I'm worried
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1948 was a wakeup call for Christians who had long ignored the fact that the Nation of Israel still plays a significant role in God's plans .... especially in end times.
Christians mistakenly pretended they were "Israel" because the actual nation did not exist for 1900 years.
Re read all unfulfilled Israeli prophecies and you will find it an eyeopener.
The sun has shone pretty bright on the Christian Church since destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD ..... but keep your eyes on Israel from now on. That is where the action will be.
Much of revelation prophecy has to do with Israel and her enemies and her disobedience , the church appears to be absent.
What do you think of the view point that Israel is Zionist/illuminati one world order types (hexagram flag occult star of Sollomon etc) as opposed to Gods true Jewish people? I'm not saying I buy it but people say the Rothschilds funded Israel to get it off the ground. That being said the prophesies have all but come to fruition, the only one not to have happened is the construction of the third temple. Frankly it's totally mind blowing being alive in this day and age.
There are many so called Jew, or better described Israelite who live in Israel today; not all of these are children of Jacob and are not included in the in the House of Israel according to Yahweh. Even Yeshua told those pharisees they were not His sheep but belonged to Satan. These people live in the world and respond according to the secular views of the world and we can not allow them to influence us when we think of those who Yeshua calls the House of Ephraim and Judah...In other words as the bible tells us not all Israel is Israel.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Remember Zec 13:8 tells us that only 1/3 of those living in the land at the end will be saved.
Zec 13:8-9 ESV In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. (9) And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are my people'; and they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Remember Zec 13:8 tells us that only 1/3 of those living in the land at the end will be saved.
Zec 13:8-9 ESV In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. (9) And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are my people'; and they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"
Endless conspiracy theories exist .... but do not bet your future on them being accurate.
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shalom, Bob.
Whereas that may be true, how will you know who is who? It's just like any "witnessing": We must assume that they are the "reachable," and let them prove us wrong. Even the worst "Hell's Angels biker type" who might be considered a "sinner among sinners" can be a POTENTIAL CHILD OF GOD! It's no different among those who call themselves Isra'elis. There are those who will be His people and those who are "sons of Belial." However, we can't KNOW for certain who is who! We must learn to love them all through their resentment and bitterness, and love them to the Master.
I've had discussions with Calvinists before about this. (The northwest, like Washington state, is full of Calvinists.) Even if they are correct in that God only allowed His Son to die for those who would become believers, we must still evangelize ALL, because regardless who are the "predestined" and who are not, GOD IS NOT TELLING, and we can't read minds! We must treat EVERYONE we contact as a POTENTIAL CHILD OF GOD, even if they are not among that ultimate group! This also works for the more Charismatic Arminians who say that one can "lose their salvation." They, too, cannot know who is who, because they can't read one's mind any better than a Calvinist can! Ultimately, there will be those who are found to be ultimate believers and those who are found out to be liars, false believers, those who have - in the final analysis - lost whatever they once thought was their "salvation." In this challenging debate, I would consider myself more of a "three-point Calvinist" in that I believe in the Total depravity of mankind, the Unconditional election of God, and the Perseverance of the saints, or rather the Perseverance of GOD for His saints, of the TULIP acronym, but I am NOT willing to admit the Limited atonement of the Messiah Yeshua` nor the Irresistible grace of God!
However, in the case of the Jews, or more appropriately the Isra'elites, I believe that there are FOUR groups of people: Those who currently accept Yeshua` as the Messiah of God, the Son of God; those who innocently are currently being taught against Yeshua` being the Messiah who simply don't know Him, yet; those who violently resist Yeshua` being the Messiah but who will be awakened to the truth, much as Paul was in the first century; and those "sons of Belial" who will always choose to be Yeshua`s enemies out of hatred for Him and His Father. See, for the Jews and Isra'elis, who are Yeshua`s family, we are taught in the Scriptures that there are TWO ways they will come to accept God's role for His Messiah: They may come to Yeshua` on faith, as the Goyim do now, OR they may come to accept Yeshua` on sight, as He reveals Himself to them at His Parousia. We also find in Zechariah 12 that "accepting Yeshua` on sight" is AFTER the Resurrection of our bodies, and that many Isra'elis will be brought back to life BEFORE they see Him as the One who was pierced!
Whereas that may be true, how will you know who is who? It's just like any "witnessing": We must assume that they are the "reachable," and let them prove us wrong. Even the worst "Hell's Angels biker type" who might be considered a "sinner among sinners" can be a POTENTIAL CHILD OF GOD! It's no different among those who call themselves Isra'elis. There are those who will be His people and those who are "sons of Belial." However, we can't KNOW for certain who is who! We must learn to love them all through their resentment and bitterness, and love them to the Master.
I've had discussions with Calvinists before about this. (The northwest, like Washington state, is full of Calvinists.) Even if they are correct in that God only allowed His Son to die for those who would become believers, we must still evangelize ALL, because regardless who are the "predestined" and who are not, GOD IS NOT TELLING, and we can't read minds! We must treat EVERYONE we contact as a POTENTIAL CHILD OF GOD, even if they are not among that ultimate group! This also works for the more Charismatic Arminians who say that one can "lose their salvation." They, too, cannot know who is who, because they can't read one's mind any better than a Calvinist can! Ultimately, there will be those who are found to be ultimate believers and those who are found out to be liars, false believers, those who have - in the final analysis - lost whatever they once thought was their "salvation." In this challenging debate, I would consider myself more of a "three-point Calvinist" in that I believe in the Total depravity of mankind, the Unconditional election of God, and the Perseverance of the saints, or rather the Perseverance of GOD for His saints, of the TULIP acronym, but I am NOT willing to admit the Limited atonement of the Messiah Yeshua` nor the Irresistible grace of God!
However, in the case of the Jews, or more appropriately the Isra'elites, I believe that there are FOUR groups of people: Those who currently accept Yeshua` as the Messiah of God, the Son of God; those who innocently are currently being taught against Yeshua` being the Messiah who simply don't know Him, yet; those who violently resist Yeshua` being the Messiah but who will be awakened to the truth, much as Paul was in the first century; and those "sons of Belial" who will always choose to be Yeshua`s enemies out of hatred for Him and His Father. See, for the Jews and Isra'elis, who are Yeshua`s family, we are taught in the Scriptures that there are TWO ways they will come to accept God's role for His Messiah: They may come to Yeshua` on faith, as the Goyim do now, OR they may come to accept Yeshua` on sight, as He reveals Himself to them at His Parousia. We also find in Zechariah 12 that "accepting Yeshua` on sight" is AFTER the Resurrection of our bodies, and that many Isra'elis will be brought back to life BEFORE they see Him as the One who was pierced!
Maureen
The antichrist does not persecute all the christians in the world.Read Daniel 11
Daniel 11 is about the same events in revelation.It is also about the time of the end.The man often referd to as antichrist sends his army into Israel .Not the entire world.It is the saints in Israel that are pesecuted and killed for following christ..
You nee to compare more scripture before coming to a conclusion on this.
The beast is in Jerusalem .The false prophet shall soon be there as well.
I don't think it's that far of scripture, the "Jews" according to scripture will rebuild the temple institute animal sacrifice and will welcome Satan as the messiah with open arms. Sound exacty like what they are up to now. I'm into conspiracy fact not theory. The bible uncovered this conspiracy fact 4000 plus years ago!
They already have thier king .
The false prophet only make them love thier king that much more because he speaks so highly of him.
They will recieve the false prophet with open arms because he is for them and thier king.
Do you know who they serve today?
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shalom, Watchwithme.
Sounds like neo-Nazi propaganda! Have you heard how aligned the Mufti (the Arab leader in Jerusalem in the 1940s) was with Hitler's regime? The "third Reich" was ALWAYS trying to undermine the Zionist attempt to create a modern state of Isra'el. There were all sorts of spy activities trying to weaken the attempt of the Jewish people to gain a foothold in the country since it's early inception. And, the limitations of the British occupation on the fledgling nation were stifling! They weren't even allowed to carry firearms to defend themselves, but said nothing to the Arabs about THEIR tactics.
When the Balfour Declaration was first written, the goal was to make both sides of the Jordan River a sanctuary for the displaced Jews from Europe. Then, it was amended to allow the Jews to have the western side of the river while the Arabs had the eastern side of the river. Thus, "trans-Jordan," now simply known as the country of "Jordan," was born. Then, more and more territory from the western side was given away to the Arabs as conciliatory gestures. However, no matter how much land was given away, the Arabs wanted more. They wanted then - and still do today - to "drive Isra'el into the sea!"
Why do the Arabs want the Land so badly? When the Jews first arrived in the Land, it was a barren wasteland, having been salted by the Romans many years prior. The Jews had such a love for the Land, however, that they carefully and methodically washed the land, a bucket at a time, and slowly it began to recover. Soon, they were planting citrus trees and grapes and olive trees and flowers and making the Land come alive again! It was only then that the Arabs who were on the more arid and desert-like eastern side of the Jordan River wanted the west side instead! Sometime when you have the chance, you might want to read the Zion Chronicles series by Bodie Thoene. They're fictional books that tell the true-life history of the birth of the modern nation of Isra'el.
Oh, and by the way, that symbol on the Isra'eli flag is called the SHIELD of David, "magen Daviyd," not a "star." There are twelve outside angles, six acute angles and six obtuse angles, that represent the original twelve tribes of the nation Isra'el.
Shalom, shilohsfoal.
No, Dani'el 11 is about the time before Christ, from the time of the last four kings of Persia, Alexander the Great, and the four empires led by his four generals upon his death. It ends with prophecies about Caesar Augustus and Herod the Great. Thus, these are FULFILLED prophecies and have NOTHING to do with future events!
Sounds like neo-Nazi propaganda! Have you heard how aligned the Mufti (the Arab leader in Jerusalem in the 1940s) was with Hitler's regime? The "third Reich" was ALWAYS trying to undermine the Zionist attempt to create a modern state of Isra'el. There were all sorts of spy activities trying to weaken the attempt of the Jewish people to gain a foothold in the country since it's early inception. And, the limitations of the British occupation on the fledgling nation were stifling! They weren't even allowed to carry firearms to defend themselves, but said nothing to the Arabs about THEIR tactics.
When the Balfour Declaration was first written, the goal was to make both sides of the Jordan River a sanctuary for the displaced Jews from Europe. Then, it was amended to allow the Jews to have the western side of the river while the Arabs had the eastern side of the river. Thus, "trans-Jordan," now simply known as the country of "Jordan," was born. Then, more and more territory from the western side was given away to the Arabs as conciliatory gestures. However, no matter how much land was given away, the Arabs wanted more. They wanted then - and still do today - to "drive Isra'el into the sea!"
Why do the Arabs want the Land so badly? When the Jews first arrived in the Land, it was a barren wasteland, having been salted by the Romans many years prior. The Jews had such a love for the Land, however, that they carefully and methodically washed the land, a bucket at a time, and slowly it began to recover. Soon, they were planting citrus trees and grapes and olive trees and flowers and making the Land come alive again! It was only then that the Arabs who were on the more arid and desert-like eastern side of the Jordan River wanted the west side instead! Sometime when you have the chance, you might want to read the Zion Chronicles series by Bodie Thoene. They're fictional books that tell the true-life history of the birth of the modern nation of Isra'el.
Oh, and by the way, that symbol on the Isra'eli flag is called the SHIELD of David, "magen Daviyd," not a "star." There are twelve outside angles, six acute angles and six obtuse angles, that represent the original twelve tribes of the nation Isra'el.
Shalom, shilohsfoal.
No, Dani'el 11 is about the time before Christ, from the time of the last four kings of Persia, Alexander the Great, and the four empires led by his four generals upon his death. It ends with prophecies about Caesar Augustus and Herod the Great. Thus, these are FULFILLED prophecies and have NOTHING to do with future events!
Thanks for that response. Very interesting. The hexagram is one of the most powerful symbols in witchcraft. I don't thinks that a coincidence. Nor do I believe Zionist are actually the true Jewish people. That said, I haven't quite made up my mind on the subject yet and am not trying to argue with anyone. The other thing I have no understanding about is the Jewish people and their religion. IE what is the difference between say a Jewish person, the Jewish nation and the Jewish Religion. Any good books you can recommend on that subject retro? Some people even believe the true Jewish people (i dont know who or what this means) have still not been allowed entry back to the homeland?
So you believe the resurection took place before the time of Christ.
Since you believe this then who was it that raised the dead?
Don't get me wrong Roy; I'm not judging anyone and I agree we must witness to all; Yeshua will sort it out from His end.
I was only responding to the fact that so many think all Israel is all evil because of the actions of a few; they are just like the rest of humanity, some will come and many will not. Yeshua came for His sheep and not all of Israel fit that category. All of the none believing House of Judah will turn to Yeshua in the last days but scripture tells us that two thirds of the so called Jews (who are not) will not make that decision.
Hope that makes senses...
In Yeshus Messiah,
Bob
Hi Watchwithme; do you understand what the term "Jew" means? This is not a loaded question, I'm just curious what you understand as you ask your questions.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
This is what took place in 1948.
Revelation 17;8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
They were astonished when" Israel" became a nation because it once was and was not and yet is.
And those whos names have not been written followed the beast into the promised land.
They should have waited on the Lord to gather them but they did not wait on the Lord.They thought they should obtain the promised land with the sword.
I understand now shilohsfoal, you must obtain your theology from the Koran; otherwise please read the Old Testament regarding Yahweh's promises to Israel because there is no way that a person with good understanding of Yahweh's word can make the statements that you make.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
You believe everything the beast tells you ?
The beast claims to be God's chosen people and you say yes.
The beast tells you the promised land belongs to himand you say yes.
The beast says he is of God and you say yes.
You dont know what the beast is.
You dont know who Israel is.
You shilohsfoal are a false prophet...sorry to have to say that but you are subverting the word of Yahweh; either through intention or misunderstanding. In either case you misleading those who read here and I will continue to oppose you.
Actually when you make the comment "You believe everything the beast tells you"; you are referring to Yahweh as the beast. I don't know if you understand that but you are taking the words of Yahweh and claiming them to be untrue because it was Yahweh Elohim who give us the promises on Israel..
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Actually when you make the comment "You believe everything the beast tells you"; you are referring to Yahweh as the beast. I don't know if you understand that but you are taking the words of Yahweh and claiming them to be untrue because it was Yahweh Elohim who give us the promises on Israel..
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
dont worry, no one will be misled by ths forum evrty thread in every topic is full of false doctrin. Its a laugh. See you later.
When the beast calls himself by the name of Israel .You believe him.
He chose to call himself Israel in 1948.
He could have chosen to call himself by another name but that was the name he chose.
And you believe him and you agree with the beast that he is Israel.
You have no idea who Israel is.
Nor do you know what the beast is.
Jon-Marc
New Member
Why worry about those of us who believe that the church of Jesus Christ will be removed from earth just prior to the tribulation? Even if we're wrong, we wouldn't go through more than half of the tribulation since God's wrath is for unbelievers and not for believers. Also, what we believe about the calling away of the saved has no bearing upon our salvation. We're not saved by what we believe about a "rapture".
As stated in 1 Thess. 4, all believers will be caught up into the air to meet Christ; He will NOT set foot on the earth at that time. When He returns AFTER the tribulation to set up His 1,000 year reign, all UNbelievers will be removed from the earth and cast into hell. Satan will be bound and cst into the bottomless pit for that 1,000 years. After that 1,000 years, Satan will be released from his prison, when he and those with him will be defeated in a final battle. Then as stated in Revelation 20, death, hell, satan, the beast, the false prophet, and all those names are not written in book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20, 10-15.
As stated in 1 Thess. 4, all believers will be caught up into the air to meet Christ; He will NOT set foot on the earth at that time. When He returns AFTER the tribulation to set up His 1,000 year reign, all UNbelievers will be removed from the earth and cast into hell. Satan will be bound and cst into the bottomless pit for that 1,000 years. After that 1,000 years, Satan will be released from his prison, when he and those with him will be defeated in a final battle. Then as stated in Revelation 20, death, hell, satan, the beast, the false prophet, and all those names are not written in book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20, 10-15.
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