Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

[Bob Estey]

In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity,
we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity.

Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes)
What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How far apart can we get?

Build bridges, not walls.

I am not big on cultural "diversity," since it seems to demand we forsake God's teaching regarding homosexuality. Even so, I don't see why Catholics and Protestants can't respect each other, or Baptists and Pentecostals, or Christians and Muslims.

 

[St. SteVen]

I am not big on cultural "diversity," since it seems to demand we forsake God's teaching regarding homosexuality.

This is an issue the church needs to grapple with. LGBTQ
We seem to have gotten past the women in leadership issue. What's next?
Previously we believed that "God's teaching" was against women in leadership, correct?
How strong is that case against homosexuality, especially in a committed relationship?

I suppose those who already hate me on this forum will accuse me of being gay now. (sigh)

 

[Bob Estey]

This is an issue the church needs to grapple with. LGBTQ
We seem to have gotten past the women in leadership issue. What's next?
Previously we believed that "God's teaching" was against women in leadership, correct?
How strong is that case against homosexuality, especially in a committed relationship?

I suppose those who already hate me on this forum will accuse me of being gay now. (sigh)

I have no problem with women in church leadership. Neither God nor Jesus said they couldn't lead. God appointed Deborah to rule over Israel for a period of time.

But God is very clear about homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22).

 

[St. SteVen]

God is very clear about homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22).

That's old covenant law. What is the case under the new covenant?

 

[Bob Estey]

That's old covenant law. What is the case under the new covenant?

I want a yes or no answer:

God said homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus18:22). Was he wrong?

 

[amadeus]

I want a yes or no answer:

God said homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus18:22). Was he wrong?

Has God changed His mind about what is abominable?

Mal 3:6

For I am the LORD, I change not...

Jas 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

 

[Bob Estey]

Has God changed His mind about what is abominable?

Mal 3:6

For I am the LORD, I change not...

Jas 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

No.

 

[St. SteVen]

I want a yes or no answer:

God said homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus18:22). Was he wrong?

You cherry-picked one verse out of the whole chapter to satisfy your preconception.
Did you read the whole chapter? To whom was it written, and why?

This verse approves polygamy in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines.
Neither of those is listed as detestable.

Leviticus 18:18 NIV
‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

 

[St. SteVen]

Has God changed His mind about what is abominable?

Did he change his mind about the law? Before > Until > Now

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[St. SteVen]

This verse approves polygamy in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines.
Neither of those is listed as detestable.

Leviticus 18:18 NIV
‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: concubine

www.biblegateway.com

36 Bible results for “concubine” from the New International Version.

 

[Bob Estey]

You cherry-picked one verse out of the whole chapter to satisfy your preconception.
Did you read the whole chapter? To whom was it written, and why?

This verse approves polygamy in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines.
Neither of those is listed as detestable.

Leviticus 18:18 NIV
‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

Where was my yes or no answer?

 

[amadeus]

Did he change his mind about the law? Before > Until > Now

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Or perhaps God had the whole thing in His plan [all that is related in the written Bible] beforehand! God did not change. Men invoked the blessings {right hand} or curses {left hand} of God by their own decisions and/or actions.

 

[St. SteVen]

Where was my yes or no answer?

Maybe we could work out a trade?

I'll say yes, that verse says that, if you agree the chapter approves of polygamy (rival wives)
in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines. (no disapproval by God)

Yes, or no?

 

[St. SteVen]

Or perhaps God had the whole thing in His plan [all that is related in the written Bible] beforehand! God did not change. Men invoked the blessings {right hand} or curses {left hand} of God by their own decisions and/or actions.

Yes, of course.
But it does show a difference in expectation. A new deal.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Wrangler]

Not sure where to put this. Some claim that if we truly have the Spirit, there will be no division among us. 1 Samual 16:13 says "from that day on" would fall upon David. Yet, later David himself committed adultery and murder. What are we to make of this.

 

[amadeus]

Yes, of course.
But it does show a difference in expectation. A new deal.

A difference in expectation for you or for me but never having actually lived in that time and culture how well... if at all... do we understand the differences?

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

So then now if we have the Holy Spirit and the Bible, is not more required of us by God than would have been required of a person, a natural Jew [offspring of Jacob/Israel] living in that time and culture? Is our unchanging God not always fair and no respecter of persons? Who else could fairly judge people of such different cultures and such different gifts and possibilities?

What are we doing with what we have?

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not sure where to put this. Some claim that if we truly have the Spirit, there will be no division among us. 1 Samual 16:13 says "from that day on" would fall upon David. Yet, later David himself committed adultery and murder. What are we to make of this.

Paul and Barnabas parted ways over a disagreement. (division)
Ultimately I think this was a benefit, but... ???


BTW: Feel free to join this discussion. (everyone)

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there

Much discussion in another area of the forum about UNITY and what it means, and doesn't mean. Many seek doctrinal unity. But we discovered that they haven't accounted for the necessary compromise to make that happen. What they really want is for everyone to JOIN their doctrinal tribe so...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Bob Estey]

Maybe we could work out a trade?

I'll say yes, that verse says that, if you agree the chapter approves of polygamy (rival wives)
in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines. (no disapproval by God)

Yes, or no?

I just want a yes or no answer. Was God wrong when he said homosexuality is an abomination?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Maybe we could work out a trade?
I'll say yes, that verse says that, if you agree the chapter approves of polygamy (rival wives)
in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines. (no disapproval by God)
Yes, or no?

I just want a yes or no answer. Was God wrong when he said homosexuality is an abomination?

I see.
You want, a yes or no answer, but I won't get one.

What is the "rival wife" that was permitted in verse eighteen? (not an abomination)
The only prohibition was that he not have sexual relations with her (his wife’s sister) while his wife was still living.
In fact the KJV indicates that all three are "sleeping" together.

Leviticus 18:18 NIV
‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

 

[Bob Estey]

St. SteVen said:
Maybe we could work out a trade?
I'll say yes, that verse says that, if you agree the chapter approves of polygamy (rival wives)
in a culture where women were property and slave girls were concubines. (no disapproval by God)
Yes, or no?

I see.
You want, a yes or no answer, but I won't get one.

What is the "rival wife" that was permitted in verse eighteen? (not an abomination)
The only prohibition was that he not have sexual relations with her (his wife’s sister) while his wife was still living.
In fact the KJV indicates that all three are "sleeping" together.

Leviticus 18:18 NIV
‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

If you can't answer yes or no, then you should see that you are wrong.

And here is something else: You said I cherry-picked Leviticus 18:22. Okay, how many times does God has to say something before you obey?