I used to think that you could'nt lose your salvation but now I'm not so sure..can someone help me out here ?
Can You Lose Your Salvation ?
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Ted, this is what the Holy Bible tells us about how we could lose our salvation-
Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.
Heb. 9:12 - Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of "once saved, always saved," such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.
Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the "hope" (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?
Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.
Heb. 9:12 - Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of "once saved, always saved," such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.
Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the "hope" (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?
What does election mean? GOD chose YOU to be conformed to the image of HIS son; Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
chosen to bring forth fruit, John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,;
chosen to be holy, Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
HIS choice fulfilled by grace; Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace;
chosen for salvation; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
chosen to adoption; Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
chosen to be justified and glorified; Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Do I have to know why GOD wrote the way HE did in your verses? Not really...yours carry no more weight of proof of your interpretation than mine, :shrug:
but I speculate that they are designed to
1. keep us focused on our sanctification to hurry the process to holiness (2 Peter 3:11 - Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of GOD.) so the judgment day need not be postponed (the Wheat and the Tares) any longer.
or
2. to give us a hint of the nature of the tares, those who bear the mark of Cain, those who love religion but not the LORD, those who follow tradition but not the Holy Spirit and giving us assurance about their utlimate end.
Peace, Ted
chosen to bring forth fruit, John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,;
chosen to be holy, Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
HIS choice fulfilled by grace; Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace;
chosen for salvation; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
chosen to adoption; Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
chosen to be justified and glorified; Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Do I have to know why GOD wrote the way HE did in your verses? Not really...yours carry no more weight of proof of your interpretation than mine, :shrug:
but I speculate that they are designed to
1. keep us focused on our sanctification to hurry the process to holiness (2 Peter 3:11 - Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of GOD.) so the judgment day need not be postponed (the Wheat and the Tares) any longer.
or
2. to give us a hint of the nature of the tares, those who bear the mark of Cain, those who love religion but not the LORD, those who follow tradition but not the Holy Spirit and giving us assurance about their utlimate end.
Peace, Ted
There are some that are predestinated to faithfully serve Christ, and Jesus already... literally 'owns' those (like His Apostles and disciples of His first coming - see John 17). For the last days, those are represented by believers that have already been 'sealed' in prep against the "hour of temptation" (the coming temptation by a false messiah). In other words, no matter what, they will not fall away from Christ to bow to the coming false messiah by mistake. They will gladly make themselves subject to death if necessary to keep from bowing to the false one, like Daniel and his fellows.
Then there are those who come to Christ Jesus through 'their' word (preaching; again per John 17). And they are to become joined with the saints which The Father predestinated to Jesus. But the difference with these is, they must... go through a specific testing, which is about the "hour of temptation" for our generation, and these can fall away IF they choose to because of Satan's deceptions that God allows for this time, thus becoming the "five foolish virgins".
For those in that second group per John 17, you are indeed 'called'... by Christ Jesus. And as long as you keep the Faith and stay in Christ Jesus to the end, not being deceived by the false messiah yet not fearing death, then you are among Christ's elect, and you have a crown of glory to look forward to. But listen to the false prophets in the world (and there are many today), and turn away from Christ Jesus and His Word, then that is a rejection of His calling you. And He will not have rejected you, it is you that will have rejected Him.
So if you are called, then have no fear of falling away, and no doubt about your 'calling' to be in Christ Jesus. You can feel as solid as this earth about it. But you must stay... dilligent in listening to our Lord Jesus and His Word, and continually compare what He said with what His enemies are saying, and be aware of the difference so as to remain undeceived. You must do this even if a family loved one is deceived, even if your own children are deceived to bow to the coming false one.
I agree with Veteran here. Some have been pre-selected as it were and are already sealed. Most, however, are open to whichever course they freely choose.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.
I'll be totally honest here. I've struggled with this issue.
For a long time, I held to a belief much like Veteran and Episkopos espouse where we have those called (IE: Paul) and then those who seem to have free will (thief on the cross). I think there is too much tension - and Paul's blatant example - to say it's all a matter of free will. I think God has reasons to know who he can trust, and I think it's beyond our full understanding why Saul was struck down on the road to Damascus. I have my reasons that I believe God chose Paul in this time. If he knows the heart, and the Bible says that he does, then he does know the choices we will make.
I had my Pastor pose the statement that let it click for me. If salvation was an on-again, off-again thing, then that would suggest that the work that Jesus did on the cross was not enough. Now I realize the covenant argument, but the Bible is very clear that God draws people to himself (look at what Jesus and the Holy Spirit have done as well as what's said in passages like John 6:44). The Bible is also very clear that Jesus is everything.
I read a story today about a mainline-denomination Pastor who lost her faith. I don't want to say she had it and now does not, and I don't want to say that she never had it to begin with. However, I think we can get caught up in emotions and movements and think we have the real thing, but eventually that feeling subsides and suddenly its not there. I'm just no longer of the mind that someone who experienced the grace of God can suddenly lose it. At the end of the day, if we can lose it, that means we must work to keep it. That's not consistent with the Gospel of Jesus, because he himself said it's done. We believe yes, but we are drawn. That's why most of us can walk outside and see God's handwriting on the walls of nature. It's why we get excited about little things that show God in some form or another.
It still involves the ultimate choice, as we have to believe, but I think it goes beyond our understanding of the specifics. I think it's okay that people see a little bit differently on this issue, as well. The problems come when it's polarized.
I will caution that there is a balance to understanding this aspect of our faith, and we have to understand passages in James in context. Perhaps the best person I've read on this issue would be Spurgeon, because he talked about a balance between our assured salvation and yet still being a vibrant faithful member. I quote James in saying, faith without works is dead, but I echo passages where Jesus/God/Holy Spirit have all said the work is done by Jesus alone, and not us.
I'll be totally honest here. I've struggled with this issue.
For a long time, I held to a belief much like Veteran and Episkopos espouse where we have those called (IE: Paul) and then those who seem to have free will (thief on the cross). I think there is too much tension - and Paul's blatant example - to say it's all a matter of free will. I think God has reasons to know who he can trust, and I think it's beyond our full understanding why Saul was struck down on the road to Damascus. I have my reasons that I believe God chose Paul in this time. If he knows the heart, and the Bible says that he does, then he does know the choices we will make.
I had my Pastor pose the statement that let it click for me. If salvation was an on-again, off-again thing, then that would suggest that the work that Jesus did on the cross was not enough. Now I realize the covenant argument, but the Bible is very clear that God draws people to himself (look at what Jesus and the Holy Spirit have done as well as what's said in passages like John 6:44). The Bible is also very clear that Jesus is everything.
I read a story today about a mainline-denomination Pastor who lost her faith. I don't want to say she had it and now does not, and I don't want to say that she never had it to begin with. However, I think we can get caught up in emotions and movements and think we have the real thing, but eventually that feeling subsides and suddenly its not there. I'm just no longer of the mind that someone who experienced the grace of God can suddenly lose it. At the end of the day, if we can lose it, that means we must work to keep it. That's not consistent with the Gospel of Jesus, because he himself said it's done. We believe yes, but we are drawn. That's why most of us can walk outside and see God's handwriting on the walls of nature. It's why we get excited about little things that show God in some form or another.
It still involves the ultimate choice, as we have to believe, but I think it goes beyond our understanding of the specifics. I think it's okay that people see a little bit differently on this issue, as well. The problems come when it's polarized.
I will caution that there is a balance to understanding this aspect of our faith, and we have to understand passages in James in context. Perhaps the best person I've read on this issue would be Spurgeon, because he talked about a balance between our assured salvation and yet still being a vibrant faithful member. I quote James in saying, faith without works is dead, but I echo passages where Jesus/God/Holy Spirit have all said the work is done by Jesus alone, and not us.
Jon-Marc
New Member
Personally, I believe that I was given ETERNAL life when I accepted Christ and NOT temporary life until my next sin. Obtaining or keeping salvation is NOT up to me. Jesus bought salvation and ETERNAL life on the cross. He died ONCE, and we only need to be saved ONCE! God's forgiveness and salvation is FOREVER! My Saviour is perfectly capable of keeping me saved in spite of myself and my imperfections. As a T shirt I have reads, "I'm not perfect--yet! Just forgiven!" People want to limit God and seem to have the idea that He needs our help to sa ve us and keep us saved when "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags."
historyb
Well-Known Member
Yes I think one can lose their salvation. A person can walk away because we have free will, being saved is not a prison or being in leg chains
One thing's for sure, when our Lord Jesus returns... then we will begin to understand why He divinely intervened with Saul (Paul) and converted him against his own free will; why He told Jeremiah the prophet that He knew him before he was in his mother's womb; why Abraham was called "Friend of God"; why He chose Jacob over Esau, even before either child was in the womb, neither having chance yet to do good or evil, etc., etc., etc. Then we all will understand the concept of His election.
Of cause you can loose your salvation as Satan is always at your door ready to lead you away from the Lord and into the darkness.
I have seen many people loose there way as it's just like the parable of the sower.
I have seen many people loose there way as it's just like the parable of the sower.
God promised He would deliver His people out of the hands of the wicked. And that means those who have believed on Him through His Son Jesus Christ, and those of His people of Israel that He foreordained before the foundation of this world. But how many of those will appear spiritually naked and in shame, having lost their garments when He comes? His Word reveals quite a few, simply because they allowed themselves to be deceived by listening to doctrines of men instead of Him in His Word. So it's not proper per God's Word to think that any of us who fall to that should go unpunished when He returns.
Luke 12:45-48
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, 'My lord delayeth his coming'; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
(KJV)
Luke 12:45-48
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, 'My lord delayeth his coming'; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
(KJV)
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
All relationships can be lost - even the internal relationship between our true self and the false self. If we continue to follow the way of the first Adam (the way of the false self) rather than throwing him off (throwing off the Old Man) and following the second Adam (following Jesus with our true selves as we were created to do) we will die. Jesus will tell all people on the path of the first Adam to depart because He only knows those who know Him (those who have responded to His love and are equipped by Him to live through their true selves).
It used to frighten me that I could lose my salvation if my relationship with Christ wasted away; but only because I was falsely taught that somehow, I was responsible for the relationship!! As if, I could un-believe in Him who loves me or blink and suddenly be unsaved. Daily and conscious devotion to the Old Adam is the only way to renounce our relationship with God - remember - He wants to be in relationship with us! All we are required to do is get out of Jesus's way - stop resisting His work in our hearts. A humble heart is a vulnerable heart, which is also a heart that can receive and give unconditional love. This is why God loves a humble heart - this is the sacrifice that God prefers over animal sacrifices in Psalms 51.
A person must lose themselves to experience God's love and salvation.
The old campfire song 'One Tin-Soldier' is corny AND accurate. We win by losing. Blessed are the Meek - the vulnerable - they will know God.
It used to frighten me that I could lose my salvation if my relationship with Christ wasted away; but only because I was falsely taught that somehow, I was responsible for the relationship!! As if, I could un-believe in Him who loves me or blink and suddenly be unsaved. Daily and conscious devotion to the Old Adam is the only way to renounce our relationship with God - remember - He wants to be in relationship with us! All we are required to do is get out of Jesus's way - stop resisting His work in our hearts. A humble heart is a vulnerable heart, which is also a heart that can receive and give unconditional love. This is why God loves a humble heart - this is the sacrifice that God prefers over animal sacrifices in Psalms 51.
A person must lose themselves to experience God's love and salvation.
The old campfire song 'One Tin-Soldier' is corny AND accurate. We win by losing. Blessed are the Meek - the vulnerable - they will know God.
It is very scary to think that salvation can be lost...it gives me the mindset that I have to do works to keep it when I know I can never live up to that. How can a recreated, born-again spirit be un-born again ? I have to rely totally on Jesus, other wise I am in big trouble. Thanks everyone for your posts, they are helping me a great deal...It's good to see you back with us aspen2
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Salvation is not a possession. Salvation is experienced. We experience it as soon as we begin an eternal relationship with Jesus. Losing our salvation is willfully deciding to work for our damnation by following our desires. It takes work to be damned - it takes sacrifice (vulnerability) to be saved.
So what happens to the born-again spirit when salvation is lost, does it just become darkened, does it return to it's former state un-alive unto God ?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Being born again is not a one time experience. We are born again every time we experience God's love for us. Experiencing this love is what allows us to go out and love others. Jesus tells us to pick up our cross and follow him daily. The only way we can sacrifice ourselves daily is by experiencing His love daily. Jesus was born again every second of the day - not to possess his salvation (He was already sinless because He loved perfectly), but simply because he was in perfect unity with God.
Prayer, worship, meditation, contemplation are all born again experiences - they transform our souls by opening ourselves to experience God's love. All we have to do is show up - God takes care of the rest.
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