4:3–5, that he does not judge himself, but it is the Lord who judges him. Paul even says that he is not aware of anything against himself, yet that he is not necessarily acquitted (or saved, in Evangelical terminology). That doesn’t sound like absolute assurance of salvation, does it?
Also, in Phil 3:10–13 and 1 Cor 9:26–27, we don’t see Paul talking in the language of absolute assurance: ”...that, if possible, I may attain the resurrection of the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own…,” and ”...lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.” This is not the language of absolute assurance.
God judges us, we do not judge ourselves. At any moment in our lives, we still have the free will to turn away from God and reject Him. And, if you reject God, are you still saved? Catholics don’t believe so. What we can say is that we have believed in God and have done our best to do His will for our lives (Matthew 7:21, “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven,”) and that by His grace and mercy we hope in His salvation.
Man has this incredible capacity to fool himself, but he cannot fool God: “Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart,” (Proverbs 21:2). That’s why we say that if we believe and do the Father’s will, then we have the hope in us that God will indeed have mercy upon us and grant us eternal life with Him in Heaven. But, we do not presume to judge when judgment is for God alone.
We also do not say we have absolute assurance of salvation because Catholics, like Paul, believe salvation is a process. We believe, as Jesus says, that in order to follow Him, we must deny ourselves and we must pick up our cross daily (Luke 9:23), not just once in our lives. If we don’t pick up our cross daily, then we are not following Him. And, if we are not following Him, are we still saved? The answer is, no, we are not.
And Paul very clearly believes that salvation is a process, not a one–time event. In several places he states that we have been saved (2 Tim 1:8–9, Rom 8:24, Eph 2:5 and 8, and Titus 3:5); in other places he says that we are being saved (1 Cor 1:18 and 2 Cor 2:15), which in and of itself connotes a process of salvation; and in still other places he says we will be saved (1 Cor 3:15, 1 Cor 5:5, 1 Tim 2:15, Rom 5:9–10, and Rom 10:9 and 13). We were saved, we are being saved, and w e will be saved…if we persevere to the end – that is the scriptural process of salvation.
Finally, for those who believe in absolute assurance, they have a bit of a problem with the whole concept of hope that we find all through the New Testament. Why are these these folks in the Scripture told to have hope rather than to trust in their absolute assurance of salvation? If they have absolute knowledge – absolute assurance – that they are saved, then they have no need for hope. The concept of hope fits perfectly with Catholic belief, but not so much with the belief in once saved always saved and this whole absolute assurance business.
To summarize: We have the assurance, based upon God’s own word, that if we follow His will for our lives, we will be saved. But, we do not have “absolute” assurance that we will be saved because we could, of our own free will, turn away from Christ at any given point in our lives.

I would term what you have written as Christian belief...not just Catholic belief.

 

[neophyte]

I would term what you have written as Christian belief...not just Catholic belief.

Episkopos, excuse my confusion please, are you saying that you do not believe in 'once saved always saved ' ?

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, excuse my confusion please, are you saying that you do not believe in 'once saved always saved ' ?

I don't believe the bible offers unconditional guarantees. There are a lot of qualifying "ifs" that go along with the promises. So if Jesus once saves us from the lure of sin...does that mean you will never again be lured into sin??? So our experiences line up with the bible. I don't know of any Christian that has been set free from the lure of sin completely. So then salvation is a process as well as an event. We must learn to put our desires in heaven...all of them, so we can walk in the salvation we have been given through Christ. Then we can grow into the salvation to the extent that we can keep it.

 

[neophyte]

I don't believe the bible offers unconditional guarantees. There are a lot of qualifying "ifs" that go along with the promises. So if Jesus once saves us from the lure of sin...does that mean you will never again be lured into sin??? So our experiences line up with the bible. I don't know of any Christian that has been set free from the lure of sin completely. So then salvation is a process as well as an event. We must learn to put our desires in heaven...all of them, so we can walk in the salvation we have been given through Christ. Then we can grow into the salvation to the extent that we can keep it.

We can still lose salvation --- for those who believe in absolute assurance, they have a bit of a problem with the whole concept of hope that we find all through the New Testament. Why are these these folks in the Scripture told to have hope rather than to trust in their absolute assurance of salvation? If they have absolute knowledge – absolute assurance – that they are saved, then they have no need for hope. The concept of hope fits perfectly with Catholic belief, but not so much with the belief in once saved always saved and this whole absolute assurance business.
To summarize: We have the assurance, based upon God’s own word, that if we follow His will for our lives, we will be saved. But, we do not have “absolute” assurance that we will be saved because we could, of our own free will, turn away from Christ at any given point in our lives.

 

[kensapp]

You don't lose your salvation, everyone is meant to be judge after the physical body's death and it might be that the soul goes to heaven , hell or purgatory.

 

[Foreigner]

1. The Bible talks about many who are saved but then fall away.
2. There is no such a place as purgatory.
3. Joseph Stalin had at one time given his life to Christ and was in the Seminary. 60 Million dead later, I am thinking he likely lost his salvation.

 

[Stan]

I used to think that you could'nt lose your salvation but now I'm not so sure..can someone help me out here ?

Not only can you fall away from God, you will not be able to come back if you do. A modern example would be Charles Templeton.

Heb 6:4-6
[sup] [/sup]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [sup]5 [/sup]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [sup]6 [/sup]and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

[lawrance]

1. The Bible talks about many who are saved but then fall away.
2. There is no such a place as purgatory.
3. Joseph Stalin had at one time given his life to Christ and was in the Seminary. 60 Million dead later, I am thinking he likely lost his salvation.

I think that Stalin got kicked out because he was a ? i can't think of the word, it's starts with an m . and my brothers best mates wife is one, they are smart, totally self obsessed, ruthless beyond belief and could not give a damn about others at all. it abuses manipulates all the staff, thinks the world revolves around her and there is no known help for that type of person at all, as they only get worse if they gain more knowledge. and she has been locked up once at wallyworld. power goes to there head and you can't reason with them. and most murderers are this type.

 

[Axehead]

There is no such thing as the Security of the Unbeliever.

Hebrews 4:11

Axehead

 

[neophyte]

Peace with God is something other than a temporary cease-fire, but that doesn't mean it can't be broken. By any standard, the United States and England have more than a cease-fire between them and currently enjoy a deep and long-lasting peace between them. Yet that doesn't mean it is impossible for them ever to go to war.
The biblical idea of peace clearly did not indicate a peace which was totally unbreakable. King David would have been shocked by the suggestion that, when God gave him peace (shalom) with his enemies, this meant they would never, ever, under any circumstances go to war with Israel again.
Thus in the divine sphere: Peace with God can be broken, but one must do something grave (something with the grave matter of mortal sin) to break one's peace with God and become his enemy. That is why mortal sins break peace with God, but venial sins don't.
Answer from a stall member of Catholic Answers