Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

Exactly it is referring to creation that you call creature.
You assume it(creation) is Adam and nothing else.

Where does Paul say Adam?
Kermos' calvinist bias is why it must be assumed it(creation) is Adam,

Subjected to futility, because of Adam's sin the creation is subjected to futility, God does this
Genesis 3:17-19
- Then to Adam God said, because you have heeded(obeyed Eve) the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you saying, You shall not eat of it,
- cursed is the ground for your sake,
- in toil you shall eat of it, all the days of your life
-both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
- and you shall eat the herb of the field,
- in the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken, for dust you are, and to dust you shall return


Kermos perverts the word of God. Nowhere in Romans 8:20 does Paul say the creation ate of the tree.
This is adding his twist on Romans 8:20. You cannot find creation eating anything in this verse.

Romans 8:20,
- For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of God who subjected it in hope

Where is Adam eating fruit from the tree God forbade him?
Kermos is making stuff up!


Paul absolutely without a doubt uses figurative phrases in Romans 8:20.
This is ridiculous!!!! Paul does not have to state "I'm writing figuratively here folks"
It is understood by the context.


Obviously,
No one would argue against this.

No, you have Added to Gods word by teaching creation is Adam.
Adding Adam was eating from a tree in Romans 8:20.

This is interpreting scripture through the lenses of TULIP colored glasses.


This is figurative. Paul is speaking of creation not a particular man named Adam. That is where you are inserting your biases into the text.

Yes, and words have no meaning taken out of context.
Which is exactly what you have done with the word not,  willingly.

The word pistis is Greek for faith.
It sometimes means gospel.
Other times means belief.
You cannot know the meaning of a word unless you know the context of that word being used.

Ephesians 4:5,
- One Lord, one faith(pistis), one baptism

Here the greek word pistis does not mean person belief.
Paul is using pistis to mean the gospel system by which there is only ONE.
Context matters!
Galatians 1:6-7,
- I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel, which is not another(Paul stated in Ephesians 4:5 there is only ONE gospel(pistis).

In Jude 3 the word faith(pistis) is used for the gospel that was once delivered.
Jude 3,
- Beloved while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith(pistis, gospel) which was once for all delivered to the saints

Paul uses pistis which by greek definition to mean different things based on the CONTEXT.
Words have no meaning when the context is ignored.
Or in Kermos' case, intentionally taken out of context.


Above is Kermos' wrong interpretation that Adam had no will of his own to eat of the tree which was sin.
This is the reason Kermos' interpreting the Bible proves why he is irrational and confused.
Why would any rational person accept his explanation of why Adam sinned?
It makes no sense that God would punish Adam if Adam commited sin not willingly!!!

According to Kermos Romans 8:20 has Adam eating of the tree not willingly,
So the question that Kermos needs to answer is,
Why does God punish Adam when Adam took no part in choosing to eat of the tree?
Adam according to Kermos played no part in his own actions.
Kermos' reasoning is ridiculous and this is why his position cannot be rationally explained.

Any belief that cannot hold up against scrutiny must be abandoned.

Kermos doesn't think. He just repeats the same illogical theology because he is a dyed in the wool hardcore calvinist that cannot be reasoned with.

Folks who cannot be reasoned with are a waste of time.

Matthew 7:6,
- Do not give what is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn and tear you in pieces

You have God as the cause of creation being subject to futility as integral in Romans 8:20 in your quoted writings (which breaks the Greek grammar as shown in item 12, also see item 1 for a proof link), and you have Adam as the cause of the creation being subject to futility according to Genesis 3:17 in your quoted writings (see item 5 for a proof link); on the other hand, the Holy Spirit has Paul declaring that Adam not willingly caused the creation to be subject to futility according to Romans 8:20, and the Word of God declared Adam as the cause of the creation being subject to futility according to Genesis 3:17. You convey a very confused message because you fail to acknowledge the Truth (John 14:6) in Romans 8:20.

Please note, once again, that you have included that the mountains have a "will" and the trees can become "the children of God" because of your use of the word "creation" per your quoted writings about Romans 8:20-22 (see item 9 for a proof link).

When you wrote that none of creation is at fault for subjecting creation to futility, and bearing in mind that Adam is part of creation, then by extension the conclusion of your thoughts is that Adam was not at fault for subjecting the creation to futility, not by Adam's choice, not by listening to his wife, no how; therefore, your conclusion by default leaves God at fault for subjecting the creation to futility, that is, God caused everything resulting in creation being subjected to futility according to your thoughts; on the other hand, I acknowledge that you wrote that Adam caused the creation to be subjected to futility by his choice of eating of the tree forbidden as food, yet this is in direct conflict with your other set of thoughts that God caused the creation to be subject to futility, so the end result is that your thoughts exhibit extreme confusion.

The conclusion of your concept is a collision of conflict and complete confusion.

No place in Scripture states that man's created with a free will to choose toward God; therefore, you are adding free will to choose toward God into the scripture.

You illegally and illegitimately redefine words as is demonstrated in this post, and you fail to justify your changes that break Scripture (and "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35)).

@Nancy, because of your Like for Titus' post, you joined yourself to Titus' confusion.

This is Spiritual Truth (John 14:6), yet what you post, what you call "reasoning holds up in the real world", is confusion according to Spiritual Truth (John 14:6)!

continued to post 1,922

 

[Kermos]

continued from post 1,921

You, @Titus and @Nancy, elicit several more counts of confusion about the creation account:

1. You literally add your thoughts into the Apostle Paul's writing in your paragraph as copied and pasted here:
   
   
   For the creature(creation) was made subject(by God) to vanity(frailty, lack of vigor) not willingly(not through it's own fault)( it being creation) but by reason of Him(God) who hath subjected the same in hope(in hope meaning God did not intend for the frailty of creation that God subjected it to, to remain this way) (the word of Titus not of the Apostle Paul in Romans 8:20, proof link))​
   You demonstrated your confused deception because the Apostle Paul truly wrote:
   
   
   For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope.
   (the word of the Apostle Paul, Romans 8:20)​
2. The Greek word inflections for the noun "creature" and the adjective "willingly" grammatically require that "not willingly" modifies "creature" specifically, not God per your thoughts (see your word "intend" in your version of Romans 8:20 in item 1 above), but truly Adam as per the Apostle Paul. The words "the" and "creature" and "willingly" are the only words in Romans 8:20 that are Nominative and Feminine and Singular which means that "the", "creature", "not", and "willingly" must be associated together; therefore, "the creature" "not willingly" ate of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to vanity yet God supplies the hope in Christ to the creatures because of the Greek grammar used by the Apostle Paul. By the way, the word "Him", for God, is Accusative and Masculine and Singular, so "Him" is not associated with "willingly", per Greek as per the Apostle Paul.
3. You confusedly changed Paul's words from "not willingly" to "not at fault" when you vividly wrote "not willingly means: not of it's own fault" (proof link). In Romans 8:20, the Greek word for "willingly" is ἑκοῦσα (Strong's 1635 - hekón - properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice)), so, as shown in item 9 below with respect to Paul writing "the children of God" in specific reference to the word "creature" (meaning persons) in Romans 8:21, this means Adam's will was not involved with eating of tree forbidden as food thus subjecting creation to futility per Paul in Romans 8:20.
4. Not only that, but when you wrote "not willingly means: not of it's own fault" (proof link), then you confusedly think that Adam was not at fault for subjecting creation to futility, yet the Word of God says different than you for the Word says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you" (Genesis 3:17). Notice that Adam is part of creation, yrt you confusedly exclude Adam from being part of creation throughout your writings.
5. Nowhere in Romans 8:20-22 does Paul state that he was writing figuratively, so you confusedly change Paul's writing with no grounds. Paul was writing Spiritually, so Paul does include Adam in Romans 8:20-22! (proof link)
6. Adam was the only creature with a prohibition command with a contingent punishment for violation (Genesis 2:16-17), not the birds of the air (Genesis 1:20-22), so the birds as part of creation could not subject the creation to futility which shows your confusion that Paul referred to "creation" as a whole instead of Adam as "creature" in Romans 8:20-22 (see where you wrote "Paul is speaking here figuratively not literally. Creature is not Adam but creation itself" in proof link), so only man could do the deed of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil leading to punishment, and Adam not of his will ate of the tree forbidden as food for the Word of God clearly declares that the cause of Adam eating of the tree was Adam listened to Eve (Genesis 3:17).
7. The "will" is the facility within a person to make choices, but you confusedly reverse the definition when you wrote "Unwilling is still a choice" (proof link) in your vain attempt to "prove" that a person's choice drives the person's "will" - your thoughts are backwards about "will" and "choice".
8. You hold contradictory thoughts as being true simultaneously in your mind, your thoughts which oppose each other are:
   • In a prior post of yours, you wrote:
     
     
     People unwilling do things they know is wrong all the time! (proof link)​
   • In another post of yours, you wrote:
     
     
     YOU CANNOT FORCE ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST THEIR WILL. (proof link)​
   Titus, those thoughts of yours are irreconcilable opposites, so that is confusion.
9. When you wrote "Paul is speaking here figuratively not literally. Creature is not Adam but creation itself" (proof link) about Romans 8:20-22, then you confusedly conveyed that you think the mountains of creation share a "will" (see "not willingly" in Romans 8:20) as well as the trees of creation can become the children of God (see "the children of God" in Romans 8:21), yet I proclaim to you that Paul certainly constrains "creation" or "creature" in Romans 8:20-21 to persons.
10. The Greek word inflections for the noun "creature" and the adjective "willingly" grammatically require that "not willingly" modifies "creature" specifically, not God per your thoughts (see your word "intend"), but truly Adam as per the Apostle Paul. The words "the" and "creature" and "willingly" are the only words in Romans 8:20 that are Nominative and Feminine and Singular which means that "the", "creature", "not", and "willingly" must be associated together; therefore, "the creature" "not willingly" ate of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to vanity yet God supplies the hope in Christ to the creatures because of the Greek grammar used by the Apostle Paul. By the way, the word "Him", for God, is Accusative and Masculine and Singular, so "Him" is not associated with "willingly", per Greek as per the Apostle Paul.
11. You clearly confuse "unwilling" versus "unwanted" because "will" and "want"/desire are two different things, so your confusion is endemic to your writings. Your example of that son raping his sister shows he was willing to rape his sister, but he performed his unwanted action of raping his sister because he thought it would save his mother from being shot by the assailant (proof link).
12. According to Greek grammar, the verb phrase "was subjected" and the prepositional phrase "to futility" in Romans 8:20 must be associated with "creature" in Romans 8:20, yet you confusedly think that those phrases are associated with God in Romans 8:20 (proof link).
13. You confuse "unwilling" and "not willing". You confusedly mix "unwilling" in your illegal semantic and self-contradictory sense of a person doing something against the person's will (see your example of the South African woman (proof link)) contrasted with "not willingly" in the definitive sense of a person doing something not based upon the person's will (see God's Word in Genesis 3:17 and the Apostle Paul's writing in Romans 8:20-23). In Romans 8:20-22, "not willingly" means not of the will, and choice is of the will; therefore, Adam not of his will ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil according to the Word of God (Genesis 3:17), so Adam did not choose to eat of the tree forbidden as food (Romans 8:20-22)!.

You wrote (proof link):

​

You are proving you dont understand what you are teaching.​

He did not rape his sister willingly!!!!​

Kermos you are a very confused man!​

​

Definition of unwilling: loath, reluctant, obstinate​

Synonyms: coerced, forced, involuntary, unintentional​

​

You are the one confused by word definition not me Kermos!​

​

Look at the synonyms for "unwilling" and see "forced", yet you wrote "YOU CANNOT FORCE ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST THEIR WILL" (proof link); therefore, you have a self contradiction with respect to your example of that son who raped his sister because that son either (1) was forced to rape his sister or (2) willingly raped his sister. But as your thoughts stand right not, you hold contradictory thoughts as being true in your mind which is confusion.

"God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Titus]

You are a strawman Kermos,

You have God as the cause of creation being subject to futility as integral in Romans 8:20

Never said God is the cause of creation being subjected to the change that occurred to creation(nature)
I have only said Adam's willfull sin is the cause for nature being subjected to futility.
God changed creation because of Adam's sin.
If Adam had not chose to sin God would not have changed creation. So God Himself is not the cause for the change in creation.

Please note, once again, that you have included that the mountains have a "will" and the trees can become "the children of God" because of your use of the word "creation" per your quoted writings about Romans 8:20-22 (see item 9 for a proof link)

Kermos is lying here. He knows I have said repeatedly that my position is the phrase written by Paul "not willingly" in Romans 8:20 is figurative language. I never ever held the belief that this statement by Paul is literally nature having a will of its own.
This is why Kermos is a joke, he must misrepresent his opponents in a vain attempt to appear he has proved them wrong.

When you wrote that none of creation is at fault for subjecting creation to futility

Above is Kermos once again lying about what I have said.
Nowhere did I say that none of creation was at fault.
In Romans 8:20 the word creation is only referring to nature not Adam.
I have already stated Adam is at fault. And yes Adam is part of Gods creation.

Kermos when you can quote me saying what you accused me of saying above, then you will hear again from me. Until then you are a sad loser that is lying to win an argument.
Where did I say none of creation is at fault? More strawman tactics.

Here is what I have actually said,

Subjected to futility, because of Adam's sin the creation is subjected to futility, God does this
Genesis 3:17-19

This is post # 1919

Kermos I'll be waiting for you to quote me where I said what you wrongfully accused me of saying,

When you wrote that none of creation is at fault for subjecting creation to futility

 

[Kermos]

You are a strawman Kermos,

Never said God is the cause of creation being subjected to the change that occurred to creation(nature)
I have only said Adam's willfull sin is the cause for nature being subjected to futility.
God changed creation because of Adam's sin.
If Adam had not chose to sin God would not have changed creation. So God Himself is not the cause for the change in creation.


Kermos is lying here. He knows I have said repeatedly that my position is the phrase written by Paul "not willingly" in Romans 8:20 is figurative language. I never ever held the belief that this statement by Paul is literally nature having a will of its own.
This is why Kermos is a joke, he must misrepresent his opponents in a vain attempt to appear he has proved them wrong.


Above is Kermos once again lying about what I have said.
Nowhere did I say that none of creation was at fault.
In Romans 8:20 the word creation is only referring to nature not Adam.
I have already stated Adam is at fault. And yes Adam is part of Gods creation.

Kermos when you can quote me saying what you accused me of saying above, then you will hear again from me. Until then you are a sad loser that is lying to win an argument.
Where did I say none of creation is at fault? More strawman tactics.

Here is what I have actually said,

This is post # 1919

Kermos I'll be waiting for you to quote me where I said what you wrongfully accused me of saying,

In Romans 8:20, we find the Apostle Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but through the Ome who subjected it in hope".

Romans 8:20 has two clauses (it's a compound sentence made up of two sentences):

• "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly,"
• "but through the Ome who subjected it in hope"

In the first clause, Paul reveals that Adam not willingly subjected the creation to futility (or "in futility").

In the second clause, Paul reveals that One subjected the creation in hope (or more accurately in Greek "on hope").

There are two different "subjected" activities going on in Romans 8:20 by two different beings.

Your express addition to Romans 8:20 as shown in item 1 clearly shows that you think God caused the creation to be subjected to futility - just look at how you wrote "creature(creation) was made subject(by God) to vanity" in item 1.

Item 12 shows your personal and illegal grammar for your words of "by God" - your words which are unsupported in the original Greek language text.

The 13 items in the continuation of this post show that your thoughts about the word "creation" (or "creature") in Romans 8:20-22 leads to Hindu like belief, such as the mountains of creation share a "will" (see "not willingly" in Romans 8:20) as well as the trees of creation can become the children of God (see "the children of God" in Romans 8:21) - "not willingly" must be applied exclusively to persons, not the mountains which are a part of creation so "not willingly" can't be applied to creation as a whole either, but truly "not willingly" must be applied to Adam because Adam is a person.

No place in Scripture states that man's created with a free will to choose toward God; therefore, you are adding free will to choose toward God into the scripture.

You illegally and illegitimately redefine words as is demonstrated in this post, and you fail to justify your changes that break Scripture (and "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35)).

This is Spiritual Truth (John 14:6), yet what you post, what you call "reasoning holds up in the real world", is confusion according to Spiritual Truth (John 14:6)!

continued to post 1,922

 

[Kermos]

Are you just making this stuff up?

So, now you embed an accusation in the form of a question instead of addressing how you make up "free-will" in these passages which you brought up:

• Romans 7:19-25 as recorded in this proof post,
• Joshua 24:15 as recorded in this proof post, and
• Matthew 26:39 as recorded in this proof post.

Overall, the passages you brought up declare God's sovereign control as is clearly evident in the proof post links above.

This is the destination of where your thoughts lead for the passages which you brought up - the free-willian traditions of men (Matthew 15:9). You fail to reason about your very own free-willian thoughts, so it is no surprise that you fail to understand John 3:3-8, and John 3:3-8 is just one of the Word of God citations to which you responded "Are you just making this stuff up".

And, @Titus, your issued Like of RLT63's post signals your agreement, yet you make up a your personal and illegal grammar thus making up your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) version of the Apostle Paul's writing as clearly shown in this proof post. regarding Romans 8:20-21.

No scripture states that man was imparted a free-will, so you fabricate that man has a free-will according to your thoughts, not scripture.

If you had believed Jesus, then you would have unquestioningly believed His Word and His Word is:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

TRUE FREEDOM FROM CRIME AGAINST GOD IS IN CHRIST ALONE, NOT IN THE WORK OF A PERSON'S "I CHOSE JESUS" THAT IS TRULY AGAINST CHRIST, BUT A PERSON COMES TO CHRIST BY THE POWER OF GOD ALONE FOR THE CHRIST OF US CHRISTIANS SAYS "HE WHO PRACTICES THE TRUTH COMES TO THE LIGHT, SO THAT HIS DEEDS MAY BE MANIFESTED AS HAVING BEEN WROUGHT IN GOD" (JOHN 3:21) AND "APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING" (JOHN 15:5)! ALL POWER AND GLORY AND HONOR TO LORD AND GOD JESUS CHRIST FOREVER AND EVER, AMEN!

As the original post shows richly in scripture, there is no such thing as free-will, but natural man possessing a self-will exists leading to damnation (2 Peter 2:9-10).

 

[Kermos]

You have your talking points as all Calvinists do. And the most often used comeback to an Arminian who does not believe in your doctrine is: "You just don't understand Calvinism". Been over this and over and over it again and again. Never once has a Calvinist come close to changing my position and visa versa....And, SOOO tired of the back and forth. You do you and God will take care of the rest.
God bless and keep you.

The Christ of us Christians says - the Word of God talking points are:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

These are Christian talking points! King Jesus is wonderful and awesome to unilaterally save us from eternal punishment, and all we Christians can do is acknowledge His work! Praise be to the Living God!

Have you heard of the account of the Word, Lydia, and the opening of her heart, but more on that in a moment.

Now, Nancy, let's visit your talking points of which you brought up, but you failed to follow up.

• A couple of years ago in this thread you bailed on correspondence in which you were shown your proof text for God being outside of time so you can choose Jesus actually shows time reference with "the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to have been already done in eternity. (proof link).
• Recently, you show no signal of repentance for your writing of "that is a choice" toward God regarding Philippians 2:12-13 (proof link) even after God has me proclaim to you that we Christians "work out" our "salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) because God works in us (Philippians 2:13).

Back to the Word and Lydia, "the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul" (Acts 16:14) - see, the Word spoken by Paul, the same Word that God has me proclaim to you, this eternal Word opened Lydia's heart.

Nancy, you cannot change your mind toward God for salvation, only the Word of God can change your mind toward God (Romans 1:16). Truly, Lord Jesus, the Word, is the only One capable of opening your heart for the righteousness of salvation.

I can pray for God to change your mind because I know that God is in control, but you cannot pray for God to change other people because you do not believe God is in control.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

I was getting worried-reading your post to @Kermos till you wrote this-

Even Jesus said-"Lo! I come to DO the Father's WILL"

The believers will/boule/thelema is swallowed up in the sweet will of God and Christ Jesus and cannot operate independently, apart from Christ-but we can still make wrong choices.

Blessings
Johann.

Johann, for your prior post, you went silent after you were shown your error regarding the following (proof link):

• God causes the good works of us Christians (Galatians 5:22-23, Philippians 2:13), the good deeds are not us because "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)
• you say you will be judged, but the Christ of us Christians says "he who believes in Him is not judged" (John 3:18) - and make no mistake, that believes in John 3:18 is the work of God in us Christians because Christ says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). All glory is Christ's alone for the salvation of man! Praise the Lord!!!
• you claim ownership of good mind thought/works and good body deeds, yet the Christ of us Christians says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21); therefore, your purported good works are not of Christ because of your ownership claim. All glory is Christ's for the purification of man! Praise the Lord!!!
• Paul wrote "no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me" (Romans 7:17), but you claim ownership of your continued sinning. The Christ of us Christians says "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you" (John 15:3).
• Adam was clay in the Potter’s Hand, just as everyone is clay in the Potter’s Hand (Romans 9:20-23), but you like to use the word "robots" instead of clay.
• the Christ of us Christians is revealed in Scripture, not Calvin as per your thoughts, but truly the Word of God.
• regarding your closing paragraph of the referenced post, God caused me to illumine the hypocrisy of your statement "nobody is in need of being corrected-but a certain judgmental attitude" by explaining that you composed a large post to debunk the Apostle Peter's explanation about self-will, yet you entirely neglected even mentioning 2 Peter 2:9 in your diatribe, but 2 Peter 2:9 is part of the sentence in 2 Peter 2:10:
  
  
  the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10).
  ​
  So your explanation subtracted a critical portion of Scripture - your heart changes the concept which the Apostle conveys, yet after the error of your writing was clearly demonstrated to you, you did not reply with a signal of repentance nor an expression of gratitude for the exclusive work of the Savior.

Let's stick to where we last left off as shown in the above list. @Nancy, you Like Johann's post, but notice that Christ controls the will of us Christians (Philippians 2:13), but if you control your will yourself, then you have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

No scripture states that man was imparted a free-will, so you fabricate that man has a free-will according to your thoughts, not scripture.

If you had believed Jesus, then you would have unquestioningly believed His Word and His Word is:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation by God's grace God's glory!
• "I appointed you that you would go and bear fruit" (John 15:16), so God causes people to think good thoughts and to do good works - the Lord Christ carries us Christians through sanctification by God's grace for God's glory!
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

As the original post shows richly in scripture, there is no such thing as free-will, but natural man possessing a self-will exists leading to damnation (2 Peter 2:9-10).

 

[Johann]

Johann, for your prior post, you went silent after you were shown your error regarding the following (proof link):

I'm never silent and you are in error-not me @Kermos
Get rid of Calvin's teachings.
J.

 

[Nancy]

Johann, for your prior post, you went silent after you were shown your error regarding the following (proof link):

• God causes the good works of us Christians (Galatians 5:22-23, Philippians 2:13), the good deeds are not us because "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)
• you say you will be judged, but the Christ of us Christians says "he who believes in Him is not judged" (John 3:18) - and make no mistake, that believes in John 3:18 is the work of God in us Christians because Christ says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). All glory is Christ's alone for the salvation of man! Praise the Lord!!!
• you claim ownership of good mind thought/works and good body deeds, yet the Christ of us Christians says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21); therefore, your purported good works are not of Christ because of your ownership claim. All glory is Christ's for the purification of man! Praise the Lord!!!
• Paul wrote "no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me" (Romans 7:17), but you claim ownership of your continued sinning. The Christ of us Christians says "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you" (John 15:3).
• Adam was clay in the Potter’s Hand, just as everyone is clay in the Potter’s Hand (Romans 9:20-23), but you like to use the word "robots" instead of clay.
• the Christ of us Christians is revealed in Scripture, not Calvin as per your thoughts, but truly the Word of God.
• regarding your closing paragraph of the referenced post, God caused me to illumine the hypocrisy of your statement "nobody is in need of being corrected-but a certain judgmental attitude" by explaining that you composed a large post to debunk the Apostle Peter's explanation about self-will, yet you entirely neglected even mentioning 2 Peter 2:9 in your diatribe, but 2 Peter 2:9 is part of the sentence in 2 Peter 2:10:
  
  
  the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10).​
  So your explanation subtracted a critical portion of Scripture - your heart changes the concept which the Apostle conveys, yet after the error of your writing was clearly demonstrated to you, you did not reply with a signal of repentance nor an expression of gratitude for the exclusive work of the Savior.

Let's stick to where we last left off as shown in the above list. @Nancy, you Like Johann's post, but notice that Christ controls the will of us Christians (Philippians 2:13), but if you control your will yourself, then you have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

No scripture states that man was imparted a free-will, so you fabricate that man has a free-will according to your thoughts, not scripture.

If you had believed Jesus, then you would have unquestioningly believed His Word and His Word is:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation by God's grace God's glory!
• "I appointed you that you would go and bear fruit" (John 15:16), so God causes people to think good thoughts and to do good works - the Lord Christ carries us Christians through sanctification by God's grace for God's glory!
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

As the original post shows richly in scripture, there is no such thing as free-will, but natural man possessing a self-will exists leading to damnation (2 Peter 2:9-10).

If I were to accept the God of Calvinism, my joy and peace would fly out the window. No hope that my nieces and nephews will turn to Christ, no hope for my own self either cause...HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU ARE CHOSEN? How does one know they are or are not in the Book of Life?
I also would have a hard time no, impossible time of it, trying to do His will and evangelize. What would one say? Come to The Lord Jesus for the salvation of your soul!..."maybe..."? And, if one is NOT of the "elect" yet, wants' to be saved and does believe in Christ and free will, many at one time or another can let doubts seep in, I am no exception. If I thought God did not love me, nothing left but devastation!
There is a member on here, in-frequently, who is a Calvinist and believes he is not chosen by God. So, he identifies as "Christian" still, and say's to me in private that, he still pleads to God that he will be chosen. I cannot imagine living that kind of life. Where is the JOY, where is the GOOD NEWS? Good news to some horrible news to those who think they cannot ever be saved. Just terrible. I have to wonder can I love a God like that? I don't need yet another Calvinist to heap on the doubt, thanks but no thanks. I would off myself if my mind goes in that direction. Satan has tortured me over this "doctrine" since the 1990's and again about 10 or so years ago. Not going to allow it to do me in so, true or not...I CANNOT believe God's plan is to allow most to suffer in hell for no fault of their own. I thought He was JUST in all His ways...and I still believe that.

 

[Kermos]

I'm never silent and you are in error-not me @Kermos
Get rid of Calvin's teachings.
J.

You most certainly were silent - not giving a response to the following. In fact, you just mentioned that stranger named Calvin instead of the Christ of us Christians, the Christ whom I proclaim His very words.

NOTICE, YOU ARE STILL SILENT ABOUT THE SAYINGS OF LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Johann, for your prior post, you went silent after you were shown your error regarding the following (proof link):

• God causes the good works of us Christians (Galatians 5:22-23, Philippians 2:13), the good deeds are not us because "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)
• you say you will be judged, but the Christ of us Christians says "he who believes in Him is not judged" (John 3:18) - and make no mistake, that believes in John 3:18 is the work of God in us Christians because Christ says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). All glory is Christ's alone for the salvation of man! Praise the Lord!!!
• you claim ownership of good mind thought/works and good body deeds, yet the Christ of us Christians says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21); therefore, your purported good works are not of Christ because of your ownership claim. All glory is Christ's for the purification of man! Praise the Lord!!!
• Paul wrote "no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me" (Romans 7:17), but you claim ownership of your continued sinning. The Christ of us Christians says "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you" (John 15:3).
• Adam was clay in the Potter’s Hand, just as everyone is clay in the Potter’s Hand (Romans 9:20-23), but you like to use the word "robots" instead of clay.
• the Christ of us Christians is revealed in Scripture, not Calvin as per your thoughts, but truly the Word of God.
• regarding your closing paragraph of the referenced post, God caused me to illumine the hypocrisy of your statement "nobody is in need of being corrected-but a certain judgmental attitude" by explaining that you composed a large post to debunk the Apostle Peter's explanation about self-will, yet you entirely neglected even mentioning 2 Peter 2:9 in your diatribe, but 2 Peter 2:9 is part of the sentence in 2 Peter 2:10:
  
  
  the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10).
  ​
  So your explanation subtracted a critical portion of Scripture - your heart changes the concept which the Apostle conveys, yet after the error of your writing was clearly demonstrated to you, you did not reply with a signal of repentance nor an expression of gratitude for the exclusive work of the Savior.

Let's stick to where we last left off as shown in the above list. @Nancy, you Like Johann's post, but notice that Christ controls the will of us Christians (Philippians 2:13), but if you control your will yourself, then you have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

No scripture states that man was imparted a free-will, so you fabricate that man has a free-will according to your thoughts, not scripture.

If you had believed Jesus, then you would have unquestioningly believed His Word and His Word is:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation by God's grace God's glory!
• "I appointed you that you would go and bear fruit" (John 15:16), so God causes people to think good thoughts and to do good works - the Lord Christ carries us Christians through sanctification by God's grace for God's glory!
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

As the original post shows richly in scripture, there is no such thing as free-will, but natural man possessing a self-will exists leading to damnation (2 Peter 2:9-10).

 

[Kermos]

If I were to accept the God of Calvinism, my joy and peace would fly out the window. No hope that my nieces and nephews will turn to Christ, no hope for my own self either cause...HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU ARE CHOSEN? How does one know they are or are not in the Book of Life?
I also would have a hard time no, impossible time of it, trying to do His will and evangelize. What would one say? Come to The Lord Jesus for the salvation of your soul!..."maybe..."? And, if one is NOT of the "elect" yet, wants' to be saved and does believe in Christ and free will, many at one time or another can let doubts seep in, I am no exception. If I thought God did not love me, nothing left but devastation!
There is a member on here, in-frequently, who is a Calvinist and believes he is not chosen by God. So, he identifies as "Christian" still, and say's to me in private that, he still pleads to God that he will be chosen. I cannot imagine living that kind of life. Where is the JOY, where is the GOOD NEWS? Good news to some horrible news to those who think they cannot ever be saved. Just terrible. I have to wonder can I love a God like that? I don't need yet another Calvinist to heap on the doubt, thanks but no thanks. I would off myself if my mind goes in that direction. Satan has tortured me over this "doctrine" since the 1990's and again about 10 or so years ago. Not going to allow it to do me in so, true or not...I CANNOT believe God's plan is to allow most to suffer in hell for no fault of their own. I thought He was JUST in all His ways...and I still believe that.

You speak of some strange god that you call "God of Calvinism".

YHWH God of Christ of us Christians speaks clearly in the Word of God.

You make up out of thin air your purported ability to choose Jesus, yet Jesus says you cannot choose Jesus. You also just skipped right past the links to your irreconcilable errors but your errors are listed for you again in this post - let's resolve your established errors before going elsewhere with this conversation.

See Christ's words, Nancy. His word is near, and the Word of God makes we Christian's joy full!

The Christ of us Christians says - the Word of God talking points are:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people, not man choosing God, but truly God choosing man.
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the glorious blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

These are Christian talking points! King Jesus is wonderful and awesome to unilaterally save us from eternal punishment, and all we Christians can do is acknowledge His work! Praise be to the Living God!

Have you heard of the account of the Word, Lydia, and the opening of her heart, but more on that in a moment.

Now, Nancy, let's visit your talking points of which you brought up, but you failed to follow up.

• A couple of years ago in this thread you bailed on correspondence in which you were shown your proof text for God being outside of time so you can choose Jesus actually shows time reference with "the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to have been already done in eternity. (proof link).
• Recently, you show no signal of repentance for your writing of "that is a choice" toward God regarding Philippians 2:12-13 (proof link) even after God has me proclaim to you that we Christians "work out" our "salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) because God works in us (Philippians 2:13).

Back to the Word and Lydia, "the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul" (Acts 16:14) - see, the Word spoken by Paul, the same Word that God has me proclaim to you, this eternal Word opened Lydia's heart.

Nancy, you cannot change your mind toward God for salvation, only the Word of God can change your mind toward God (Romans 1:16). Truly, Lord Jesus, the Word, is the only One capable of opening your heart for the righteousness of salvation.

I can pray for God to change your mind because I know that God is in control, but you cannot pray for God to change other people because you do not believe God is in control.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

"The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either."

This has been repeated by OP numerous times as debate against " free will". I'm not getting the connection to the verse stated below.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Lord Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6), so His Words are absolute Truth, and the Savior says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) and "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37, Jesus to 4 Apostles); therefore, the Truth eliminated any allusion to man having a free-will.

The original post is illuminated by the Truth in that God imparted not a free-will to Adam nor any man thereafter.

 

[Kermos]

what do you call it when given specific instructions. with out means to keep from breaking specifics God told Him the one tree you dont eat off of.. what did the serpent say? hath God said Adam made the decision to Eat.. did God say no you dont Adam . no he gave the instructions expecting adam to keep them

No place in Scripture states that Adam chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so the only way for you to think that Adam chose to eat of the tree forbidden as food is for you to add to Scripture.

The Serpent was conversing with Eve, not Adam (Genesis 3:1-5). The Serpent is a deceiver (John 8:44), so the concept of Adam choosing to eat of the tree that God said he shall not eat is deception.

Moreover, Adam eating of the tree demonstrates the innately unavoidable depravity of unconverted man because Adam moved away from God; in other words, Adam violated God's only command to Adam, and the Word of God declared Adam would violate God's command (Genesis 2:16-17). See, Adam eating of the tree was not Adam moving toward God, in reality, Adam was moving away from God, so Adam is NO proof of Adam choosing God.

@Nancy and @Titus you both join in with Ezra's error since you both issued a thumbs up of Ezra's post, yet:

• Nancy, you mix your emotional thoughts into Scripture resulting in something that is not the Word of God as shown in this post.
• Titus, you fabricate your own language grammar rules which are illegal English language rules as well as illegal Greek language rules thus your conjured up version of Scripture is not the Word of God as shown in this post.

Both of your tongues are stopped by the Word of God while you just disappear into silence when your error is plainly explained to you.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[RR144]

Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

Of course Adam had free will, if he hadn't he wouldn't have sinned.

 

[Nancy]

No place in Scripture states that Adam chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so the only way for you to think that Adam chose to eat of the tree forbidden as food is for you to add to Scripture.

The Serpent was conversing with Eve, not Adam (Genesis 3:1-5). The Serpent is a deceiver (John 8:44), so the concept of Adam choosing to eat of the tree that God said he shall not eat is deception.

Moreover, Adam eating of the tree demonstrates the innately unavoidable depravity of unconverted man because Adam moved away from God; in other words, Adam violated God's only command to Adam, and the Word of God declared Adam would violate God's command (Genesis 2:16-17). See, Adam eating of the tree was not Adam moving toward God, in reality, Adam was moving away from God, so Adam is NO proof of Adam choosing God.

@Nancy and @Titus you both join in with Ezra's error since you both issued a thumbs up of Ezra's post, yet:

• Nancy, you mix your emotional thoughts into Scripture resulting in something that is not the Word of God as shown in this post.
• Titus, you fabricate your own language grammar rules which are illegal English language rules as well as illegal Greek language rules thus your conjured up version of Scripture is not the Word of God as shown in this post.

Both of your tongues are stopped by the Word of God while you just disappear into silence when your error is plainly explained to you.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Oh my how presumptuous of you! I walk away from these calvinistic posts because I am sick and tired of the CONSTANT back and forth "I'm right, your wrong" "You just don't understand Calvinism" (that's always the last word of CALVINISTS)

I will not get sucked into yet another endless arguments. I've had a good 5 years of it. Go ahead and "correct" us all you want. I will no longer participate...and presume away cause I am

 

[Ezra]

No place in Scripture states that Adam chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so the only way for you to think that Adam chose to eat of the tree forbidden as food is for you to add to Scripture.

The Serpent was conversing with Eve, not Adam (Genesis 3:1-5). The Serpent is a deceiver (John 8:44), so the concept of Adam choosing to eat of the tree that God said he shall not eat is deception.

so your saying the devil made him do it? did he twist his arm hold a gun to his head? or did he just use cunning words and adam fell for it hook line and sinker like eve
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.



did eve force him to eat it?

 

[Kermos]

so your saying the devil made him do it?

Your question demonstrated that you don't know Scripture, but we shall see in Scripture very soon whom is responsible for Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

did he twist his arm hold a gun to his head?

Your concept of the existence of guns is very off, so you really need to do a lot of studying instead of posting!

or did he just use cunning words and adam fell for it hook line and sinker like eve
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

None of Genesis 3:4-6 states that Adam heard the Serpent, but the passage is clear that Eve heard the Serpent, yet Scripture is clear that Adam listened to someone besides God about eating of the tree forbidden as food, but more on that in a sec.

did eve force him to eat it?

God Declares The Cause And Effect For Adam Eating Of The Forbidden Tree​

After Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), to Adam, God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19)
The word "because" inherently indicates cause in (Genesis 3:17), and the word "because" is the first word that God said to Adam in Genesis 3:17-19.

God declares the cause as being that Adam listened to the voice of his wife.

God declares the effect as being that the ground would be cursed because of Adam as well as to dust Adam would return.

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17 (This sidebar examines Paul's writing in Romans 8:20-22 as related to the creating account in Genesis chapters 1 to 3).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Ezra]

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE;

if your trying to convince me you done lost that. how ever if your convincing your self. it looks like you succeeded.

i have read a lot of off the wall comments in forums before.. i give you a BIG thumbs up for a off the off no brainer remark. so lets use this as a example if someone was smoking weed marijunia and they offered it to you. you then smoked it .it would not not be your fault. because you made the chose to smoke it .. is that correct ?btw are you and bill Clinton related. he smoked pot never inhaled had sex with a women but it was not his doings what ddoes james say let no man say he si tempted of God

James 1:13-25

King James Version

​

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Romans 6:16

King James Version

​

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

that shot your theory down we have a choice not to sin have a good day.

 

[Kermos]

Oh my how presumptuous of you! I walk away from these calvinistic posts because I am sick and tired of the CONSTANT back and forth "I'm right, your wrong" "You just don't understand Calvinism" (that's always the last word of CALVINISTS)

I will not get sucked into yet another endless arguments. I've had a good 5 years of it. Go ahead and "correct" us all you want. I will no longer participate...and presume away cause I am

You neglected to address your misapplication of Scripture, again, which is typical of free-willians.

You are wrong, but God is right.

You say "I chose Jesus", yet Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The strange doctrine of "Calvinism" that you repeat is foreign to Christianity because the Christ of us Christians declares who we are and who God is! God reigns sovereign in the affairs of mankind (DANIEL 4:34-35), but you emotion that God doesn't reign sovereign in the affairs of mankind.

Now, Nancy, let's visit your emotions of which you brought up, but you failed to follow up.

• A couple of years ago in this thread you bailed on correspondence in which you were shown your proof text for God being outside of time so you can choose Jesus actually shows time reference with "the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to have been already done in eternity. (proof link).
• Recently, you show no signal of repentance for your writing of "that is a choice" toward God regarding Philippians 2:12-13 (proof link) even after God has me proclaim to you that we Christians "work out" our "salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) because God works in us (Philippians 2:13).

Nancy, those emotional changes of yours to Scripture fail to earn you eternal life. You must believe in Jesus in order to have eternal life - you must believe the Word of God who says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6) and the Light (John 1:3) so we Christian's every good work is wrought in God by God's grace for God's glory!

You claim ownership of your works.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Ezra]

You neglected to address your misapplication of Scripture, again, which is typical of free-willians.

i noticed you ignored my scriptures and post