The "Millenium Rule" SCRIPTURES ONLY thread

[Patrick1966]

I have an idea. Please post scriptures that support millennial rule along with those that seem to say otherwise. PLEASE do NOT provide your own opinions or interpretations, ONLY the scriptures. Thank you in advance. I'll get it started with this.

Revelation 20:1-15 ESV​

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. ...

 

[Robert Gwin]

I have an idea. Please post scriptures that support millennial rule along with those that seem to say otherwise. PLEASE do NOT provide your own opinions or interpretations, ONLY the scriptures. Thank you in advance. I'll get it started with this.

Revelation 20:1-15 ESV​

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. ...

Virtually everyone you know has prayed the Lord's prayer asking for God's Kingdom to come. That Kingdom will rule for 1 millennium which will bring mankind back to the point of perfect Adam and Eve, having everlasting life v5. We have to undergo a test however, just like they did, satan will be released and have his shot at tempting us. The Bible points out that even then he will be quite successful v8, but then he will lose the war v10

Worthy of mentioning, we are very close to that Kingdom coming Pat.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Christ speaks of them holding fast until he returns, his second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After the end there will be saints who have power over the nations/gentiles!


Rev 2:27 And he (each overcoming saint) shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


So after the second coming, and after saints overcoming, and after "the end" there will be power given to the overcomers over the nations/gentiles in conjunction with a rule with a rod of iron (which breaks their organizations apart).

And of course there still needs to be a judgment day for the unsaved after this period of overcomers having "power over the nations" where there is "rule with a rod of iron".

Exactly what is found in chapters 19 and 20 of Revelation.

Same scriptures using some colored comments:


Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. (Christ speaks of the second coming, also seen in Rev 19)
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: (after the second coming the saints become overcomers, and AFTER THE END they are given power and rule over the nations/gentiles)
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Again, proof that "the end" is not the end. There is rule over the gentile nations AFTER the second coming and AFTER the "end".




Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (as seen in Rev 19 the second coming)
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (as seen in Rev 20 where some of the unsaved and satan live for a period of TIME, the thousand years)


Here also is corroboration of the Millennium where after the beast is destroyed by fire (same as in Rev 19 just prior to the Millennium) there are some beasts left alive to have their lives prolonged (for a thousand years no less), which is why satan and a large number of unsaved gentiles live through the 1000 years.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

The beast even has 3.5 years to reign over the saints, we see the same in Rev 13 about the beast overcoming the saints and having 42 months which is the same time length.




Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.



This predicts a period of time in this age, before the NHNE, where there shall be no more wars. This is another verse that corroborates Premill and the idea of a future period of time (the Millennium) before the NHNE that is peaceful and without war. Where in Amill can this war-less period of time exist within the latter days? Answer is, there is no room in Amill to have these verses fulfilled.


Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Again, after the second coming, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion and in Jerusalem, we see a period of time where the unsaved wicked are alive before receiving their punishment. This is again a small glimpse of the Millennium period corroborating the Premill understanding of Rev 20.

 

[Davy]

An example not often recognized...

1 Cor 5:3-5
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

What Apostle Paul said there in 'red' is quite revealing. That one in the Church that was guilty of having sexual intercourse with his mother, Paul suggests might still be saved in that "day of the Lord Jesus". That is pointing to the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

 

[M3n0r4h]

I have an idea. Please post scriptures that support millennial rule along with those that seem to say otherwise. PLEASE do NOT provide your own opinions or interpretations, ONLY the scriptures. Thank you in advance. I'll get it started with this.

Revelation 20:1-15 ESV​

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. ...

what is millennial rule?

 

[ewq1938]

what is millennial rule?

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Jay Ross]

The question is, "When is Christ given dominion over the Earth?"

Answer, after the heavenly hosts are judged in heaven and the king of the earth are judged on the earth and together they will be imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. Isaiah 24:21-22. Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the judgement of the heavenly hosts, the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12.

In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth are judged at a place called Armageddon. In Revelation 20:1-3 we are told that the imprisonment will be for 1,000 years.

Then in Daniel 7:13-14 we are told that Christ will be given dominion over all of the people of the whole earth.

The next question is, "How long will Christ have of uninterrupted dominion over the earth?"

For 1,000 years, Satan and the other heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth will be imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit until it is unlocked in Revelation 9 when all the entities imprisoned in the pit rise up out of the pit to bring trouble once more upon the earth. Revelation 20:7-10 also gives us a timeframe for when the uninterrupted time frame of Christ's dominion over the peoples of the earth will end.

The next question is, "From where will Christ exercise his dominion of the earth from?"

Revelation 19 gives us a description of Christ being in heaven and ruling from heaven uninterrupted for 1,000 years, until the beginning of the "Little while period," when Christ will act to capture the beast and the False Prophet, i.e., the Little Horn of the Book of Daniel, as well as Satan towards the very end of the Little While period, just before He begins the Judgement of the peoples of the earth in Heaven at the very end of the last, i.e., the seventh age.

Revelation 4 and 5 gives a description of Christ being given dominion at the beginning of the Seventh Age.

I trust that this gives a sufficient outline of Christ's Kingdom Rule.

 

[JunChosen]

YOU CANNOT DERIVE A MILLENNIAL RULE OF JESUS ON EARTH FROM REVELATION CHAPTER 20!!!

In fact, a "Thousand Years Rule of Jesus" on earth is NEVER taught anywhere in Scripture!

That is in God's plan of things, where are you going to put the timeline of the Millennial? Seeing that Matthew 24 speaks of a "Great Tribulation" that is to come, and immediately, after those days the elements (world) shall be burned up.

Then we who are alive will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and so shall we ever be with Him. 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Now, I pray tell, where are you going to put the 1,000 years reign of Jesus around the two events above, if the heavens and the elements are completely destroyed?

To God Be The Glory

 

[ewq1938]

In fact, a "Thousand Years Rule of Jesus" on earth is NEVER taught anywhere in Scripture!

Except it is.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Obviously this poster does not know the bible very well.

 

[Jay Ross]

Except it is.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Obviously this poster does not know the bible very well.

Or do you.

 

[JunChosen]

Except it is.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Obviously this poster does not know the bible very well.

What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 1 Corinthians 14:36. Lol!

We know that the Bible was written by God (2 Peter 1:21) and therefore, it CANNOT contradict itself, yet we read that Abraham is given a land, along with his seed to live in it, for ever!

As a learned individual, can you please expound between the terms, "one thousand years" as opposed to the term "for ever" so that I may gain knowledge?

To God Be The Glory

 

[ewq1938]

What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 1 Corinthians 14:36. Lol!

We know that the Bible was written by God (2 Peter 1:21) and therefore, it CANNOT contradict itself, yet we read that Abraham is given a land, along with his seed to live in it, for ever!

As a learned individual, can you please expound between the terms, "one thousand years" as opposed to the term "for ever" so that I may gain knowledge?

Let's go back to your claim, "In fact, a "Thousand Years Rule of Jesus" on earth is NEVER taught anywhere in Scripture!"

That was proven wrong by this verse:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We can also cite this one:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The end of Rev 2 places all of this after the second coming.

 

[JunChosen]

Let's go back to your claim, "In fact, a "Thousand Years Rule of Jesus" on earth is NEVER taught anywhere in Scripture!"

That was proven wrong by this verse:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I beg to differ!. Revelation 20:6 DOES NOT stipulate anywhere in that passage an earthly reign of Jesus! Just the term, "and shall reign with Him a thousand years." NO MENTION OF EARTH!!!

We can also cite this one:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The end of Rev 2 places all of this after the second coming.

The words in red above points to the NEW EARTH that God will create!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Davy]

YOU CANNOT DERIVE A MILLENNIAL RULE OF JESUS ON EARTH FROM REVELATION CHAPTER 20!!!

Yeah you can, silly.

The word millennium simply means 'a thousand'.

And the Zechariah 14 Scripture reveals Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem on the day of His future return, and He brings all His faithful saints with Him there, the Scripture says. And further, it says then there will be ONE LORD over the whole earth...

Zech 14:5-9
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
KJV

That day being the day which shall be known to The LORD is what Jesus said in Mark 13:32 that no one knows the day of His coming but only The Father.

Those "living waters" going out from Jerusalem is about the River of the Water's of Life flowing per Revelation 22, and Ezekiel 47.

And later in Zech.14, it reveals that the leftovers of those who came up against Jerusalem will be made to come up to Jerusalem in that future time and worship The KING, and keep the feast of tabernacles.

So yeah... Jesus reigns ON THE EARTH at His future return. And God's River and the Tree of Life will be manifest ON THE EARTH at that time of His future return.

 

[ewq1938]

I beg to differ!. Revelation 20:6 DOES NOT stipulate anywhere in that passage an earthly reign of Jesus! Just the term, "and shall reign with Him a thousand years." NO MENTION OF EARTH!!!

That's why I posted the other verse but where else do you think resurrected saints will rule the nations with Jesus? Mars? Of course the place is the Earth where the nations will be ruled, where Rev 5 says "Earth". Rev 2 places this rule after the second coming and He returns to the Earth, which is what a coming is all about ie: coming from heaven to the Earth. The first coming at at birth, the second is descending from the clouds downward. If someone doesn't understand he is coming to the Earth, then this is way over someone's paygrade.

The words in red above points to the NEW EARTH that God will create!

No, it's the current Earth. The reign by the overcomers happens just after the second coming according to Rev 2, and that's the current Earth.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I have an idea. Please post scriptures that support millennial rule along with those that seem to say otherwise. PLEASE do NOT provide your own opinions or interpretations, ONLY the scriptures. Thank you in advance. I'll get it started with this.

​

Dear Patrick1966,

Consider this verse:

Ecc 6:5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other. 6 Yea, though he live twice a thousand years, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

This verse is speaking about carnal mankind. Mankind is spiritually dead and does not know anything, nor has mankind ever seen the "sun". The scripture continues and mentions that even that even if mankind lives a "thousand years" twice, he still sees no good and will still go to the same place (death).

So what is this scripture teaching?

It is written in Christ's spiritual language which uses words which have meanings that are different from what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13).

Here is the scripture's spiritual meaning:

Mankind is carnal and it is mankind's carnality which veils him from knowing Christ. Christ is the Sun (Psa 84:11) which mankind has never seen. If this verse is to be understood carnally, mankind has surely seen the sun. But because the verse is spiritual, it is teaching that mankind is so spiritually blind, they have never "seen" Christ. Next comes the reference to the thousand years which relates to the Thousand Years reign of Christ. It says that even if a man live a thousand years twice, he will still see no good (Christ) and will still end in one place (death).

To understand what this scripture is teaching, one must understand that the Thousand Years reign of Christ happens "twice". It is a spiritual reign which happens in two different ages. Both times the Elect will reign with Christ.

In Revelation 20:1-5, the Thousand Years reign is teaching on the first time it occurs. It occurs in this age within ALL the Elect at their time of conversion. The Thousand Years reign is a spiritual symbol for the Judgment of Christ which is also called the Day of the Lord. However, the Thousand Years reign carries a deeper meaning to teach more of what happens during that time of judgment.

Here is what happens during the first time the Thousand Years reign occurs (as presented in Revelation Chapter 19):

In this age, the Elect will be "born again" as a child of God. This happens when Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain. This is the same event as represented by the symbol "Marriage of the Lamb" presented in Rev 19:7. At the time of the new birth, the believer's spiritual blindness is healed and they come out from seeing Christ carnally. They now see Christ spiritually which is the only way anyone can "see" the true Christ. Once they do, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:9) will begin. This event occurs when Christ feeds the new child of God His truth for the first time. Once the child of God is sufficiently nourished by the truth, the Day of the Lord will arrive. During this time of the Elect believer's judgment, the new child of God (who is sinless and spiritual) will symbolically ride with Christ over their own judgment. The judgment is on the believer's chaff/tares which represents their carnality which was made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43:45) by the spirit of anti-Christ. Since the believer is now a child of God, they are not judged, but will instead, reign with Christ for a "thousand years" during their own judgment. After the thousand years are complete, the believer will be converted. Rev 20:5 calls this entire spiritual process of conversion the "First Resurrection". This term represents the spiritual resurrection of an Elect person and is when they are "saved". It all happens during their lifetime before they physically die.

The second time the Thousand Years Reign occurs is when the "lost" of the final age are judged. This verse applies:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Joel chapter 2 describes the Elect as they reign with Christ during this thousand years:

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. 3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. 4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. 5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Before the thousand years reign is completed over the "lost", Christ will have "pity" on them and He will pour out the Early and Latter Rains:

Joel 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people...23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the Early Rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the Early Rain, and the Latter Rain in the first month.

The new child of God will then be born in heaven. The judgment of the "lost" will then continue in the Lake of Fire until it is complete.

Consider what Christ said to the Pharisees concerning the Law:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's administration of the Law in judgment is not like the Pharisees' judgment. Christ will not pervert judgment (Job 34:12) and will not omit mercy and faith when He judges a person. For this reason, Christ will give the "lost" of the final age the same salvation that He earlier gave to the Elect.

In the end, after the last person of mankind is saved, mankind will cease to exist. Mankind, because of their sin, is condemned to die:

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (all mankind) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

But because of the work of Christ, the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

Joe

 

[Davy]

Dear Patrick1966,

Consider this verse:

Ecc 6:5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other. 6 Yea, though he live twice a thousand years, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

This verse is speaking about carnal mankind. Mankind is spiritually dead and does not know anything, nor has mankind ever seen the "sun". The scripture continues and mentions that even that even if mankind lives a "thousand years" twice, he still sees no good and will still go to the same place (death).

So what is this scripture teaching?

It is written in Christ's spiritual language which uses words which have meanings that are different from what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13).

Here is the scripture's spiritual meaning:

Mankind is carnal and it is mankind's carnality which veils him from knowing Christ. Christ is the Sun (Psa 84:11) which mankind has never seen. If this verse is to be understood carnally, mankind has surely seen the sun. But because the verse is spiritual, it is teaching that mankind is so spiritually blind, they have never "seen" Christ. Next comes the reference to the thousand years which relates to the Thousand Years reign of Christ. It says that even if a man live a thousand years twice, he will still see no good (Christ) and will still end in one place (death).

To understand what this scripture is teaching, one must understand that the Thousand Years reign of Christ happens "twice". It is a spiritual reign which happens in two different ages. Both times the Elect will reign with Christ.

In Revelation 20:1-5, the Thousand Years reign is teaching on the first time it occurs. It occurs in this age within ALL the Elect at their time of conversion. The Thousand Years reign is a spiritual symbol for the Judgment of Christ which is also called the Day of the Lord. However, the Thousand Years reign carries a deeper meaning to teach more of what happens during that time of judgment.

Here is what happens during the first time the Thousand Years reign occurs (as presented in Revelation Chapter 19):

In this age, the Elect will be "born again" as a child of God. This happens when Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain. This is the same event as represented by the symbol "Marriage of the Lamb" presented in Rev 19:7. At the time of the new birth, the believer's spiritual blindness is healed and they come out from seeing Christ carnally. They now see Christ spiritually which is the only way anyone can "see" the true Christ. Once they do, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:9) will begin. This event occurs when Christ feeds the new child of God His truth for the first time. Once the child of God is sufficiently nourished by the truth, the Day of the Lord will arrive. During this time of the Elect believer's judgment, the new child of God (who is sinless and spiritual) will symbolically ride with Christ over their own judgment. The judgment is on the believer's chaff/tares which represents their carnality which was made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43:45) by the spirit of anti-Christ. Since the believer is now a child of God, they are not judged, but will instead, reign with Christ for a "thousand years" during their own judgment. After the thousand years are complete, the believer will be converted. Rev 20:5 calls this entire spiritual process of conversion the "First Resurrection". This term represents the spiritual resurrection of an Elect person and is when they are "saved". It all happens during their lifetime before they physically die.

The second time the Thousand Years Reign occurs is when the "lost" of the final age are judged. This verse applies:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Joel chapter 2 describes the Elect as they reign with Christ during this thousand years:

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. 3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. 4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. 5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Before the thousand years reign is completed over the "lost", Christ will have "pity" on them and He will pour out the Early and Latter Rains:

Joel 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people...23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the Early Rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the Early Rain, and the Latter Rain in the first month.

The new child of God will then be born in heaven. The judgment of the "lost" will then continue in the Lake of Fire until it is complete.

Consider what Christ said to the Pharisees concerning the Law:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's administration of the Law in judgment is not like the Pharisees' judgment. Christ will not pervert judgment (Job 34:12) and will not omit mercy and faith when He judges a person. For this reason, Christ will give the "lost" of the final age the same salvation that He earlier gave to the Elect.

In the end, after the last person of mankind is saved, mankind will cease to exist. Mankind, because of their sin, is condemned to die:

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (all mankind) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

But because of the work of Christ, the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

Joe

Oh my goodness, there's the Alexandrian mystics again!

The simplicity that is God's Word is not for us to 'spiritualize', just because God uses allegory, metaphor, and parable in His Word.

Spiritualizing God's Word is what got Origen (of the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt) excommunicated. It is what later ones like Jacob Boheme did, a poor shoe cobbler that wrote mysticism books loosely based on The Bible. It is what many have done that have wrongly fell to darkness with mysticism.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Oh my goodness, there's the Alexandrian mystics again!

The simplicity that is God's Word is not for us to 'spiritualize', just because God uses allegory, metaphor, and parable in His Word.

Spiritualizing God's Word is what got Origen (of the Christian school at Alexandria, Egypt) excommunicated. It is what later ones like Jacob Boheme did, a poor shoe cobbler that wrote mysticism books loosely based on The Bible. It is what many have done that have wrongly fell to darkness with mysticism.

Dear Davy,

You (like all called out believers) are spiritually blind. It is unavoidable. Paul dealt with this same issue with the churches he started;

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

God's Word is written in "spirit" words:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.

The reason it is written in Christ's spirit words is to keep the truth hidden from all but the converted Elect who have received both the Early and Latter Rains:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

A believer can only understand the spiritual language of Christ after they receive the Latter Rain and have been "born again". Carnal mankind and carnal believers in the church (Early Rain only) cannot understand the "another language" which Christ uses in scripture. For this reason, the church has fallen "backward" and has been "broken, and snared and taken" by the spirit of anti-Christ. They are following "another Jesus" and "another gospel":

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Though Paul did not write much about it, he did verbally warn (with tears) his churches for three years that the apostasy was coming.

Nothing has changed in the church since it became apostate. Satan is still masquerading as Christ and is still killing the saints by his "another gospel" which teaches a mixture of works and faith.

This false gospel is so deceptive that Christ said that it could even deceive the very Elect if they had not been converted prior it its coming into the world.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Because Satan's gospel is so deceptive, it is accepted by all unconverted believers. Once they have accepted it, they will only "buy and sell" (be taught or teach) from those who likewise have the mark of the beast:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The number for mankind is six. The number for fallen away believers in the apostate church is 666. The number six is repeated three times to represent the spiritual process the spirit of anti-Christ causes a called out believer to experience. After this process is complete, the believer will be made "worse than the first":

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is WORSE THAN THE FIRST. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet/Man of Sin/Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

When Christ comes a second time to one of His Elect who are in this fallen away "worse than the first" condition, He will pour out the Latter Rain and heal their spiritual blindness. When He does, the Man of Sin will be revealed to them and they will find that he is the one who is looking back at them in the mirror.

The spiritually blind church does not understand the truths that I presented above. They are following Satan instead of Christ and are "dwelling in peace and safety" (1Thes 5:3) in his apostate church.

Everyone (includes the Elect) who is called into the church in this age will experience this Day of Evil in the apostate church. It is a step on the pathway to salvation the Elect will follow. I experienced it just as you are experiencing it now. It cannot be avoided:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

For the Elect's sake, their days in the apostate church will be shortened (Mat 24:22), but for those who are called and not chosen, they will remain in the apostate church until they physically die. They will then be resurrected to judgment with the unbelievers. And as I pointed out in my first post, Christ will eventually have "pity" upon them and will pour out the Early and Latter Rains. After the last person is saved, God will be "all in all" (1Cor 15:28).

Joe

 

[Davy]

Dear Davy,

You (like all called out believers) are spiritually blind. It is unavoidable. Paul dealt with this same issue with the churches he started;

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

God's Word is written in "spirit" words:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.

I actually do... understand the difference.

When Apostle Paul was speaking of 'spiritual' matters he was pointing to the things of that 'other' dimension of existence, the Heavenly dimension. Some of Paul's most spiritual writings can be found in 2 Corinthians 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 where he revealed about the heavenly "spiritual body" that we all have in addition to our flesh body.

So don't try to tell me I don't understand the difference between carnal thinking and spiritual thinking which deals with HEAVENLY things.

What has got brethren like you trapped in the wrong... thinking is that word 'spiritual', which in your mind it is NOT the same idea that God's Word is talking about, no matter how many verses you 'try' to use to back yourself up. Here's why I say this, which I'm trying to teach you something here... not mock you:

You said:
"Mankind is carnal and it is mankind's carnality which veils him from knowing Christ. Christ is the Sun (Psa 84:11) which mankind has never seen. If this verse is to be understood carnally, mankind has surely seen the sun. But because the verse is spiritual, it is teaching that mankind is so spiritually blind, they have never "seen" Christ. Next comes the reference to the thousand years which relates to the Thousand Years reign of Christ. It says that even if a man live a thousand years twice, he will still see no good (Christ) and will still end in one place (death)."

Man is not flesh (carnal) only, he has a spirit and soul also. What separates man from Christ is the sin in the Garden by Adam and Eve, which all have been concluded under so that the promise by Faith might be to those who believe on Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ is DEFINITELY NOT THE SUN, even though you may think the sun can be used to represent Christ as Light because of verses like Malachi 4:2 which is often mistranslated. Pagans worshiped the sun, and God does not like being compared with the objects of His creation (Romans 1; Ezekiel 8).

And the whole point of the Ecclesiastes 6:5 verse that you are 'spiritualizing' is much more simple than you are making it. Solomon is simply showing how life in this world, according to his 'personal' view, is vanity. Well, it is not complete vanity, not for those who do The LORD's will. So when reading Solomon's writings, one has to take a lot of what he says with a grain of salt. Afterall, God rent the kingdom from Solomon because of his fall to paganism by allowing his many pagan wives to influence him, and bring their idols in among the children of Israel. Solomon had succumbed to use of cannabis, probably gotten from some of his many pagan wives. Solomon simply was comparing this temporary present world with God's perfect world to come. He was comparing the concept of 'death' with Life. That is where 'spiritual understanding' with 'eyes to see, and ears to hear' comes in. It's not about some mystical interpretation like the Occultists did back in the dark ages with their many comparisons of Christ with things of creation.

And Solomon's reference to 'twice' a thousand years is NOT a reference to Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20. Just because you see the word 'thousand' in Scripture does not necessarily mean it is pointing to Christ's future reign. Solomon is simply giving a long period of time in comparison to those without God and His goodness. It's not a reference to Christ, but a comparison between good and evil...

So staying... with the FLOW of the Scripture, one should be able to grasp that Solomon is simply comparing an 'evil' with what is 'good'...

Eccl 6:1-4
6 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:

2 A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.

3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

4 For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness.
KJV

 

[M3n0r4h]

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

the only scriptures that appear to support the Millennium doctrine are found in one single chapter of the Bible in Revelation.

the rest of the Bible utterly contradicts it.

maybe the title of the thread should've been 'Share your favorite Revelation 20 verse.'