face2face
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That's well and good but how many people "sell" a once saved always saved message which is garbage! God doesnt work that way.
John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus
- Thread starter Eternally Grateful
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
My advice is dont heed the OSAS camp . SIMPLY let us learn well that bible .
Every word , from warning to promise IS FOR OUR GOOD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
JESUS warned HIS OWN ye MUST CONTINUE IN ME . SO i am gonna do the same to and for the church .
Paul himself warns , more than once too .
For we are made partakers of CHRIST , IF , IF
yeah , he knew it had to be to the end . peter knew it too .
As did john . JOHN wrote if that which ye have recieved shall remain IN YOU
THEN YOU will CONTINUE in the SON . I dont heed the OSAS camp
cause they try and twist stuff . YES i do know that if one does COME OUT they were never truly of us .
And i also know that all the apostels knew and taught and reminded the church TO CONTINUE IN CHRIST TO THE END
and they warned against false gospels and other jesus .
PS , since we are on this note we better all take heed .
TAKE HEED . For there is another all inclusive love which is trying to replace the one true gospel of YE MUST BELIEVE .
SO i want to remind the church .
SEEING YOU KNOW these things , YOU TOO had better take heed that ye be not decieved by the error of the wicked
and FALL from your own steadfastness .
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Being Born of the / by Holy Spirit, is an act of God and is instantaneous...happens in an instance....of course there is the before......before this can all happen...the drawing from God to Jesus, repentance, Godly sorrow that only God can bring you to, as well as believing in Jesus, Without believing in Jesus there would be no spiritual birth.......Being Born Again is like the wind.
My words........Being made into the image of Jesus is the sanctification process, where the Holy Spirit starts his work in us, as we have been birthed in the Spirit, therefore are truly Born Again as we have received that new heart of flesh/ Spirit within.
A Born Again imo/ belief knows from “ Day One”: that they have been birthed in the Spirit, God testifies with our spirit that we are his children/ Born Again...in other words, he speaks to our spirit.
God’s word is mighty ,mighty powerful, as his word says.
John 3:8
King James Version
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.My words........Being made into the image of Jesus is the sanctification process, where the Holy Spirit starts his work in us, as we have been birthed in the Spirit, therefore are truly Born Again as we have received that new heart of flesh/ Spirit within.
| Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. New Living Translation And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. English Standard Version And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Berean Standard Bible I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. King James Bible A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. |
A Born Again imo/ belief knows from “ Day One”: that they have been birthed in the Spirit, God testifies with our spirit that we are his children/ Born Again...in other words, he speaks to our spirit.
(Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. |
God’s word is mighty ,mighty powerful, as his word says.
Hebrews 4:12
New International Version
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Online source.
The ark was designed to be a symbol of the presence of God in the midst of His people is the common teaching of the Old Testament. This place on the lid was also referred to as the “Mercy Seat”. Once a year a priest would enter the holy tent and sprinkle blood from a sacrificed animal to atone for the sins of Israel. This old covenant on the Day of Atonement is no longer needed as Jesus Christ became a new covenant in which His sacrifice on the cross was a complete atonement for sins
......My words.....It was the word of God to tell Noah to build the ark....it was made by human hands.....
The Ark that God builds can never be torn to pieces...because it’s by the hand of God thats it’s being built...
Whereas built by man it will be torn to pieces.
Only the word of God will ever stand.
If it’s not his word....then it will never ever last.
God’s word stands for all of eternity....his church that he builds, will also stand for all of eternity.
But and a big BUT....he is the one who chooses who belong to the church, those are the “ Born Again who are in Christ, the head of the church...
My testimony and belief.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
My words.....A True Born Again can NEVER lose their salvation.....you cannot be un- birthed....once you have truly become Born Again/ Birthed in the Spirit.
Can a Christian lose salvation?
ANSWER
First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17, NKJV). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises that if you believe, you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).
Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.
Jude 1:24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
I am confused. what does this have to do with going back into your mothers womb?
I did, have you read my posts? I prety much went over the whole conversation about being born again. maybe you have not read my posts either?
Jesus was carnal?
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
again, have you read John 3? it does not appear you have.
this is a thread about Jesus conversation with Nicodemus.. Can you discuss it?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I believe Jesus was using the term "you" in the general sense, meaning "anyone and everyone." This doesn't rule out the fact that Nicodemus was already born again.
I was referring to the meaning Jesus ascribed to the signs. Granted, the miracles were often acts of grace and kindness and healing. But Jesus rarely performed a miracle simply for the sake of grace and kindness. (Once in a while he did act simply out of kindness. But it was rare.) According to Jesus, the exegesis of the miracles proved that God agreed with his teaching. For instance, Jesus turned water into wine, which John indicates as a "sign," which was not like healing a person out of kindness and neither did it relieve suffering. The purpose of the signs was to foster belief.
John 2:23
Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing.
Yes. I agree. That's my point. John says that many believed in His name, observing the signs which he was doing. Nicodemus testified that he was one of those who believed, observing the signs Jesus did.
Yes, God often sent His Spirit to chosen people for a specific purpose. That was the reason Christ breathed His Spirit upon them before He departed. But the Spirit Christ gave them then was not enough, because He instructs them to remain in Jerusalem until they should be endued with power from on high. Power which they received with the outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
Luke 24:49 (KJV) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Acts 1:4-5 (KJV) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 2:1-4 (KJV) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
God also breathed the breath of life (His Spirit) into Adam, supernaturally giving Adam both physical and spiritual life. But God's Spirit breathed into Adam was not permanent. Because Adam disobeyed God and the spiritual life Adam & Eve possessed departed from them, leaving them natural humans with natural life, but without the spiritual life that enabled them to have a relationship with God. Now in their natural state without eternal life from the Spirit they became "dead in trespasses and sins", along with all of humankind. They remained physically alive to grow old, and weak and one day die, but they lost the eternal spiritual life they must to have a relationship with God and to live forever. It was supernatural spiritual life that died in them on the day they disobeyed God and listened to the voice of the serpent, because the Spirit from God departed, leaving them and their entire progeny spiritually dead, while still physically alive.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
This is true. The non-believer resists and rejects God. Then God slowly lifts the veil of blindness so they can see. They have been filled with pre-conceived notions about God, lies snd doubts; but as God draws them closer with an inner calling and outward calling by the Gospel, their eyes are opened. Still resistance remains, hesitation. Once you start getting closer to Christ, Satan really goes to work on you, whispering those doubts and lies to thwart God's plan. But as you read and hear the word and begin to pray and call out to the Father, to Jesus, the devil flees.
God eventually persuades us to come.
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." Matt. 11:28-30
I have heard Pastors testimonies of their altar call described as being dragged to the altar by the Holy Spirt and Satan holding them back as if it was a tug of war. At the altar, hands were laid on them, they prayed for deliverance, forgiveness and surrendered their resistance completely. They found PEACE. Satan lost, he fled.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
What a lovely spirit. It is nice to see humility and grace.
... not to say I don't see that in others!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Brother....God taught me a good lesson a few days back...my tongue ran away from me and I know it grieved the Holy Spirit....each time I argue......afterwards...I feel dreadful and it gets worse every time i argue.
I can’t go through that anymore..I pray God keeps me in the Spirit..and not this darn flesh...what does it profit us....Absolutely NOTHING.
Praise God for bringing me to that place of knowledge!
VictoryinJesus
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To me the ark made with hands …is the OT law that could make none perfect. To be honest I don’t see God in it. For the bowels of mercy were shut up seeing brothers in need and having the worlds goods. The NT asks “then how does the Love of God dwell in you?” …I ask that of the ark made with hands. Same as that OT law which could not make any perfect. Weak through the flesh. It shuts up. Closes in. Then Christ comes and says “you have heard it has been said to love your brothers. I say love not only your brothers but love your enemies also. Do good to those who hate and despise and reject you.” If the ark made with hands was (is)supposed to be a symbol of the presence of God in the midst of His people. Where’s the mercy of God? It is the same (I think) as the circumcision made with hands, and the temple made with hands. It fails; weak through the flesh. Where is the Spirit? Which is strong? Christ is the true Ark, the True Circumcision, the True Temple Foundation being built up for God presence to dwell among His people. How do we know Christ is “the presence of God in the midst of His people”? Christ does not shut up His bowels of mercy having the true goods and seeing not only brothers but enemies in need, He does not shut up His Mercy.”
Water baptism …can see this as the ark made with hands drowns men in perdition, then Christ comes to save men out from perdition.
I get no one may agree. And I’m not asking you to agree Rita. But the picture of the two sitting in the rock wondering how they missed the ark…the ark made with hands missed it too lacking in something …the Love of Christ. When my grandson asks me about the ark of Noah …I tell him God wasn’t in it. Same as the temple made with hands. Same as circumcision made with hands. They were without and imperfect, not able to make any perfect. It is Christ who makes perfect, the love of God dwelling in Him. When scarcely some may die for a good man…Christ demonstrated the love of God in that he died for us while we were sinners. That is not what is in that picture of some riding off in the ark of Noah waving bon-voyage to those left behind. Only my personal opinion but I think we are going to be surprised at how far God’s perfecting love can reach. How perfect He is that He does not only love those who love Him, but His perfection is that He also loves those who hate, despised, and reject Him.
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did you know God was in the temple made with hands in the begining? (his presence?)
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth but also convicts us when we sin. I remember a Pastor answering the question, "Why do we still feel guilty at times after being born again?" Because we are ... we still sin occasionly and this grieves the Spirit. So we continously ask for forgiveness, knowing that Christ already died for that sin and all others. We learn righteousness, it doesn't happen instantly as some may think. Our spirit has been purified, but as for our flesh - we need to die to it. It's like a slow death until we physically die.
I still am a work in progress. I still am selfish at times. Most people think of themselves first. Being patient and generous are my issues. I know the scripture, " Give and it shall be given to you ... the measure you give will be given back ..." I believe it, know it works, yet I get selfish and make up excuses not to.
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
... But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Rom. 7:15-20, 23-25
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Well, I loved reading your personal opinion...thank you.
