The Unity and Division threads - Unified to one topic - Divided by links

[St. SteVen]

People must follow Jesus and be led by Him into the real unity of the Body of Christ.

What does "real unity" look like?

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[amadeus]

I have studied/written extensively about this subject. Six or seven topic links in the OP.

Doctrinal unity doesn't exist and never will. IMHO
Here's the most important question that I discovered about this subject. Which became a topic title.

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?​

The resounding response from posters on the topic was, "NO WAY!"
Although, I suppose that is the Protestant response.

The core concern is WHO decides what set of doctrines EVERYONE will align under.
The knee-jerk reaction is to say, "The Bible." Problem being, there is no consensus on what the Bible means.

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Do not put limits on God. You say that doctrinal unity will never exist thereby doubting the power of our God.

Would I surrender my own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity? Yes [a resounding response], if and when the Holy Spirit led and directed me to do so.

Who decides what doctrines for everyone to align under? God does.

Is anyone already where God wants him to be in this? God knows!

Is what is written in the "Bible" involved in God decision? I believe so, yes, but again let us not insist on putting God in my own, or your own or someone else's own box! Let God leads us!

 

[amadeus]

What does "real unity" look like?

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Those who now have the "eyes to see" know the answer. Who are they?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but Then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

When is the Then?

 

[St. SteVen]

Those who now have the "eyes to see" know the answer. Who are they?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but Then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

When is the Then?

That means not in this lifetime, correct?

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[amadeus]

That means not in this lifetime, correct?

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How well was Jesus able to see the things of God while he walked as a man on planet Earth? How much like Jesus are we able to be while we walk here on planet Earth? Consider the man whose eyes Jesus touched a second time here:

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Did the man have to wait until his physical lifetime was ended before his physical vision was fully restored? Why should we have to wait before our spiritual eyes are able to see the things of God clearly? Is God not able?

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic available.

What becomes of our faith if the Genesis account is NOT literal?

This point causes me a massive amount of cognitive dissonance. (something most won't admit) The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal. - The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error) - Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when) - If Adam wasn't...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Windmill Charge]

You created a hypothetical situation that would not happen at my church.

No I have merely responded to your post and replies which at no point have been critical of false teaching, if anything your posts have emptied a willing acceptance of such teaching.

 

[St. SteVen]

No I have merely responded to your post and replies which at no point have been critical of false teaching, if anything your posts have emptied a willing acceptance of such teaching.

That's a common misconception about me.

I am always willing to hear someone give their views without casting judgment. That doesn't mean that I receive or accept everything they say. I only seek to understand them.

I probably allow more latitude in the beliefs of others than you do, Which you see as a concern. I appreciate that. Thanks.

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[St. SteVen]

@ShineTheLight

Consider this topic when you have concerns about division. Thanks.

] cc: @Wynona

 

[Brakelite]

I like the response from @Rita in post #5. Thanks, Rita! Well said.

Differences = held opinions
Unity = accepting others despite differences

We tend to fight over differences of opinion. This is where division comes from.
If we can discuss differences and accept others, this is where unity comes from.

You might say that someone's opinion is unbiblical, therefore should not be acceptable.
But typically they had biblical reasons for their opinion, therefore it was NOT unbiblical.

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Two opposing views cannot both be biblical.

 

[St. SteVen]

Two opposing views cannot both be biblical.

I'm familiar with that claim. Vote.

Does the Bible contradict itself? - Reader Poll (and discussion)

Discussion questions: - Is it even possible that the Bible could contradict itself? - Why would that be impossible? - If it did contradict itself, would that be bad for the Bible? - Does the Bible promise not to contradict itself? - Would it be harmful to your faith if the Bible was found to be...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Galgal]

Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

God in the Bible offered a simple way to shut our mouths for our arguments: the wedding feast in the Third Temple. When the mouths are busy chewing food, everyone is silent.

24 refectory halls on three sides of the outer courtyard, each hall with 8 tables, each table with 12 seats, in the four corners of the outer courtyard are kitchens where kebabs are fried for the feast. A feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

 

[Hiddenthings]

God in the Bible offered a simple way to shut our mouths for our arguments: the wedding feast in the Third Temple. When the mouths are busy chewing food, everyone is silent.

24 refectory halls on three sides of the outer courtyard, each hall with 8 tables, each table with 12 seats, in the four corners of the outer courtyard are kitchens where kebabs are fried for the feast. A feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

You would turn the house of God into a Kebab stand?

 

[St. SteVen]

The Unity and Division threads - Unified to one topic - Divided by links​

Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ​

A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division. ]

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."​

...follow-up to the two previous topics: https://www.christianityboard.com/t...r-your-own-beliefs-in-the-cause-of-doctrinal-unity.56191/ https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/unity-of-the-faith-at-what-cost.56095/ - Do you have the right to allow the Holy Spirit to...

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?​

This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...

Unity of the faith - at what cost?​

The call for doctrinal unity has gone out across the centuries. Are we there yet? (not by a long shot) Where is the problem? Perhaps it is in the assumption that the unity of the faith is doctrinal unity. - Can there be unity of the faith that overlooks doctrinal differences? - Does the Body...

Unity in exclusivity is mere tribalism - Nothing special there​

Much discussion in another area of the forum about UNITY and what it means, and doesn't mean. Many seek doctrinal unity. But we discovered that they haven't accounted for the necessary compromise to make that happen. What they really want is for everyone to JOIN their doctrinal tribe so...

Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity​

In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity, we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity. Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes) What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How...

The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity​

What's your view on the final judgement? Here are the three popular biblical views: 1) Damnationism 2) Annihilationism 3) Universalism All three views are biblical, all three views are in DIRECT conflict.

 

[Brakelite]

Who else do you trust with your eternal destiny? While doctrine per se does not explicitly or directly impact your salvation, doctrine does directly impact your attitude and thinking regarding God's character and goodness. And your response to that goodness, whether positive or negative, does directly affect your salvation. Your doctrine speaks of what you believe about God. Who He is. His attitude toward you, righteousness, and sin. What He is like. If the doctrine is false, and your belief as a result is that God cannot be loved or trusted, then you will be lost, for we are saved by grace through faith. If we cannot accept grace, then what is our faith in? To whom or what do we turn? Science? Government? The church?

If we cannot deliberately and with free will choose what doctrines we believe or reject, then in who's power are you willing to place your eternal destiny that they may choose your doctrine on your behalf?

 

[St. SteVen]

Who else do you trust with your eternal destiny? While doctrine per se does not explicitly or directly impact your salvation, doctrine does directly impact your attitude and thinking regarding God's character and goodness. And your response to that goodness, whether positive or negative, does directly affect your salvation.

I tend to hold man-made doctrine at arms' length.
Some of it is helpful, much of it is not. IMHO

Your doctrine speaks of what you believe about God. Who He is. His attitude toward you, righteousness, and sin. What He is like. If the doctrine is false, and your belief as a result is that God cannot be loved or trusted, then you will be lost, for we are saved by grace through faith. If we cannot accept grace, then what is our faith in? To whom or what do we turn? Science? Government? The church?

My personal "doctrine" tends to revolve around my view of God's character.

If we cannot deliberately and with free will choose what doctrines we believe or reject, then in who's power are you willing to place your eternal destiny that they may choose your doctrine on your behalf?

My eternal destiny is not a matter of what doctrines I choose to accept or reject.
A personal relationship with God is key to my eternal security.

 

[One 2 question]

A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division. ]

Hey just had a thought on division and unity in the church.

What if Christ wants to prevent unity. Unity in the sense of a super mega global alliance that has one appointed leader to head up a global objective.

To reach Godship and become a God. And that they all agree to make this person the first one, then make another and another until every member attains godship.

A bit like at the tower of Babel. I guess the speaking in tongues and different language within the church has caused division and prevents unity today amoung MANY other things.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hey just had a thought on division and unity in the church.

What if Christ wants to prevent unity. Unity in the sense of a super mega global alliance that has one appointed leader to head up a global objective.

Reminds me of what the RCC has done. With a Pope at the top. They even have a magisterium to determine biblical interpretation.

Most Protestants bristle at the question: Would you surrender your own beliefs for the cause of doctrinal unity?

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?​

This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...

 

[One 2 question]

Most Protestants bristle at the question: Would you surrender your own beliefs for the cause of doctrinal unity?

Good question. Would you?

 

[St. SteVen]

Good question. Would you?

Of course not.
The task of rightly dividing is not left up to the institutional church.