Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

Of course Adam had free will, if he hadn't he wouldn't have sinned.

Based on what Scripture, RR144?

No place in Scripture states that Adam was imparted a free-will, so the only way for you to think that Adam had a free-will is for you to add to Scripture.

The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God​

Many people preach that God has a free-will.

The common free-willian refrain is along the lines of "God has freewill. Christ has freewill. Man was made in their image/likeness. Result? = Man has free will." (an actual free-willian quote).

So, the free-willian philosophy holds that God free-will chooses to change between good and evil, and, since God created man in God's image according to God's likeness (Genesis 1:26), then man does precisely the same as God; therefore, man free-will chooses to change between good and evil.

A Will Requires A Host​

First, the definition of free must be considered.

Free denotes:

1. of autonomy:
   • (noun) no constraint, uncontrolled, liberty, not enslaved, emancipation.
   • (verb) disentangled, extricate, untangle.
2. of property:
   • (noun) complimentary, without charge, gratis, no payment required.
   • (verb) give away, sacrifice.

The subject is not of property regarding free-will, so the subject is focused of autonomy regarding free-will.

The word "free" represents a relative concept, as shown in the following paragraph; in other words, a person is "free" from "something".

A person in a constitutional republic, such as the U.S.A., is free to start a business (free from being captives of the tyranny of the King of Great Britain per the U.S. Declaration of Independence), but a person in a communist country, such as North Korea, is NOT free to start a business (communist citizens are captives (owned) by their government).

Second, the definition of free-will must be considered.

Free-will: an autonomous will, an isolated willpower, detached volition, independent moral agency.

Next, considering "will", a will exists not in a vacuum; in other words, a will must be part of a host.

Respecting an unsaved person - the default first condition of every person, since a host (person) is required to host a will, then the person's will is part of the person's self, so the person's will is self-will because the person'a will is attached to the self-same person; on the other hand, the person's will is not free floating detached from the person, so the person's will is not free-will.

The Apostle proclaims a person's will is either one of but not both of:

• a person's will is controlled by God with "God having purified your souls in the obedience of the Truth through the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22) and "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• a person's will is controlled by man with "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

A person's will is dependent upon God (Christimage-will (bond-will), Romans 8:29), or a person's will is dependent upon man (self-will, 2 Peter 2:9-10). No other will exists for a person; moreover, free-will is an illusion as conveyed by the Apostle Paul with "I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).

While the unrighteous unbelievers daringly revel in their own glory founded in their self-willed "I chose Jesus" (2 Peter 2:9-10) thus their hearts steal King Jesus Christ's glory, on the other hand, we righteousness of God in Christ believers worship the Glorious One (2 Corinthians 5:21) who sovereignly chose us (John 15:16, John 15:19 includes salvation).

Thus says Adonai YHWH (Lord GOD) "I am YHWH; that is my name; my glory I give to no other" (Isaiah 42:8), yet the free-willians try to steal God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man.

God's Will is not free will because a free-will does not have a host, yet a host is required for an associated will to exist; therefore, the Will of God is God's Will. See God's Will mentioned in 1 Peter 2:15.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT GOD HAS A FREE-WILL.

God is unchangingly good (Malachi 3:6, Psalm 107:1) for the Word of God says "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so God is exclusively good all the time while at the same time God never changes to being evil.

In effect, free-willian philosophy includes that God imparted God-like free-will into man, and it is established that man free-will chooses between being good and being evil according to man's God-like free-will; therefore, God's free-will results in God fluctuating between good and evil because man's God-like free-will fluctuates between good and evil, so God changes to being evil by free-willian philosophers preaching that God has free-will.

THE RESULT, MAN CANNOT HAVE A GOD-LIKE FREE-WILL BECAUSE GOD CANNOT HAVE A FREE-WILL.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN HAS A FREE-WILL.

Free-will philosophy includes the man generated foundation that, by free-will, man can choose to be evil or good, even the ability for a natural man to free-will choose Jesus Christ unto the good of saving himself from the wrath of God.

The Word of God declares:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Ezra]

Based on what Scripture, RR144?

No place in Scripture states that Adam was imparted a free-will, so the only way for you to think that Adam had a free-will is for you to add to Scripture.

The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God​

Many people preach that God has a free-will.

The common free-willian refrain is along the lines of "God has freewill. Christ has freewill. Man was made in their image/likeness. Result? = Man has free will." (an actual free-willian quote).

So, the free-willian philosophy holds that God free-will chooses to change between good and evil, and, since God created man in God's image according to God's likeness (Genesis 1:26), then man does precisely the same as God; therefore, man free-will chooses to change between good and evil.

A Will Requires A Host​

First, the definition of free must be considered.

Free denotes:

1. of autonomy:
   • (noun) no constraint, uncontrolled, liberty, not enslaved, emancipation.
   • (verb) disentangled, extricate, untangle.
2. of property:
   • (noun) complimentary, without charge, gratis, no payment required.
   • (verb) give away, sacrifice.

The subject is not of property regarding free-will, so the subject is focused of autonomy regarding free-will.

The word "free" represents a relative concept, as shown in the following paragraph; in other words, a person is "free" from "something".

A person in a constitutional republic, such as the U.S.A., is free to start a business (free from being captives of the tyranny of the King of Great Britain per the U.S. Declaration of Independence), but a person in a communist country, such as North Korea, is NOT free to start a business (communist citizens are captives (owned) by their government).

Second, the definition of free-will must be considered.

Free-will: an autonomous will, an isolated willpower, detached volition, independent moral agency.

Next, considering "will", a will exists not in a vacuum; in other words, a will must be part of a host.

Respecting an unsaved person - the default first condition of every person, since a host (person) is required to host a will, then the person's will is part of the person's self, so the person's will is self-will because the person'a will is attached to the self-same person; on the other hand, the person's will is not free floating detached from the person, so the person's will is not free-will.

The Apostle proclaims a person's will is either one of but not both of:

• a person's will is controlled by God with "God having purified your souls in the obedience of the Truth through the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22) and "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• a person's will is controlled by man with "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

A person's will is dependent upon God (Christimage-will (bond-will), Romans 8:29), or a person's will is dependent upon man (self-will, 2 Peter 2:9-10). No other will exists for a person; moreover, free-will is an illusion as conveyed by the Apostle Paul with "I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).

While the unrighteous unbelievers daringly revel in their own glory founded in their self-willed "I chose Jesus" (2 Peter 2:9-10) thus their hearts steal King Jesus Christ's glory, on the other hand, we righteousness of God in Christ believers worship the Glorious One (2 Corinthians 5:21) who sovereignly chose us (John 15:16, John 15:19 includes salvation).

Thus says Adonai YHWH (Lord GOD) "I am YHWH; that is my name; my glory I give to no other" (Isaiah 42:8), yet the free-willians try to steal God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man.

God's Will is not free will because a free-will does not have a host, yet a host is required for an associated will to exist; therefore, the Will of God is God's Will. See God's Will mentioned in 1 Peter 2:15.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT GOD HAS A FREE-WILL.

God is unchangingly good (Malachi 3:6, Psalm 107:1) for the Word of God says "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so God is exclusively good all the time while at the same time God never changes to being evil.

In effect, free-willian philosophy includes that God imparted God-like free-will into man, and it is established that man free-will chooses between being good and being evil according to man's God-like free-will; therefore, God's free-will results in God fluctuating between good and evil because man's God-like free-will fluctuates between good and evil, so God changes to being evil by free-willian philosophers preaching that God has free-will.

THE RESULT, MAN CANNOT HAVE A GOD-LIKE FREE-WILL BECAUSE GOD CANNOT HAVE A FREE-WILL.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN HAS A FREE-WILL.

Free-will philosophy includes the man generated foundation that, by free-will, man can choose to be evil or good, even the ability for a natural man to free-will choose Jesus Christ unto the good of saving himself from the wrath of God.

The Word of God declares:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

what in God green earth has this to do with adam and eve eating the forbidder fruit you have completely and i do mean completely ignored James and romans yield to. put your man made Calvinism strange fire away. nice copy and paste you get this from a Calvinist web page ?

 

[Nancy]

You neglected to address your misapplication of Scripture, again, which is typical of free-willians.

You are wrong, but God is right.

You say "I chose Jesus", yet Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The strange doctrine of "Calvinism" that you repeat is foreign to Christianity because the Christ of us Christians declares who we are and who God is! God reigns sovereign in the affairs of mankind (DANIEL 4:34-35), but you emotion that God doesn't reign sovereign in the affairs of mankind.

Now, Nancy, let's visit your emotions of which you brought up, but you failed to follow up.

• A couple of years ago in this thread you bailed on correspondence in which you were shown your proof text for God being outside of time so you can choose Jesus actually shows time reference with "the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to have been already done in eternity. (proof link).
• Recently, you show no signal of repentance for your writing of "that is a choice" toward God regarding Philippians 2:12-13 (proof link) even after God has me proclaim to you that we Christians "work out" our "salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) because God works in us (Philippians 2:13).

Nancy, those emotional changes of yours to Scripture fail to earn you eternal life. You must believe in Jesus in order to have eternal life - you must believe the Word of God who says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6) and the Light (John 1:3) so we Christian's every good work is wrought in God by God's grace for God's glory!

You claim ownership of your works.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

So you think I will remember whatever post you are speaking of from a couple years ago?? I can't even remember what day it is half the time! And, you are also calling me a liar! It seems your only goal here is to condemn me and throw doubt into me, as ALL Calvinists I know personally, do!
As I am also pretty certain that I asked you politely several times to not suck me into your dark world of roboticism. NOT INTERESTED! This doctrine of men/demons will never wash with me. YOU are indoctrinated into this cult. Please do not address me again in any way, you are very disrespectful. If any member on here asks to not be dragged into a certain conversation, I would respect that wish. But not you, no, you needle, and needle, and needle me. You are actually goading me and putting a stumbling block before me. Goading is a violation of the sites rules and I have overlooked yours but not anymore.

God bless you and I hope you will have enough humility to see that our God is an Awesome God who wishes NONE to be lost, but that ALL come to repentance.

 

[amigo de christo]

So you think I will remember whatever post you are speaking of from a couple years ago?? I can't even remember what day it is half the time! And, you are also calling me a liar! It seems your only goal here is to condemn me and throw doubt into me, as ALL Calvinists I know personally, do!
As I am also pretty certain that I asked you politely several times to not suck me into your dark world of roboticism. NOT INTERESTED! This doctrine of men/demons will never wash with me. YOU are indoctrinated into this cult. Please do not address me again in any way, you are very disrespectful. If any member on here asks to not be dragged into a certain conversation, I would respect that wish. But not you, no, you needle, and needle, and needle me. You are actually goading me and putting a stumbling block before me. Goading is a violation of the sites rules and I have overlooked yours but not anymore.

God bless you and I hope you will have enough humility to see that our God is an Awesome God who wishes NONE to be lost, but that ALL come to repentance.

The only advice i can offer up sister is , DONT NEVAH FOLLOW CALVIN .
Just read and learn the bible for yourself .

 

[amigo de christo]

So you think I will remember whatever post you are speaking of from a couple years ago?? I can't even remember what day it is half the time! And, you are also calling me a liar! It seems your only goal here is to condemn me and throw doubt into me, as ALL Calvinists I know personally, do!
As I am also pretty certain that I asked you politely several times to not suck me into your dark world of roboticism. NOT INTERESTED! This doctrine of men/demons will never wash with me. YOU are indoctrinated into this cult. Please do not address me again in any way, you are very disrespectful. If any member on here asks to not be dragged into a certain conversation, I would respect that wish. But not you, no, you needle, and needle, and needle me. You are actually goading me and putting a stumbling block before me. Goading is a violation of the sites rules and I have overlooked yours but not anymore.

God bless you and I hope you will have enough humility to see that our God is an Awesome God who wishes NONE to be lost, but that ALL come to repentance.

Actually HE says that more than once . I DESIRE Not the death of the wicked but rather they would repent .
WHY will ye die .
Jesus himself confirms it . JERUSALEM , JERUSALEM , who stonest the prophets
HOW OFTEN i would have GATHERED YOU as a mother hen her chicks under her wings
only , YOU WERE PREDISTINED TO HELL , OR , OR DID JESUS SAY THIS , ONLY YE WOULD NOT .
And we know what peter wrote . GOD is long suffering desiring none to perish but that all would come to repentance .
ME THINKS PETER KNOWS WAY MORE THAN CALVIN . AND WE GOTS TO KNOW JESUS AND GOD DOES TOO .
I can show these people all over the old test as well as places in the new test these things .
In the end its true that all who rejected JESUS will wail and wail very sore . BUT GOD OFFERED UP HIS SON
ONLY THEY WOULD NOT .
OH my goodness . HERE IS A HUGE REMINDER that just came to me .
JESUS SAID THIS . and it wont sound like calvin either .
THE ONLY CONDENMNATION one has . Did he say cause they were PRE DETERMINED TO BURN IN HELL
OR , OR DID JESUS say THEY WONT COME TO ME , TO THE LIGHT . exactly sister . THE fault lies on man , NOT GOD .

 

[Kermos]

if your trying to convince me you done lost that. how ever if your convincing your self. it looks like you succeeded.

i have read a lot of off the wall comments in forums before.. i give you a BIG thumbs up for a off the off no brainer remark. so lets use this as a example if someone was smoking weed marijunia and they offered it to you. you then smoked it .it would not not be your fault. because you made the chose to smoke it .. is that correct ?btw are you and bill Clinton related. he smoked pot never inhaled had sex with a women but it was not his doings what ddoes james say let no man say he si tempted of God

James 1:13-25

King James Version

​

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Romans 6:16

King James Version

​

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

that shot your theory down we have a choice not to sin have a good day.

Neither James 1:13 nor Romans 6:16 nullify that God LITERALLY pronounced the CAUSE of Adam eating was Adam listened to Eve with "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)

In effect, you preach Paul's writing of "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (Romans 6:16) nullifies the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Firstly, Paul did not write anything about choosing nor free-will in Romans 6:16, so you are in error.

Secondly, Paul did write "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ who controls us Christians, but you are out of accord with Jesus.

Thirdly, the fruit of "obedience resulting in righteousnes" mentioned by Paul in Romans 6:16 is fruit of the Spirit in us Christians caused by the Holy Spirit because the Apostle Peter wrote "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22), and Peter and Paul are in accord with Lord Jesus who says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), but you are out of accord with Jesus.

Now, let's look at your other supposed proof text in James chapter 1 that proves you are in error.

The Tradition Man Created Teaching That Man Is Good - An Open Conspiracy​

Free-willian philosophers base their "man is inherently good" philosophy on Bible passages such as:

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. (James 1:13)
​

In the following, it is imperative to remember that Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God. This means Jesus is good because He says "No one is good except God alone" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18), so Christ alone is the exception to when I write all people and such.

Man starts initially as evil, self-willed for the Apostle gives no exception for a person starting otherwise in life with "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Here are the relevant spiritual points about James 1:13 that are together a cohesive unit proving the deception of the free-willian way:

• free-will is not contained therein, so James 1:13 is not a proof text for free-will.
• self-will is not mentioned therein. James 1:13 does not indicate "God does not given any man self-will".
• the audience for James' letter is people who are in Christ; in other words, people that are saved (James 1:1-2, James 2:1). The audience constrains the meaning of "anyone" in James 1:13 to exclusively the people of the faith, so James is not addressing the faithless in James 1:13.
• it is written "YHWH tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates" (Psalm 11:5), so God does not tempt people, but God does test people.
• it is written "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me" (Psalm 51:5), so all, and I mean every person except Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), all people start off as evil, fleshly, self-willed persons for there is no exception indicated anywhere in Scripture.
• it is written "The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth" (Psalm 58:3), so all, and I mean every person except Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), all people start off as evil, fleshly, self-willed persons for there is no exception indicated anywhere in Scripture.
• it is written "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9), so man is evil and self-willed in his deceitful heart from birth without exception - man is created in the flesh, evil, and self-willed.
• the Apostle Paul wrote
  
  
  you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved (Ephesians 2:1-5)
  ​
  So, everyone in the Assembly of God formerly were self-willed people; therefore, everyone starts out in life with a self-will because all of the unsaved people are self-willed.
• thus says Adonai YHWH (Lord GOD) "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself" (Ezekiel 18:20), so every self-willed person goes to hell for practicing lawlessness because of the person's own doing of sin (crimes against God) - their sin is accounted to them yet no self-willed person can escape being self-willed of their own initiative for the Word of God says "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57).

You are in error because James 1:13 does not state that man can choose God.

You are in error because Romans 6:16 does not state that man can choose God.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

So you think I will remember whatever post you are speaking of from a couple years ago?? I can't even remember what day it is half the time! And, you are also calling me a liar! It seems your only goal here is to condemn me and throw doubt into me, as ALL Calvinists I know personally, do!
As I am also pretty certain that I asked you politely several times to not suck me into your dark world of roboticism. NOT INTERESTED! This doctrine of men/demons will never wash with me. YOU are indoctrinated into this cult. Please do not address me again in any way, you are very disrespectful. If any member on here asks to not be dragged into a certain conversation, I would respect that wish. But not you, no, you needle, and needle, and needle me. You are actually goading me and putting a stumbling block before me. Goading is a violation of the sites rules and I have overlooked yours but not anymore.

God bless you and I hope you will have enough humility to see that our God is an Awesome God who wishes NONE to be lost, but that ALL come to repentance.

Nancy, God had me include a link back to a record of your writing from a couple of years ago, so you could refresh your memory, but instead of reading the link into this self same thread, you returned with more emotion instead of the Word of God.

This is not goading because you keep coming back without addressing the Scripture, so if you want to talk about Scripture, then here is the text that includes a link to your writing of a couple of years ago.

The strange doctrine of "Calvinism" that you repeat is foreign to Christianity including me because the Christ of us Christians declares who we are and who God is! God reigns sovereign in the affairs of mankind (DANIEL 4:34-35), but you wrote that God doesn't reign sovereign in the affairs of mankind.

Now, Nancy, let's visit your writings of specific Scripture which you brought up as support for free-will, but you failed to follow up when you were shown that they do not:

• A couple of years ago in this thread you bailed on correspondence in which you were shown your proof text for God being outside of time so you can choose Jesus actually shows time reference with "the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to have been already done in eternity. (proof link).
• Recently, you show no signal of repentance for your writing of "that is a choice" toward God regarding Philippians 2:12-13 (proof link) even after God has me proclaim to you that we Christians "work out" our "salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) because God works in us (Philippians 2:13).

The Christ of us Christians says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only Way (John 14:6) that a person gets eternal life is by believing Christ, and Christ spoke the words recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, and Mark 13:37; moreover, no Scripture nullifies Christ's words.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Wynona]

The only Way (John 14:6) that a person gets eternal life is by believing Christ, and Christ spoke the words recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, and Mark 13:37; moreover, no Scripture nullifies Christ's words.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Do you believe that believing in free will disqualifies you from eternal life?

 

[Ezra]

Neither James 1:13 nor Romans 6:16 nullify that God LITERALLY pronounced the CAUSE of Adam eating was Adam listened to Eve with "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)

In effect, you preach Paul's writing of "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (Romans 6:16) nullifies the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Firstly, Paul did not write anything about choosing nor free-will in Romans 6:16, so you are in error.

Secondly, Paul did write "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ who controls us Christians, but you are out of accord with Jesus.

Thirdly, the fruit of "obedience resulting in righteousnes" mentioned by Paul in Romans 6:16 is fruit of the Spirit in us Christians caused by the Holy Spirit because the Apostle Peter wrote "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22), and Peter and Paul are in accord with Lord Jesus who says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), but you are out of accord with Jesus.

Now, let's look at your other supposed proof text in James chapter 1 that proves you are in error.

The Tradition Man Created Teaching That Man Is Good - An Open Conspiracy​

Free-willian philosophers base their "man is inherently good" philosophy on Bible passages such as:

​

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. (James 1:13)​

​

In the following, it is imperative to remember that Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God. This means Jesus is good because He says "No one is good except God alone" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18), so Christ alone is the exception to when I write all people and such.

Man starts initially as evil, self-willed for the Apostle gives no exception for a person starting otherwise in life with "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Here are the relevant spiritual points about James 1:13 that are together a cohesive unit proving the deception of the free-willian way:

• free-will is not contained therein, so James 1:13 is not a proof text for free-will.
• self-will is not mentioned therein. James 1:13 does not indicate "God does not given any man self-will".
• the audience for James' letter is people who are in Christ; in other words, people that are saved (James 1:1-2, James 2:1). The audience constrains the meaning of "anyone" in James 1:13 to exclusively the people of the faith, so James is not addressing the faithless in James 1:13.
• it is written "YHWH tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates" (Psalm 11:5), so God does not tempt people, but God does test people.
• it is written "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me" (Psalm 51:5), so all, and I mean every person except Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), all people start off as evil, fleshly, self-willed persons for there is no exception indicated anywhere in Scripture.
• it is written "The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth" (Psalm 58:3), so all, and I mean every person except Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), all people start off as evil, fleshly, self-willed persons for there is no exception indicated anywhere in Scripture.
• it is written "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9), so man is evil and self-willed in his deceitful heart from birth without exception - man is created in the flesh, evil, and self-willed.
• the Apostle Paul wrote
  
  
  you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved (Ephesians 2:1-5)​
  So, everyone in the Assembly of God formerly were self-willed people; therefore, everyone starts out in life with a self-will because all of the unsaved people are self-willed.
• thus says Adonai YHWH (Lord GOD) "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself" (Ezekiel 18:20), so every self-willed person goes to hell for practicing lawlessness because of the person's own doing of sin (crimes against God) - their sin is accounted to them yet no self-willed person can escape being self-willed of their own initiative for the Word of God says "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57).

You are in error because James 1:13 does not state that man can choose God.

You are in error because Romans 6:16 does not state that man can choose God.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

is that all you can post copy and pasted material ? if we are to yield to present our bodies a living sacrifice.. that means we must make some choices. if all you can post is Calvinism material please dont bother everything i posted is backed by scripture .

 

[Ezra]

Do you believe that believing in free will disqualifies you from eternal life?

you may not want the answer or he will have to look it up in his Calvinist hand book what to say.

 

[Kermos]

is that all you can post copy and pasted material ? if we are to yield to present our bodies a living sacrifice.. that means we must make some choices. if all you can post is Calvinism material please dont bother everything i posted is backed by scripture .

In essence, you are conveying that Paul wrote ""Do you not know that when you choose to present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (@Ezra) instead of Paul's true writing that excludes choice thus showing fruit of the one that the person serves with "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (The Apostle Paul, Romans 6:16); therefore, you remain in error.

Paul is clear that Adam's will was not involved with eating of the tree forbidden as food as shown in the following.

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account​

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which means that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Presenting an event driven review of Paul's writing "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22) and the creation account and more recorded in Genesis:

• See "until now" (Romans 8:22) indicates all time prior to the Apostle Paul for he wrote "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22), as in "the whole creation" "until now".
• See the serpent was in the garden tempting Eve (Genesis 3:1-5) before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).
• See "subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) as the serpent's futility of lying to Eve with "You surely will not die" (Genesis 3:4) - before Adam or Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), yet Adam and Eve died (Genesis 5:5, Genesis 7:21 none of mankind, besides the 8 [Genesis 7:7 and 1 Peter 3:20], survived the flood, so Eve had to be dead).
• See "not willingly" (Romans 8:20) applies to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6) for the Word of God specifically attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Ezra]

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account

once again you copied and pasted all you know is what your Calvinist hand book tells you/// ,,no farther discussion on this subject. Since you can not think for your self

 

[Nancy]

Nancy, God had me include a link back to a record of your writing from a couple of years ago, so you could refresh your memory, but instead of reading the link into this self same thread, you returned with more emotion instead of the Word of God.

This is not goading because you keep coming back without addressing the Scripture, so if you want to talk about Scripture, then here is the text that includes a link to your writing of a couple of years ago.

The strange doctrine of "Calvinism" that you repeat is foreign to Christianity including me because the Christ of us Christians declares who we are and who God is! God reigns sovereign in the affairs of mankind (DANIEL 4:34-35), but you wrote that God doesn't reign sovereign in the affairs of mankind.

Now, Nancy, let's visit your writings of specific Scripture which you brought up as support for free-will, but you failed to follow up when you were shown that they do not:

• A couple of years ago in this thread you bailed on correspondence in which you were shown your proof text for God being outside of time so you can choose Jesus actually shows time reference with "the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to have been already done in eternity. (proof link).
• Recently, you show no signal of repentance for your writing of "that is a choice" toward God regarding Philippians 2:12-13 (proof link) even after God has me proclaim to you that we Christians "work out" our "salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) because God works in us (Philippians 2:13).

The Christ of us Christians says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only Way (John 14:6) that a person gets eternal life is by believing Christ, and Christ spoke the words recorded in John 15:16, John 15:19, and Mark 13:37; moreover, no Scripture nullifies Christ's words.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

And again you come back at me about a doctrine I have told you a million times, I NO LONGER want to discuss. If God is a Calvinist, then to hell I go. Happy? My burning for eternity will please God and Calvinists, as it will "reveal His Glory" to burn people for no fault of their own. WHY do you PUSH! Stop writing me please, once again. I will surely give you warning points. Go ahead and "think" you understand what I wrote two years ago. So this is the last time I will ask you to cease your harassment of me, and yes to me it IS harassment.
Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. Your pet doctrine has stolen the assurance of my salvation, killed my joy and ALMOST destroyed my faith. No more posts or replies to me, please and I will do the same for you.

 

[Ezra]

Your pet doctrine has stolen the assurance of my salvation, killed my joy and ALMOST destroyed my faith.

easy that is a lie from the devil on your salvation.. i am like you i have no interest in discussion all he can do is copy and paste

 

[Kermos]

The Word of God is precious! Lord Jesus Christ is immeasurable treasure!! We Christians know that the Christ of us Christians is the Lord God Almighty, YHWH!!! All praise and glory and love be to King Jesus who sits on the throne of the Kingdom of God!!!!

You presented yourself as a slave for obedience in your writing to me (Romans 6:16, you brought up this verse) where you used certain terminology within your posts, Ezra, so let's look at two separate posts in order that we see your terminology.

if all you can post is Calvinism material please dont bother

In your post, you attribute to John Calvin these words of the post to which you were replying, "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (the Word of God, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (the Word of God, John 15:19, includes salvation).

By God's grace for God's glory, we Christians attribute this Word to God to Lord Jesus in the Righteousness of God.

A slave of sin (Romans 6:16) attributes the Word of God to someone other than God.

i have read a lot of off the wall comments in forums before.. i give you a BIG thumbs up for a off the off no brainer remark.

Your "off the wall" means

• bizarre
• queer
• strange
• stupid
• ignorant

You directly applied "off the wall" to "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (the Word of God, Genesis 3:17-19).

I proclaim to you this Word of God is NOT off the wall.

You also wrote this Word of God has no brain.

Let's return to Romans 6:16 which you brought up, "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (The Apostle Paul, Romans 6:16).

Your fruit (actions, works, deeds, thoughts) are very, very telling. Paul conveys that a person's action of presenting himself to another person reveals who the presenter is by the fruit of the presenter.

We in Christ fear disappointing the Word of God, the Christ (Proverbs 9:10), because the Word of Christ is the exclusive Way (John 14:6) to eternal Life (John 14:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Ezra]

let's look at two separate posts in order that we see your terminology

LERTS NOT i been down this road with Calvinism dictionary of words redefined. when the the Bible says yield your self present your self. that means there is something for us to do.. now since i have covered that i am not interested in your Calvinist explanation i am not blinded to your religion. all most all Calvinist i have encountered are all the same.. have to redefine the obvious to prove your right . NO MORE REPLIES PLEASE if it keeps up i will block you.. i dont mind discussions like this along the way.. but you are repeating your self and its like a dirty diaper not very appealing . have a good afternoon i am not a Calvinist robot

 

[Ezra]

Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,

then stop listening to your wife twist scriptures

 

[Kermos]

then stop listening to your wife twist scriptures

You do not know my wife. God blesses her with the indwelling Holy Spirit, so my love that God graciously gave me knows Scripture in Truth (John 14:6).

If you really

dont mind discussions like this along the way.

then you would respond to the next post that God causes me to post to you in humble and honest detail instead of neglecting the Truth (John 14:6) in the post.

Your action/fruit/work of insulting my wife is inconsistent with Christian behavior, see Romans 6:16 in the next post.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

LERTS NOT i been down this road with Calvinism dictionary of words redefined. when the the Bible says yield your self present your self. that means there is something for us to do.. now since i have covered that i am not interested in your Calvinist explanation i am not blinded to your religion. all most all Calvinist i have encountered are all the same.. have to redefine the obvious to prove your right . NO MORE REPLIES PLEASE if it keeps up i will block you.. i dont mind discussions like this along the way.. but you are repeating your self and its like a dirty diaper not very appealing . have a good afternoon i am not a Calvinist robot

Again, you insult Lord Jesus Christ by misattributing Christ's words to some guy named John Calvin.

The Word of God is precious! Lord Jesus Christ is immeasurable treasure!! We Christians know that the Christ of us Christians is the Lord God Almighty, YHWH!!! All praise and glory and love be to King Jesus who sits on the throne of the Kingdom of God!!!!

You presented yourself as a slave for obedience in your writing to me (Romans 6:16, you brought up this verse) where you used certain terminology within your posts, Ezra, so let's look at two separate posts in order that we see your terminology.

if all you can post is Calvinism material please dont bother

In your post, you attribute to John Calvin these words of the post to which you were replying, "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (the Word of God, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (the Word of God, John 15:19, includes salvation).

By God's grace for God's glory, we Christians attribute this Word to God to Lord Jesus in the Righteousness of God.

A slave of sin (Romans 6:16) attributes the Word of God to someone other than God.

i have read a lot of off the wall comments in forums before.. i give you a BIG thumbs up for a off the off no brainer remark.

Your "off the wall" means

• bizarre
• queer
• strange
• stupid
• ignorant

You directly applied "off the wall" to "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (the Word of God, Genesis 3:17-19).

I proclaim to you this Word of God is NOT off the wall.

You also wrote this Word of God has no brain.

Let's return to Romans 6:16 which you brought up, "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (The Apostle Paul, Romans 6:16).

Your fruit (actions, works, deeds, thoughts) are very, very telling. Paul conveys that a person's action of presenting himself to another person reveals who the presenter is by the fruit of the presenter.

We in Christ fear disappointing the Word of God, the Christ (Proverbs 9:10), because the Word of Christ is the exclusive Way (John 14:6) to eternal Life (John 14:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Ezra]

Again, you insult Lord Jesus Christ by misattributing Christ's words to some guy named John Calvin.

pssst john calvin is just a man ..you should join carm they have their own Bibles like you