Contradictions

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Regardless of any history and regardless of who wrote it, it is an immoral piece of text. Its right in the words for us all to see. "Punish" "institution" "tax" "mans authority". If you think this is Truth you are mistaken. I'm not here to make you believe anything just state that this is a major contridiction in my knowing and understanding.
"Authority" in the context of Christianity, does not mean dominating dictatorship by a priestly class. Such an institution would have collapsed before it got off the ground. Re-writing real history so it fits your anti-institution agenda is dishonest, self-contradictory and self-defeating. It's an endless process of re-inventing the wheel so we have to back to see what teachings were based on the authority of man and what teachings were divinely revealed truths. The Catholic Church did not invent the doctrine of the Trinity, but has the authority to defend It against a string of heresies. That is a negative element of authority. The positive element of authority is to guide us to live moral, thus meaningful, lives.
You can't just demonize "authority" the way you do and then claim its a contradiction.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.
This verse contradicts your definition of authority. It rules out the anti-institution mentality commonly found in certain sects that popped up less than 20 years ago.
 

Zachariah

Active Member
Mar 20, 2023
405
138
43
34
Belief in government = belief in slavery.
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
"Authority" in the context of Christianity, does not mean dominating dictatorship by a priestly class. Such an institution would have collapsed before it got off the ground. Re-writing real history so it fits your anti-institution agenda is dishonest, self-contradictory and self-defeating. It's an endless process of re-inventing the wheel so we have to back to see what teachings were based on the authority of man and what teachings were divinely revealed truths. The Catholic Church did not invent the doctrine of the Trinity, but has the authority to defend It against a string of heresies. That is a negative element of authority. The positive element of authority is to guide us to live moral, thus meaningful, lives.
You can't just demonize "authority" the way you do and then claim its a contradiction.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.
This verse contradicts your definition of authority. It rules out the anti-institution mentality commonly found in certain sects that popped up less than 20 years ago.
There is a big difference between "Gods Authority" and "Man's Authority". Gods authority comes in alignment with Truth, morality and the divine will of creation. Mans authority (like in Romans 13) is in accordance with mans own will not Gods. Like tax for example. Learn to tell the difference because as a true Christian this is critical to understand and to be able to decern the difference.
 
Last edited:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,382
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
There is a big difference between "Gods Authority" and "Man's Authority". Gods authority comes in alignment with Truth, morality amd the divine will of creation. Mans authority (like is Romans 13) is in accordance with mans own will not Gods. Like tax for example. Learn to tell the difference because as a true Christian this is critical to understand and decern the difference.
Remembering that in prophecy, we are informed of a coming global institutionalized faith community that receives it's authority from the dragon. For the world to "wonder after the beast" and to willingly surrender sovereignty to a global religious/state power means that the authority to which they surrender appeared benevolent, benign, designed to meet the needs of the common good, was caring and mindful of current social issues, such as the plight of the poor, environmental concerns, and gender issues. Is there a global institution currently with a leader speaking directly to those very issues, and positing itself as the only candidate with the moral mandate to lead the world into the future?

Using the authority of the dragon to do so mind you.
 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,194
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
There is a big difference between "Gods Authority" and "Man's Authority". Gods authority comes in alignment with Truth, morality amd the divine will of creation. Mans authority (like is Romans 13) is in accordance with mans own will not Gods. Like tax for example. Learn to tell the difference because as a true Christian this is critical to understand and decern the difference.
The Catholic Church did not invent the doctrine of the Trinity, (God's authority) but has the authority (given by God to man) to defend It against a string of heresies. In that sense, God's authority and man's authority are in harmony, (both/and) you turn authority into a false dichotomy (either/or), one against the other. this is critical to understand and discern the difference.

Catholic “Both/And” vs. Protestant “Either/Or” Dichotomies​

Bear in mind, first of all, that whenever one is talking about “Protestantism,” one must necessarily generalize, and there are always exceptions, since Protestants disagree with each other about virtually everything except the existence of God and the fact that they are not Catholic.

The “Catholic mindset” above all, is the willingness to submit to the judgment of the Church and Tradition, as opposed to what is called “Private judgment” on the Protestant side, whereby the individual can dissent against Church and Council if he or she feels bound to do so by virtue of what they believe is the (contrary) teaching of Scripture.

Historically, one can date this approach from Martin Luther’s “stand” at the Diet of Worms in 1521, when he appealed to Scripture alone and claimed that the Church and Councils “can and do err.” That was a big turning point.

There are lots of other things. Many people have talked about how Catholicism approaches most theological matters with a “both/and” perspective, whereas Protestants tend to dichotomize and divide things and unnecessarily pit things against each other (“either/or”). Fr. Louis Bouyer, convert from Lutheranism, has called this a “dichotomous mindset.” He wrote a wonderful book that discusses a lot of these worldview or presuppositional differences, called The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism.

Catholics are generally less individualistic, which goes along with the Protestant “mindset” of the individual and his Bible and His conscience and the Holy Spirit, etc. The Catholic always asks: “what does the Church teach about so-and-so?” “What has been the consensus of ages past and all the great saints and doctors and fathers of the Church?” Many Protestants (but not all, by many means) would think first and foremost, “what does the Bible teach about so-and-so?”

Recourse to the Church and history of doctrine often never even crosses their minds. We appeal to the Bible, too, of course (ironically, and a bit humorously, on a Protestant blog, recently, I was basically chastised for citing too much Bible!). The difference is that we don’t dismiss or discount the Church’s say in the matter. And that is because we believe in an infallible Church. Protestants do not.

I’ve also noted many times how Protestants tend to have, in effect, a “priesthood of scholars” and that they are always endlessly searching for theological truths, as if some or many can never be obtained with certitude. They want (in many ways) to “reinvent the (theological) wheel” in every generation. In the epistemological sense this is almost a reduction of the Christian faith to mere philosophy, where the quest for truth is endless and never has a definitive stopping-point in a lot of areas of inquiry.

Catholics, on the other hand, believe that most if not all major theological doctrines have long since been resolved. They still develop, and there are remaining areas where we can disagree (plenty to talk about and mull over), but by and large we accept what has been passed down as true and feel no need to endlessly “quest” and “explore” for “truth” (or to relativize doctrines where Christians disagree, as if they are unimportant).

Related Reading:

The Dichotomous Nature of Protestant Thought [Facebook, 6-20-91]
*
Protestantism: Compromising & Liberalizing Tendency [6-20-91]
*
Worldliness & Compromise: Protestant Self-Critique #2 [6-20-91]
*
Catholicism is the Ultimate Fulfillment of Protestantism (Bouyer and Chesterton)[Facebook, 6-20-91]