John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Ritajanice]

We do not have a pure heart though until the Spirit baptises us. Charismatics claim the baptism but deny it is about purity though.

Purity?...that word jumped out at me.

Only the pure in heart shall see God.

That verse is from memory..not sure if it’s correct.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

marks, yes we do progress and live better lives. This is common for JW's and Mormons too. Being amongst moral people. But it is up and down. Up at a conference and a dip when we get home. After Sunday etc.

We do not have a pure heart though until the Spirit baptises us. Charismatics claim the baptism but deny it is about purity though.

so when the spirit baptized us and we become a babe in christ.. how can we be perfect?

 

[Hepzibah]

then he would be under law not under grace.

a person can only fall if they are under the law. Under grace. everything he received he did nto earn, so he can not unearn it.

They put themselves under the law when they, having come to Christ, sin deliberately.

 

[Hepzibah]

so when the spirit baptized us and we become a babe in christ.. how can we be perfect?

Well EG you must know that I do not accept the baptism at conversion. I did for a long time but it became clear that it was not working like it should. Honest ones recognize it and come to Christ again for help.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You did not say why Jesus did not just say to him 'follow me'. He went into some deep spiritual stuff that an unsaved man could make nothing of.

So an unsaved can not make anything out of if you believe in me you will never perish and you will live forever?

Please help me understand.. I am confused

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well EG you must know that I do not accept the baptism at conversion. I did for a long time but it became clear that it was not working like it should. Honest ones recognize it and come to Christ again for help.

then how are we placed into Christ?

if it was not working as it should could it have been something else?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They put themselves under the law when they, having come to Christ, sin deliberately.

so God brings them in, and they can overpower God and take them out?

The law exposes their sin. only those under law are back into condemnation and must have an animal sacrifices to bring them back

 

[Ritajanice]

They put themselves under the law when they, having come to Christ, sin deliberately.

Brother, imo/ belief a Born Again doesnt sin deliberately, out of ignorance, most definitely.

1 John 3:9 KJV​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Hepzibah]

So an unsaved can not make anything out of if you believe in me you will never perish and you will live forever?

Please help me understand.. I am confused

The whole speech - even say born again. I agree that Nico was being sarcastic.

 

[Hepzibah]

then how are we placed into Christ?

if it was not working as it should could it have been something else?

We are joined to Him by becoming a place where the Holy Spirit can dwell.

 

[Hepzibah]

Brother, imo/ belief a Born Again doesnt sin deliberately, out of ignorance, most definitely.

1 John 3:9 KJV​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In thought?

 

[marks]

where it is dangerous is when we think we do not have issues.. and do not recognize our pride and ego

I have to ask whether or not we think we are walking in the Spirit when we are not. I've learned to "accept no substitutes". Walking in the Spirit means enjoying the Spirit's fruit,

Galatians 5:22-24 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Either this is all true of me or it's not, and if it's not, I'm not walking in the Spirit. I don't think the Spirit's fruit "grows" in our lives, I think the Spirit's fruit is either seen or not seen. If I'm walking in the Spirit I have His Love, His patience, His faithfulness, His self-control, all of these.

But to consistently walk in the Spirit?

If we are not walking in the Spirit in this moment, what do we do so that we will be in the next moment?

I believe that walking in the Spirit is what we do except when we are not. That may sound like a tautology, but what I mean is that as a child of God, our default state is to live in His holiness. And I believe we would fully and completely do so except that we have a terrestrial existence in a body that was corrupted by sin, and as such produced a mind corrupted by sin. And the reason we don't consistently live righteous and holy is that this corrupt flesh intrudes and pulls us off course, back into it's ways, until such a time as we come to our senses and return to Spirit life.

I see this taught in passages such as Galatians 5, Ephesians 4, Colossians 3, Romans 7.

I think the biggest killer of Spirit life in the Christian is a sense of condemnation. When we believe we are again condemned by God for our sins, how do we then open our broken and vulnerable hearts to the one we believe condemns us? But when we understand the fulness of our reconcilation to Him, His unending love for us, His commitment to us, to me, then I am open and trusting to receive from Him the power of His Spirit to walk in His Way.

I've come to realize that much of the time I'd have previously said I was "walking in the Spirit" was really more that I was having a better day. Being able to resist sins, doing things like praying and reading the Bible and going to church, helping around the house, whatever it is that says to each of us, This is good Godly living, that doesn't necessarily mean we are walking in the Spirit.

For myself, when I am walking in the Spirit, I don't really think about myself, only the most practical things. Otherwise, thoughts about myself are near 0. It's an interesting thing to me to think about what it looks like in my self when I am walking in the Spirit, but then again, this is very personal to each of us, and I don't want to become restrictive in some personal description, only to give voice to the idea that walking in the Spirit is something completely transcendant over our terrestrial sort of life.

So I just offer this up as a way to suggest we consider what is and is not "walking in the Spirit", and what it should include or not include, and whether we are, or perhaps not.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

We are joined to God...by the rebirth/ birthed in the Spirit.

 

[Hepzibah]

so God brings them in, and they can overpower God and take them out?

The law exposes their sin. only those under law are back into condemnation and must have an animal sacrifices to bring them back

There is no more sacrifice once one has betrayed Christ who saved them from sin. Hebrews.

 

[Hepzibah]

I think the Spirit's fruit is either seen or not seen

Amen!

 

[Ritajanice]

In thought?

In thought?

We’re under God’s Grace...therefore he sees no sin in us..we have been forgiven our=sins and given a clear conscience...

 

[Hepzibah]

Walking in the Spirit to me, is being in constant prayer and hearing God clearly.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are joined to Him by becoming a place where the Holy Spirit can dwell.

The HS can not dwell where sin is.. so the HS can not dwell until we are born again, meaning our sin must be purged..

How is this done without God baptizing us into Christ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have to ask whether or not we think we are walking in the Spirit when we are not. I've learned to "accept no substitutes". Walking in the Spirit means enjoying the Spirit's fruit,

Galatians 5:22-24 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Either this is all true of me or it's not, and if it's not, I'm not walking in the Spirit. I don't think the Spirit's fruit "grows" in our lives, I think the Spirit's fruit is either seen or not seen. If I'm walking in the Spirit I have His Love, His patience, His faithfulness, His self-control, all of these.

But to consistently walk in the Spirit?

If we are not walking in the Spirit in this moment, what do we do so that we will be in the next moment?

I believe that walking in the Spirit is what we do except when we are not. That may sound like a tautology, but what I mean is that as a child of God, our default state is to live in His holiness. And I believe we would fully and completely do so except that we have a terrestrial existence in a body that was corrupted by sin, and as such produced a mind corrupted by sin. And the reason we don't consistently live righteous and holy is that this corrupt flesh intrudes and pulls us off course, back into it's ways, until such a time as we come to our senses and return to Spirit life.

I see this taught in passages such as Galatians 5, Ephesians 4, Colossians 3, Romans 7.

I think the biggest killer of Spirit life in the Christian is a sense of condemnation. When we believe we are again condemned by God for our sins, how do we then open our broken and vulnerable hearts to the one we believe condemns us? But when we understand the fulness of our reconcilation to Him, His unending love for us, His commitment to us, to me, then I am open and trusting to receive from Him the power of His Spirit to walk in His Way.

I've come to realize that much of the time I'd have previously said I was "walking in the Spirit" was really more that I was having a better day. Being able to resist sins, doing things like praying and reading the Bible and going to church, helping around the house, whatever it is that says to each of us, This is good Godly living, that doesn't necessarily mean we are walking in the Spirit.

For myself, when I am walking in the Spirit, I don't really think about myself, only the most practical things. Otherwise, thoughts about myself are near 0. It's an interesting thing to me to think about what it looks like in my self when I am walking in the Spirit, but then again, this is very personal to each of us, and I don't want to become restrictive in some personal description, only to give voice to the idea that walking in the Spirit is something completely transcendant over our terrestrial sort of life.

So I just offer this up as a way to suggest we consider what is and is not "walking in the Spirit", and what it should include or not include, and whether we are, or perhaps not.

Much love!

Amen,

if we are not walking in the spirit we are walking in the flesh

 

[Hepzibah]

The HS can not dwell where sin is.. so the HS can not dwell until we are born again, meaning our sin must be purged..

How is this done without God baptizing us into Christ?

It is but not when people think it has.