Counterfeit Christianity

[Robert Pate]

Just because someone goes to church and carries a Bible with them does not mean that they are Christians. A counterfeit looks like the real thing, but it is not.

How can we tell the counterfeits from the real Christians? This is not an easy task. I have known church members for years believing that they were dedicated Christians, only to find out that they were counterfeits. There are certain basic beliefs that can help one to determine whether or not one is a Christian or a counterfeit.

1. A Christian that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit will readily confess that they are a sinner, desperately in need of a savior, 1 John 1:8.

2. The belief that Jesus is the Godman and is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17 also John 8:24. Satan also believes that Jesus is the Godman and trembles.

3. The belief that Jesus has justified, sanctified and redeemed them, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and that they are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

The main thing is where is their faith? What are they trusting in? I had a friend that was a Lutheran. I was talking to him about Christ when he said, "You don't have to be concerned about my salvation. I have been confirmed by the Lutheran church". This is a good example of someone that is trusting in their confirmation to save them. Many are trusting is something other than Christ to save them, like their religion.

Jesus said, Not everyone that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of the Father, which is in heaven, Matthew 7:21.

The will of the Father is that we trust in his Son Jesus Christ for our salvation, plus nothing.

"Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied (preached) in your name and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:22.

Here is a group of people that are calling Jesus "Lord" and doing good works, yet they are not Christians, they are counterfeits. They thought that they were Christians, after all isn't that what Christians do? There is something wrong here, what is it? What is missing? What is missing is that they didn't have faith in Christ and his Gospel. They had works, but they didn't have faith.

What did Jesus say to these counterfeits? He said, "I never knew you: depart from me you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:23. Jesus never knew them because they had never called on Jesus to save them, Romans 10:13. Instead they were trusting in their good works to save them.

 

[Pearl]

A Christian that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit will readily confess that they are a sinner, desperately in need of a savior, 1 John 1:8.

A Christian already has that Saviour and constantly confessing sin does not make any difference. Since we became born again the bible calls the followers of Jesus saints not sinners.

Rom 15:26
For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are in Jerusalem.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Just because someone goes to church and carries a Bible with them does not mean that they are Christians. A counterfeit looks like the real thing, but it is not.

How can we tell the counterfeits from the real Christians? This is not an easy task. I have known church members for years believing that they were dedicated Christians, only to find out that they were counterfeits. There are certain basic beliefs that can help one to determine whether or not one is a Christian or a counterfeit.

1. A Christian that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit will readily confess that they are a sinner, desperately in need of a savior, 1 John 1:8.

2. The belief that Jesus is the Godman and is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17 also John 8:24. Satan also believes that Jesus is the Godman and trembles.

3. The belief that Jesus has justified, sanctified and redeemed them, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and that they are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

The main thing is where is their faith? What are they trusting in? I had a friend that was a Lutheran. I was talking to him about Christ when he said, "You don't have to be concerned about my salvation. I have been confirmed by the Lutheran church". This is a good example of someone that is trusting in their confirmation to save them. Many are trusting is something other than Christ to save them, like their religion.

Jesus said, Not everyone that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of the Father, which is in heaven, Matthew 7:21.

The will of the Father is that we trust in his Son Jesus Christ for our salvation, plus nothing.

"Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied (preached) in your name and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:22.

Here is a group of people that are calling Jesus "Lord" and doing good works, yet they are not Christians, they are counterfeits. They thought that they were Christians, after all isn't that what Christians do? There is something wrong here, what is it? What is missing? What is missing is that they didn't have faith in Christ and his Gospel. They had works, but they didn't have faith.

What did Jesus say to these counterfeits? He said, "I never knew you: depart from me you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:23. Jesus never knew them because they had never called on Jesus to save them, Romans 10:13. Instead they were trusting in their good works to save them.

This is a really good question, and I think you've covered some of the essentials. But I will just sort of give you my take on it. Christians are all "nominally" Christian--that is, they hold to some of the teachings that would characterize them as "Christian."

This is in contrast to Christian "salvation." Not all nominally Christian people are saved. I think you were suggesting that, rightfully.

I would add that this would include reform and revivalist Christians who belong to Christian movements in the past that are associated with getting nominal Christians back to true Salvation. Catholic reformers, the Protestant Reformation, Methodism, Pentecostalism, and a whole host of such movements tried to get at the very thing you're talking about. But those who are allied with these movements, nominally, does not mean they are saved.

A "good Baptist" may be associated with fundamental Christian doctrine, preach the Gospel, and call for others to be saved without himself being saved! There are in fact Elmer Gantry-type ministers out there, who preach because it seems effective even though they may doubt some of what they are preaching.

Or perhaps they even believe what they are preaching, but cannot quite choose to live up to true Christian standards. Like the Pharisees they preach but do not do what they preach.

For me personally, I do recognize nominal Christians as "Christian" simply because they hold to Christian teaching. But judging whether they are actually saved is a matter of spiritual discernment. They may even carry the Spirit of Christ and still not be saved. They may obey some of the works of Christian love without completely committing themselves to that love in their heart.

It's really the difference between a total commitment or a partial commitment. A total commitment results in a new birth, replete with evidence of the same. It is a Christian character, as opposed to periodic Christian works. When a person exudes Christ to such an extent that it is part of his character, I would say he is genuine.

But then even after that, a truly saved Christian needs to be monitored to see if that commitment is continuing. A backslidden Christian is dangerous, both in the way of tempting other Christians and in respect to the reputation of Christians in the world generally.

 

[Robert Pate]

A Christian already has that Saviour and constantly confessing sin does not make any difference. Since we became born again the bible calls the followers of Jesus saints not sinners.

Rom 15:26
For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are in Jerusalem.

Christians are both sinners and saints at the same time. A sinner is someone that has or is breaking God's law. The law is the nature and character of God. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Spiritually, God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 3:10. Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

 

[Pearl]

Christians are both sinners and saints at the same time. A sinner is someone that has or is breaking God's law. The law is the nature and character of God. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Spiritually, God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 3:10. Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

I was a sinner till I came to Jesus and now I am not a sinner but a saint. I am a daughter of God. If I was still a sinner God would not accept me. He calls sinners to come to Jesus and once they do and repent and believe they are no longer sinners.

It is a shame really that born again Christians still believe they are sinners. It holds them back from fulfilling their potential.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is a really good question, and I think you've covered some of the essentials. But I will just sort of give you my take on it. Christians are all "nominally" Christian--that is, they hold to some of the teachings that would characterize them as "Christian."

This is in contrast to Christian "salvation." Not all nominally Christian people are saved. I think you were suggesting that, rightfully.

I would add that this would include reform and revivalist Christians who belong to Christian movements in the past that are associated with getting nominal Christians back to true Salvation. Catholic reformers, the Protestant Reformation, Methodism, Pentecostalism, and a whole host of such movements tried to get at the very thing you're talking about. But those who are allied with these movements, nominally, does not mean they are saved.

A "good Baptist" may be associated with fundamental Christian doctrine, preach the Gospel, and call for others to be saved without himself being saved! There are in fact Elmer Gantry-type ministers out there, who preach because it seems effective even though they may doubt some of what they are preaching.

Or perhaps they even believe what they are preaching, but cannot quite choose to live up to true Christian standards. Like the Pharisees they preach but do not do what they preach.

For me personally, I do recognize nominal Christians as "Christian" simply because they hold to Christian teaching. But judging whether they are actually saved is a matter of spiritual discernment. They may even carry the Spirit of Christ and still not be saved. They may obey some of the works of Christian love without completely committing themselves to that love in their heart.

It's really the difference between a total commitment or a partial commitment. A total commitment results in a new birth, replete with evidence of the same. It is a Christian character, as opposed to periodic Christian works. When a person exudes Christ to such an extent that it is part of his character, I would say he is genuine.

But then even after that, a truly saved Christian needs to be monitored to see if that commitment is continuing. A backslidden Christian is dangerous, both in the way of tempting other Christians and in respect to the reputation of Christians in the world generally.

As usual, you believe that commitment, works, obedience is the sign of a born-again Christian. More than likely you will be in the Lord, Lord didn't we group". One of the most important words in the Bible is "Faith". No one will enter heaven without faith in Jesus and his Gospel. Listen to what Paul is saying to the Galatians that were trying to be good enough to be saved, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

 

[Robert Pate]

I was a sinner till I came to Jesus and now I am not a sinner but a saint. I am a daughter of God. If I was still a sinner God would not accept me. He calls sinners to come to Jesus and once they do and repent and believe they are no longer sinners.

It is a shame really that born again Christians still believe they are sinners. It holds them back from fulfilling their potential.

Anything less than absolute and perfect obedience to God's law is sin. If you fail in one part of the law you have failed the whole thing, James 2:10. God's Holy Law is spiritual, it searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin? Tell me that you don't gossip about your friends and your neighbors. The Pharisees all thought that that could keep the law, they all went to hell. Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

 

[Pearl]

Anything less than absolute and perfect obedience to God's law is sin. If you fail in one part of the law you have failed the whole thing, James 2:10. God's Holy Law is spiritual, it searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Are all of your thoughts pure and without sin? Tell me that you don't gossip about your friends and your neighbors. The Pharisees all thought that that could keep the law, they all went to hell. Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

I am freed from the law, freed by Jesus.

 

[Randy Kluth]

As usual, you believe that commitment, works, obedience is the sign of a born-again Christian. More than likely you will be in the Lord, Lord didn't we group". One of the most important words in the Bible is "Faith". No one will enter heaven without faith in Jesus and his Gospel. Listen to what Paul is saying to the Galatians that were trying to be good enough to be saved, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

And as usual, brother, you do not or can not define "faith" as applied to this discussion. Faith in Christ and in what he represents does not always translate into a New Birth or to a consistent Christian character. Even the devils believe, and tremble, right? Not everybody who says "Lord, Lord" is saved, right?

So you simply have to define "Faith" if you're going to say it has positively saved someone. If that Faith does not translate into a New Character, which I call the "New Birth," then that Faith is pure Head Knowledge and has not regenerated anybody!

Incidentally, I made my statements above in order to largely agree with you, and not to bring up a previous disagreement. But I suppose our theology, if expressed in one place, is going to be expressed in another place, whatever our intentions are?

 

[Robert Pate]

I am freed from the law, freed by Jesus.

As long as you are here on this sinful planet in your unredeemed Adamic body you are a sinner, Romans 8:23. I hope that you are not telling people that you don't sin. Yes, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4. But not yet. You are trying to bring the "not yet" into the now. We have not been totally sanctified yet. Spiritually, yes. Physically, no.

 

[Robert Pate]

And as usual, brother, you do not or can not define "faith" as applied to this discussion. Faith in Christ and in what he represents does not always translate into a New Birth or to a consistent Christian character. Even the devils believe, and tremble, right? Not everybody who says "Lord, Lord" is saved, right?

So you simply have to define "Faith" if you're going to say it has positively saved someone. If that Faith does not translate into a New Character, which I call the "New Birth," then that Faith is pure Head Knowledge and has not regenerated anybody!

Incidentally, I made my statements above in order to largely agree with you, and not to bring up a previous disagreement. But I suppose our theology, if expressed in one place, is going to be expressed in another place, whatever our intentions are?

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit which changes our lives and makes us new creations in Jesus Christ is faith in Christ and his Gospel. All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. This will be evidenced by good works and the Christian life. It is all of God, Ephesians 2:10.

 

[St. SteVen]

Since we became born again the bible calls the followers of Jesus saints not sinners. ...

It is a shame really that born again Christians still believe they are sinners. It holds them back from fulfilling their potential.

AMEN.
Our identity in Christ is a VERY important aspect that we need to confess positively!
Thanks for your post!

Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

/

 

[Robert Pate]

AMEN.
Our identity in Christ is a VERY important aspect that we need to confess positively!
Thanks for your post!

Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

/

The reason that Christians are not taken up into heaven when they first trust in Christ is so that we can remain here on this earth and be a witness to those that are lost. You will not win many people to Christ if you tell people that you are now righteous. They will see right through your hypocrisy. Ephesians 2:6-7 is spiritual. If the apostle Paul confessed that he was a sinner, 1 Timothy 1:15, then what makes you think that you are without sin?

 

[St. SteVen]

The reason that Christians are not taken up into heaven when they first trust in Christ is so that we can remain here on this earth and be a witness to those that are lost. You will not win many people to Christ if you tell people that you are now righteous. They will see right through your hypocrisy. Ephesians 2:6-7 is spiritual. If the apostle Paul confessed that he was a sinner, 1 Timothy 1:15, then what makes you think that you are without sin?

Nonsense.
This says WE ARE seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. Not that we WILL be.

Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

/

 

[Robert Pate]

Nonsense.
This says WE ARE seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. Not that we WILL be.

Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

/

Ephesians 2:6-7 is 100% spiritual. You are still here on this sinful planet in your sinful unredeemed Adamic body, Romans 8:23. Paul said,
"We are waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body".

We have not arrived yet, We need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

 

[St. SteVen]

We have not arrived yet, We need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

This speaks of our identity in Christ in the here and now. The phrase "raised us up" is past tense. Done deal.

Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit which changes our lives and makes us new creations in Jesus Christ is faith in Christ and his Gospel. All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. This will be evidenced by good works and the Christian life. It is all of God, Ephesians 2:10.

I don't agree with what you said on its face. Not everyone who puts their faith in Christ persevere in that commitment. They don't follow through by casting their entire trust in Christ or emptying themselves of their own efforts at self-justification.

Only when the choice for faith results in fully accepting the object of their faith--Christ will they become Born Again. Their character is completely changed when they divest themselves of themselves and their own efforts, choosing to completely cast their cares on him.

In order to fully receive the New Nature that comes from Christ we must cast off the Old Nature of Self-Will and Sin. To transfer our allegiance from our own Self-Will to Christ's Will we must expressly deny the Flesh and admit the need for "Christ alone." That is what Saving Faith really is--certainly not just "belief," which is an intellectual construct without the necessary spiritual values involved in true conversion.

 

[Robert Pate]

This speaks of our identity in Christ in the here and now. The phrase "raised us up" is past tense. Done deal.

Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

I don't know about you, but I am still here on this earth in my unredeemed Adamic body that is prone to sin, Romans 8:23. Like Paul, I am waiting for Jesus to return and deliver me from this body of death. In Adam all die, but in Christ all will be made alive. I am looking forward to receiving my new body. It must be wonderful that you have already experienced the resurrection.

 

[Robert Pate]

I don't agree with what you said on its face. Not everyone who puts their faith in Christ persevere in that commitment. They don't follow through by casting their entire trust in Christ or emptying themselves of their own efforts at self-justification.

Only when the choice for faith results in fully accepting the object of their faith--Christ will they become Born Again. Their character is completely changed when they divest themselves of themselves and their own efforts, choosing to completely cast their cares on him.

In order to fully receive the New Nature that comes from Christ we must cast off the Old Nature of Self-Will and Sin. To transfer our allegiance from our own Self-Will to Christ's Will we must expressly deny the Flesh and admit the need for "Christ alone." That is what Saving Faith really is--certainly not just "belief," which is an intellectual construct without the necessary spiritual values involved in true conversion.

You are denial of the work of the Holy Spirit. No one is totally changed when they become Christians. The Old Adamic nature is still present, subdued, but not annihilated. We are still sinners saved by grace. Paul wrestled with sin, Romans 7:7-25. Salvation is by faith alone, because it is by Christ alone.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are denial of the work of the Holy Spirit. No one is totally changed when they become Christians. The Old Adamic nature is still present, subdued, but not annihilated. We are still sinners saved by grace. Paul wrestled with sin, Romans 7:7-25. Salvation is by faith alone, because it is by Christ alone.

I agree that the Old Adamic nature is still present--I never said otherwise. When we choose Christ, as opposed to the will of our Carnal Nature, that is "Faith" defined. Faith is to believe in Christ as the right path, as the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

When I say that we must choose to completely change our nature from the Flesh to Christ, I'm not saying we must be perfect. Rather, I'm saying we must *choose* perfection. And we must make a fully genuine commitment, and not be double-minded about it.

That's what happens when we choose Christ in a full commitment. We choose to exchange our Fallen Nature for Christ's Nature. We may choose that but of course, that does not mean we live our new lives out perfectly. The idea is that in choosing a New Nature in Christ we are able to actually get a New Nature, by grace, and continue to live according to that New Nature, even if imperfectly.