The Orthodox Preterist versus the Heretical Dispensationalist

[covenantee]

The pharisees understood the word and were gods people. It did not make them saved.

Where do you get those ideas?

Acts 13
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

How can anyone be "gods people" but not be saved?

Or are you meaning some other god?

 

[covenantee]

He is a christian?

I would not know.

I proclaim Christ at every opportunity, but you don't know if I'm a Christian?

What would that make you?

There is no ignorance like dispensational ignorance.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Weren't scribes and Pharisees part of the nation?

If not, what were they part of?

Were their scribes and pharisees when abraham was given the land?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I proclaim Christ at every opportunity, but you don't know if I'm a Christian?

What would that make you?

There is no ignorance like dispensational ignorance.

Whats your gospel?

Only then can i determine if I think you are a true believer or not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where do you get those ideas?

Acts 13
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

How can anyone be "gods people" but not be saved?

Or are you meaning some other god?

Why did God call them his people? Why did Paul call them his people. Why did paul say they are hated for the gospel but beloeved because of the election. And why did paul say the gifts of God are irrevocable.

Did Paul mess up or are you?

 

[PinSeeker]

No.

Very well, but in a covenant, both sides have requirements placed upon them. Abraham's was understood ~ obedience ~ as is the case in all the lesser covenants, from Adam's, through Moses's, and on through David's.

Grace and peace to you.

He said I GIVE YOU and your descendents after you….

Right, in order, 1.) the covenant of life, with Adam and then renewed with Noah, 2.) the covenant of land with Abraham, 3.) the covenant of the law with Moses, and 4.) the covenant of a king, with David and Israel as a whole. The requirement for Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David (and all of their progeny and/or all of Israel) ~ every time ~ was perfect obedience. And of course they all failed, which made (and still makes, because we all fall short of God's glory) the coming of a Savior, Who enveloped all these things in a perfect, full way. And come He did, ultimately paying the wages of sin ~ death, even death on a cross ~ on their and our behalf, thereby redeeming us all and securing us to God and His great salvation. To the praise of His glorious grace, as Paul says.

And I'll ask again: Do you not believe in our eternal security in Christ? That we cannot "lose our salvation," because we are kept in God's power, through the work in us of His Spirit ~ this is sanctification ~ not ours?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[covenantee]

Were their scribes and pharisees when abraham was given the land?

Were there unfaithful disobedient Israelites whom God slew by the thousands?

 

[covenantee]

Why did God call them his people?

Why did God slay thousands of them?

 

[covenantee]

Whats your gospel?

Only then can i determine if I think you are a true believer or not

Thankfully not the same as yours.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He is a christian?

I would not know.

Why wouldn't you know that? Do you think being a Christian or not is dependent on one's end-times views?

The pharisees understood the word and were gods people. It did not make them saved.

You think the ones Jesus called "hypocrites" and "vipers" (see Matthew 23) and such were God's people? LOL. No, they were not. You say it didn't make them saved. Do you somehow not understand that God's people are those who are saved?

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Does this look like a description of the Pharisees to you?

What has covenantee said that would lead you to believe he is not saved? Did he deny Christ at some point? I'm pretty sure he didn't.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why did God call them his people?

Where does God call unbelieving hypocrites like the Pharisees and scribes "His people"?

Why did Paul call them his people.

Paul indicated that the remnant of believers in Israel that God foreknew were God's people, not the rest like the Pharisees and scribes who were blinded and cut off.

Why did paul say they are hated for the gospel but beloeved because of the election. And why did paul say the gifts of God are irrevocable.

Did Paul mess up or are you?

Neither. You are misinterpreting the scripture as you have already been shown. Paul differentiated between the remnant of saved believers in Israel and "the rest" who "were blinded". You, unlike Paul, are not differentiating between the two. Surely, the remnant of believers were not "hated for the gospel"! That is ludicrous! They were not hated, they were beloved because of being God's people. No, it was "the rest" who "were blinded" that were enemies for the sakes of the Gentiles.

As Paul indicated about the ones who were blinded in particular, they were blinded and they had stumbled, but not beyond recovery. As Paul indicated in Romans 11:11, they were blinded and had stumbled in order to bring salvation to the Gentiles who in turn were to make those blind Israelites jealous so that they too would want to be saved like the Gentiles and the remnant of Israelite believers were. And Paul indicated that he hoped to lead some of those who were blinded to salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Very well, but in a covenant, both sides have requirements placed upon them. Abraham's was understood ~ obedience ~ as is the case in all the lesser covenants, from Adam's, through Moses's, and on through David's.

Grace and peace to you.

Right, in order, 1.) the covenant of life, with Adam and then renewed with Noah, 2.) the covenant of land with Abraham, 3.) the covenant of the law with Moses, and 4.) the covenant of a king, with David and Israel as a whole. The requirement for Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David (and all of their progeny and/or all of Israel) ~ every time ~ was perfect obedience. And of course they all failed, which made (and still makes, because we all fall short of God's glory) the coming of a Savior, Who enveloped all these things in a perfect, full way. And come He did, ultimately paying the wages of sin ~ death, even death on a cross ~ on their and our behalf, thereby redeeming us all and securing us to God and His great salvation. To the praise of His glorious grace, as Paul says.

And I'll ask again: Do you not believe in our eternal security in Christ? That we cannot "lose our salvation," because we are kept in God's power, through the work in us of His Spirit ~ this is sanctification ~ not ours?

Grace and peace to you.

I think we have gone on enough

I can;t agree with you about the abrahamic covenant

If it is a two sided covenant, It would not be an eternal covenant,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Were there unfaithful disobedient Israelites whom God slew by the thousands?

Yep.

But in God chosing them as a nation he never promised them salvation.

so your point is mute

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why did God slay thousands of them?

Why did God call them his people?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thankfully not the same as yours.

And what is my gospel?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why wouldn't you know that? Do you think being a Christian or not is dependent on one's end-times views?

Nope. It depends on one‘s gospel.

I do not know his gospel.

You think the ones Jesus called "hypocrites" and "vipers" (see Matthew 23) and such were God's people? LOL. No, they were not. You say it didn't make them saved. Do you somehow not understand that God's people are those who are saved?

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Does this look like a description of the Pharisees to you?

What has covenantee said that would lead you to believe he is not saved? Did he deny Christ at some point? I'm pretty sure he didn't.

Concerning the gospel they are your enemy, concerning the election they are beloved, the GIFTS and calling of God are irrevocable

Your argument is with God not me.

they suffered their fate, and will be lost forever if they did not repent as Saul/Paul and a few others did..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where does God call unbelieving hypocrites like the Pharisees and scribes "His people"?


Paul indicated that the remnant of believers in Israel that God foreknew were God's people, not the rest like the Pharisees and scribes who were blinded and cut off.


Neither. You are misinterpreting the scripture as you have already been shown. Paul differentiated between the remnant of saved believers in Israel and "the rest" who "were blinded". You, unlike Paul, are not differentiating between the two. Surely, the remnant of believers were not "hated for the gospel"! That is ludicrous! They were not hated, they were beloved because of being God's people. No, it was "the rest" who "were blinded" that were enemies for the sakes of the Gentiles.

As Paul indicated about the ones who were blinded in particular, they were blinded and they had stumbled, but not beyond recovery. As Paul indicated in Romans 11:11, they were blinded and had stumbled in order to bring salvation to the Gentiles who in turn were to make those blind Israelites jealous so that they too would want to be saved like the Gentiles and the remnant of Israelite believers were. And Paul indicated that he hoped to lead some of those who were blinded to salvation.

The blinded and the remnant were Israel

they are enemies concerning the gospel as a nation. They are beloved according to the election, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable

Your argument is with Paul and God

 

[covenantee]

And what is my gospel?

Yours is OT Jews and Israel.

Mine is NT Christ and Calvary.

Yours is transcended by mine.

The OT promises of God are now the NT promises in Christ. 2 Corinthians 1:20

 

[covenantee]

The blinded and the remnant were Israel

they are enemies concerning the gospel as a nation. They are beloved according to the election, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable

Your argument is with Paul and God

You've been shown repeatedly from Scripture that enemies of the gospel are not the beloved election; and that the gifts and calling of God are exclusively and irrevocably for His Church.

But, as with the better promises of the better New Will and Testament in the Blood of the Lamb, you simply refuse to believe.

The Pharisees would have applauded.

How often do you attend synagogue?

 

[covenantee]

they are enemies concerning the gospel as a nation.

A nation is comprised of its individuals.

They are enemies concerning the gospel as individuals.